21 replies to this topic

[Phish]

As anyone who plays the game may have noticed, our original base stat gems have lost alot of theire usefulness after the the gem update (and to a lesser extent orlo ch 1).

That is, Rubies and Garnets are a lousy alternative to jades, pink opals or diamonds.

Topazes, are only used for support cleric's healing and buffing (but the amount is negligible).

Sapphires are used for crafting (although these actually aren't bad for dealers to fight in).

Emeralds are only used in sen crafting.



My proposal is to not necessarily increase the amount of said stat the gem will give, but increase the amount the stat itself is. There was a thread I originally posted this is on the old forums.

Anyway, the current stats are as follows:

Str: .33 defense, 2 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit
Int: .67 magic defense, 4 mp
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent)


What I propose to change would be something such as this:


Str: .075% defense**** , 4 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge, .4 movement speed *
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit, 1 hp recovery, .5 mp recovery **
Int: .075% magic defense ****, 6 mp Increased effect on buffs ***
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent), .1 attack speed


* In Irose Dex raised mspeed, also for the many people that propose it, this will indirectly make the hawker class faster wothout changing their skills. (400 dex

** In Irose Con effected recovery rates, and if other stats get updated to become more sought after con should as well.

*** See this thread: http://forums.warppo...ffect-on-buffs/


**** The terribly low rate of defense and magic defense gained for stat points combined with the diminishing return of defense and magic defense scaling make the gain complete unnoticeable. By making the amount per point a (very) small percentage, it will scale more proportionatly the more you add and make the gain of adding these stats actually noticeable.
For example adding 100 points into strength will give you 7.5% more defense, which will actually make a difference compared to the current linear 33 points of defense. A max level character could have anywhere between 3k and 15k+ defense depending on the class and gear, 33 points of defense will do absolutely nothing.



Also, another reason to why the base stat gems are inferior to the raw stat gems is because the base stat gems, only take a value from your base, not total stat.

In other words, Garnet, Ruby, Sapphire, Topaz, Emerald, Beryl Peridot, should take a percent from your total stat. Ie if I have 400 con, right now if I use 3 sapphire 7's it would give me 42 con each, totalling 526 con. However if this change is made I will instead have 538 con.



Peridot's also have this problem where the higher your base stat is, the lesser the effect the gem will give. For example, if I have high enough attack speed, using d7's will deal more damage per second meleeing than peridots would due to the fact that they increase your attack power by it's current stat and not it's base.

A suggestion I would propose for peridots would be something along the lines of:

Peridot 7: 5% base aspeed + 5% current aspeed

Ie: if I have 100% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give me 110.3% aspeed (100 + 5% x 1.05).
If I have 200% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give 215.3%
If I have 300% aspeed (good luck getting this much without gems) a peridot 7 will now give 320.3%.


The rest of the gems could look something like:

Peridot 1: 1.2%
Peridot 2: 2.5%
Peridot 3: 3% base + 1% current
Peridot 4: 3.5% base + 2% current
Peridot 5: 4% base + 3% current
Peridot 6: 4.5% base + 4% current
Peridot 7: 5% base + 5% current


These adjustments would still leave the raw stat gems giving the highest if the specific stat (Diamond, Jade, Pink Opal etc.) However they will leave the original lesser statted gems useful in their mixed stats (more than now) as well.


These improved adjustments not only make more gems desireable, but give people more variety towards skill builds also.



EDIT: Made a change to Str and Int.

Edited by Phish, 25 March 2011 - 08:00 PM.

[angrynull]

As anyone who plays the game may have noticed, our original base stat gems have lost alot of theire usefulness after the the gem update (and to a lesser extent orlo ch 1).

That is, Rubies and Garnets are a lousy alternative to jades, pink opals or diamonds.

Topazes, are only used for support cleric's healing and buffing (but the amount is negligible).

Sapphires are used for crafting (although these actually aren't bad for dealers to fight in).

Emeralds are only used in sen crafting.



My proposal is to not necessarily increase the amount of said stat the gem will give, but increase the amount the stat itself is. There was a thread I originally posted this is on the old forums.

Anyway, the current stats are as follows:

Str: .33 defense, 2 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit
Int: .67 magic defense, 4 mp
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent)


What I propose to change would be something such as this:


Str: 1 defense, 4 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge, .4 movement speed *
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit, 1 hp recovery, 1 mp recovery **
Int: 2 magic defense, 6 mp Increased effect on buffs ***
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent), .1 attack speed


* In Irose Dex raised mspeed, also for the many people that propose it, this will indirectly make the hawker class faster wothout changing their skills. (400 dex

** In Irose Con effected recovery rates, and if other stats get updated to become more sought after con should as well.

*** See this thread: http://forums.warppo...ffect-on-buffs/


Also, another reason to why the base stat gems are inferior to the raw stat gems is because the base stat gems, only take a value from your base, not total stat.

In other words, Garnet, Ruby, Sapphire, Topaz, Emerald, Beryl Peridot, should take a percent from your total stat. Ie if I have 400 con, right now if I use 3 sapphire 7's it would give me 42 con each, totalling 526 con. However if this change is made I will instead have 538 con.



Peridot's also have this problem where the higher your base stat is, the lesser the effect the gem will give. For example, if I have high enough attack speed, using d7's will deal more damage per second meleeing than peridots would due to the fact that they increase your attack power by it's current stat and not it's base.

A suggestion I would propose for peridots would be something along the lines of:

Peridot 7: 5% base aspeed + 5% current aspeed

Ie: if I have 100% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give me 110.3% aspeed (100 + 5% x 1.05).
If I have 200% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give 215.3%
If I have 300% aspeed (good luck getting this much without gems) a peridot 7 will now give 320.3%.


The rest of the gems could look something like:

Peridot 1: 1.2%
Peridot 2: 2.5%
Peridot 3: 3% base + 1% current
Peridot 4: 3.5% base + 2% current
Peridot 5: 4% base + 3% current
Peridot 6: 4.5% base + 4% current
Peridot 7: 5% base + 5% current


These adjustments would still leave the raw stat gems giving the highest if the specific stat (Diamond, Jade, Pink Opal etc.) However they will leave the original lesser statted gems useful in their mixed stats (more than now) as well.


These improved adjustments not only make more gems desireable, but give people more variety towards skill builds also.

I agree: there needs to be more variety and this is a good idea for a step in that direction.

[DestinyDeoxys]

Peridot's also have this problem where the higher your base stat is, the lesser the effect the gem will give. For example, if I have high enough attack speed, using d7's will deal more damage per second meleeing than peridots would due to the fact that they increase your attack power by it's current stat and not it's base.

I have this feeling too, like if your current AP is high enough, those D7 will work out too good. Especially when everyone has (15) weapons now. Where the P7 are bound to affect your character attack speed with respect to the base attack speed the Weapon Speed :Fast +2 thing. But I think they should rework on how Attack Power multiply out, may be they should make those % AP from gems calculated with respect to the weapon power only? And ignore the AP stat on hat, glove, vest, shoe, back item, mask, accessory. Let these become solid attack power alone.

So now, we have Garnet and Ruby completely useless due to Diamond, Item mall enchanted stones. For garnet, like you've mentioned, give it back the mspeed bonus in iRose. And if Diamond get some changes, I guess Ruby would not be so bad. But I don't think it will work if the Item mall enchanted stones are still there.

See this game still has a lot of problem yet to be fixed, kinda sad.

[paLDube]

yea i saw this in old forums. ..hope they implement it.. . .



and charm should give a little attention.. .

[Blitzkrieg]

Also, another reason to why the base stat gems are inferior to the raw stat gems is because the base stat gems, only take a value from your base, not total stat.

In other words, Garnet, Ruby, Sapphire, Topaz, Emerald, Beryl Peridot, should take a percent from your total stat. Ie if I have 400 con, right now if I use 3 sapphire 7's it would give me 42 con each, totalling 526 con. However if this change is made I will instead have 538 con.

I DIDNT GET THIS PART....please elaborate...thank u




variety

ahh finally a word was looking forward to in RoSE

+1
no doubt whatsoever

i wud request a reduce in gem drop rates then

[Phish]

I have this feeling too, like if your current AP is high enough, those D7 will work out too good. Especially when everyone has (15) weapons now. Where the P7 are bound to affect your character attack speed with respect to the base attack speed the Weapon Speed :Fast +2 thing. But I think they should rework on how Attack Power multiply out, may be they should make those % AP from gems calculated with respect to the weapon power only? And ignore the AP stat on hat, glove, vest, shoe, back item, mask, accessory. Let these become solid attack power alone.

So now, we have Garnet and Ruby completely useless due to Diamond, Item mall enchanted stones. For garnet, like you've mentioned, give it back the mspeed bonus in iRose. And if Diamond get some changes, I guess Ruby would not be so bad. But I don't think it will work if the Item mall enchanted stones are still there.

See this game still has a lot of problem yet to be fixed, kinda sad.

I don't know if they could make diamonds only give a percent of your weapons power only, I think that might nerf them a bit much though since alot of ap comes from gears as well. These changes would make the enchanted stones better too but they are still hardly used to so I don't think it would matter (look at how low the prices of enchanted non sagi stones are, garnets and rubies sell for alot more even if they aren't any better.)

+1
no doubt whatsoever

i wud request a reduce in gem drop rates then

Since the gems would be applied to your current stat it would be:

400 con + (10 + 8%) = 443 con + (10 + 8%) = 489 con + (10 + 8%) = 539 Con

[Soda]

In other words, Garnet, Ruby, Sapphire, Topaz, Emerald, Beryl Peridot, should take a percent from your total stat. Ie if I have 400 con, right now if I use 3 sapphire 7's it would give me 42 con each, totalling 526 con. However if this change is made I will instead have 538 con.

ME LIKE IT +1

[twitch]

i dont think dex should be 4 mvspd tho i like everything else (maybe 2mvspd each dex) the reason why is because then a raider get 1600 w/o any mvspd passives/gear/buff but 2 would be fine especially taking in mind that champs are like 40k mvspd quicker then any class right now (this also would help mages/clerics if they wanna use a bit of stat points for some mvspd)

[DoubleRose]

dex is supposed to give movement speed, maybe just one or two. it's total bull that champs are 40% faster than scouts/raiders who are supposed to be the fastest class.

edit- I also like the change to con and sen. In fact, every one of these ideas should be implemented!

+1

Edited by DoubleRose, 20 January 2011 - 01:39 PM.

[shibby]

your ideas are always pretty well thought out. i hope they pay attention to this.

[twitch]

dex is supposed to give movement speed, maybe just one or two. it's total bull that champs are 40% faster than scouts/raiders who are supposed to be the fastest class.

nah 1 mvspd would be to little compared to champs right now,2 mvspd currently and IF and once they nerf champs then they nerf dex to 1mvspd.

[Phish]

i dont think dex should be 4 mvspd tho i like everything else (maybe 2mvspd each dex) the reason why is because then a raider get 1600 w/o any mvspd passives/gear/buff but 2 would be fine especially taking in mind that champs are like 40k mvspd quicker then any class right now (this also would help mages/clerics if they wanna use a bit of stat points for some mvspd)

It's .4 mspeed. Anything higher I think would be excessive since there are also alot of gear that increases mspeed.


I changed con's mp recovery to .5, 1 may be a little too much (a dealer recovering 400 mp + whatever they would normally recover is a but much.)


I appreciate the feedback.

Edited by Phish, 20 January 2011 - 01:46 PM.

[DoubleRose]

nah 1 mvspd would be to little compared to champs right now,2 mvspd currently and IF and once they nerf champs then they nerf dex to 1mvspd.

They could do dex = 1 m-speed if they upped rapid twitch to 60%+ instead of 50%. (don't forget, champs get attack from dex so I'm assuming champs would get plenty of dex if it gave m-speed too) Also, champs would be nerfed a lot attack wise if DestinyDeoxys's suggestion was added along with these proposed changes.

[twitch]

It's .4 mspeed. Anything higher I think would be excessive since there are also alot of gear that increases mspeed.


I changed con's mp recovery to .5, 1 may be a little too much (a dealer recovering 400 mp + whatever they would normally recover is a but much.)


I appreciate the feedback.

i didnt say higher i said lower i said i disagree making it 1dex=4 i rather have it 1dex=2movement speed.

[twitch]

They could do dex = 1 m-speed if they upped rapid twitch to 60%+ instead of 50%. (don't forget, champs get attack from dex so I'm assuming champs would get plenty of dex if it gave m-speed too) Also, champs would be nerfed a lot attack wise if DestinyDeoxys's suggestion was added along with these proposed changes.

nah i dont think raiders should get any faster then the dex=movement speed thing just they need to nerf champs because if you try to make raiders faster then champs (at what they are currently) your just gonna get the other classes at huge disadvantages.

[Lybis]

Completely agree, I've said for ages that the gems need and update to make the useless ones more interesting and worth using again! I think this would be a great way to do so!

[AlisiaMT]

+1 & 5 stars lol. Hope it gets some attention paid to it

[twitch]

+1 & 5 stars lol. Hope it gets some attention paid to it

Great minds think alike

[DestinyDeoxys]

Hm...we have these gems and let's see what they got.


Diagnostic :

Garnet - whoever needs DEX as main also needs STR/CON/INT, in other words you are better off using Item Mall Enchanted Stones
Ruby - whoever needs STR as main also needs CON/DEX, better use Item Mall Enchanted Stones
Sapphire - only for crafting purpose, for fighting purpose you are better off using Item Mall Enchanted Stones
Topaz - all clerics need them which is good, let's not mess it up again
Emerald - only for crafting purpose, SEN is nerfed bad way back in Orlo update
Peridot - buffsets effect removed, so demand goes down plus the marginal return diminishes as you add more and more peridot
Diamond - highest demand gem in game currently
Pink Opal - it helps a bit in buffsets purpose
Amethyst - nerfed bad some updates ago, due to HP cap bugged for ages
Turquoise - it will never come in handy until the day they decide to make MP bar as a last resort HP bar for clerics/mages
Tanzanite - used to be slightly useful before Orlo update, but after that critical hits get nerfed
Opal - rich knights gotta have them in inventory, but overall nobody needs them
Zircon - it's bugged doesn't do anything currently
Quartz - it's bugged doesn't do anything currently
Moonstone - everybody needs this for buffsets purpose
Beryl - I seriously think CHARM stat should be removed from this game completely
Sunstone - worthless gem before Orlo update and even worthless after
StarAgate - alternative to Diamond, good stuff good stuff
StarQuartz - better than Garnet in most case, hawkers, clerics, knights, bourgeois can utilize this, good stuff good stuff



Summary :

Diamond don't need a nerf in my opinion, it doesn't help as much as ppl think. What we need is some adjustment and improvements to some neglected gems, such as Amethyst, Tanzanite and Peridot. They just need a simple digit enlargement fix.

Others need to be changed completely, such as Garnet, Ruby, Turquoise, SunStone and Beryl

And we have to nerf Item Mall Enchanted stones slightly, otherwise it won't work. If anything, we could just open the new gem cap for the main stat gem ( R,G,S,T,E,B ) to level 9 to compensate IM gems since we have 9 levels for gem cutting anyways.

Zircon and Quartz are bugged, they are not functioning and needs to be fixed.

Everything the original post mentioned about the changes to STR/DEX/CON/INT sounds very good to me, a simple fix to Sunstone, since I'm sure nobody use this gem, changing it won't affect any people.

Sunstone [1] = +1.0m melee attack distance
Sunstone [2] = +1.5m melee attack distance
Sunstone [3] = +2.0m melee attack distance
Sunstone [4] = +2.5m melee attack distance
Sunstone [5] = +3.0m melee attack distance
Sunstone [6] = +3.5m melee attack distance
Sunstone [7] = +4.0m melee attack distance

Note: only apply to melee attack not skill attack distance, so if a wand has 21m attack distance it will have 41m attack distance if you equipped five Sunstone [7]. Not that overpower, since there is no buffset effects here and you need to give up your fighting gems for such thing.

Don't forget we are still waiting for a different gem color glow for different gems implemented, someone post it before WarpPortal started, and I couldn't find it.

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 11 July 2011 - 06:11 PM.

[Cloudius]

As anyone who plays the game may have noticed, our original base stat gems have lost alot of theire usefulness after the the gem update (and to a lesser extent orlo ch 1).

That is, Rubies and Garnets are a lousy alternative to jades, pink opals or diamonds.

Topazes, are only used for support cleric's healing and buffing (but the amount is negligible).

Sapphires are used for crafting (although these actually aren't bad for dealers to fight in).

Emeralds are only used in sen crafting.



My proposal is to not necessarily increase the amount of said stat the gem will give, but increase the amount the stat itself is. There was a thread I originally posted this is on the old forums.

Anyway, the current stats are as follows:

Str: .33 defense, 2 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit
Int: .67 magic defense, 4 mp
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent)


What I propose to change would be something such as this:


Str: .075% defense**** , 4 hp, 6 inventory capacity
Dex: 1.25 dodge, .4 movement speed *
Con: 1.25 accuracy, .2 crit, 1 hp recovery, .5 mp recovery **
Int: .075% magic defense ****, 6 mp Increased effect on buffs ***
Sen: 1 crit (also reduces the rate which you receive crits, although I do not know the extent), .1 attack speed


* In Irose Dex raised mspeed, also for the many people that propose it, this will indirectly make the hawker class faster wothout changing their skills. (400 dex

** In Irose Con effected recovery rates, and if other stats get updated to become more sought after con should as well.

*** See this thread: http://forums.warppo...ffect-on-buffs/


**** The terribly low rate of defense and magic defense gained for stat points combined with the diminishing return of defense and magic defense scaling make the gain complete unnoticeable. By making the amount per point a (very) small percentage, it will scale more proportionatly the more you add and make the gain of adding these stats actually noticeable.
For example adding 100 points into strength will give you 7.5% more defense, which will actually make a difference compared to the current linear 33 points of defense. A max level character could have anywhere between 3k and 15k+ defense depending on the class and gear, 33 points of defense will do absolutely nothing.



Also, another reason to why the base stat gems are inferior to the raw stat gems is because the base stat gems, only take a value from your base, not total stat.

In other words, Garnet, Ruby, Sapphire, Topaz, Emerald, Beryl Peridot, should take a percent from your total stat. Ie if I have 400 con, right now if I use 3 sapphire 7's it would give me 42 con each, totalling 526 con. However if this change is made I will instead have 538 con.



Peridot's also have this problem where the higher your base stat is, the lesser the effect the gem will give. For example, if I have high enough attack speed, using d7's will deal more damage per second meleeing than peridots would due to the fact that they increase your attack power by it's current stat and not it's base.

A suggestion I would propose for peridots would be something along the lines of:

Peridot 7: 5% base aspeed + 5% current aspeed

Ie: if I have 100% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give me 110.3% aspeed (100 + 5% x 1.05).
If I have 200% aspeed, a peridot 7 will now give 215.3%
If I have 300% aspeed (good luck getting this much without gems) a peridot 7 will now give 320.3%.


The rest of the gems could look something like:

Peridot 1: 1.2%
Peridot 2: 2.5%
Peridot 3: 3% base + 1% current
Peridot 4: 3.5% base + 2% current
Peridot 5: 4% base + 3% current
Peridot 6: 4.5% base + 4% current
Peridot 7: 5% base + 5% current


These adjustments would still leave the raw stat gems giving the highest if the specific stat (Diamond, Jade, Pink Opal etc.) However they will leave the original lesser statted gems useful in their mixed stats (more than now) as well.


These improved adjustments not only make more gems desireable, but give people more variety towards skill builds also.



EDIT: Made a change to Str and Int.

Where's Charm?

[Phish]

Charm has been forgotten in the dust! I know, it needs something, just not sure what. Maybe actually increasing drop rate of rare items like the description says?

[Cloudius]

New and improved effects of Charm:
1) Ability to pet boss monsters due to excessive charm such as Executor Kera, Grandmaster Worm Shiz (forgot the name), and Choropy.
2) Ability to charm "Crune" for a 5% more success rate at refining
3) Ability to charm vendor NPC's for discounts

That's all folks.