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Clarification of the rules.


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#1 CaNehDa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:05 PM

From what I have been told by a popular player who uses AC's, Zeppelin , and another employee of Gravity is that auto clickers are "OK", as long as you are at your computer while using them. If it increases your enjoyment of the game or you have a injury/are prone to them you can use an autoclicker for crafting. I never asked about using AC's for leveling/farming. In most cases it seems people AFK while using them, but we do not always have a way to know this. They say if they find out you've been AFKING you are at the will of the GM who found you, and could be punished how they see fit. My question is: How do we find out they are AFKING, or just don't feel like talking, and how will the mods who can't spend much time most days in the game catch these people in time (by questioning them in a whisper or PM)...

In the case of ignoring Zulie Sellers, that's not doing much. They still sell their "sick" zulie to people, and those people who buy from them spread the Z's to other players, infecting them with sick zulies, making innocents a target for suspension/banning.



Now...

I know I posted a picture of me dropping several thousands of 1 zullies and I was told that it is infact a bannable offence.


The "rules" on the User Terms of Agreement states that use of an "illegal 3rd party bot" will slap you in the face with a ban; however this statement is NOT CLEAR. Illegal by the LAW'S standard? Or by "ROSE" standard...

Because if its by the LAW standard, using a macro to do what I did (droping thousands of 1 zullies) should be deemed aloud...

Now people that use a macro to AutoHeal themself while they Auto AOE and have someone else to pick up materials for them while they farm... That's my question... Is it legal?

Crafting? Using a macro to craft, Is this legal? Who sits there and clicks their mouse 1,998 times to craft one stack of buffpots, make that 22 thousand times for one stack of each buffpots....

IF it IS infact illegal; How can a moderator PROVE it unless someone ADMITS to it and someone provides screenshots and submits a ticket?






I'm sure it's not aloud... But I'm just not sure of how the Devs can stop, or punish those that do use auto buttonclicker / macro...

Fathermore; if it is aloud, how far can we go? Can we go so far as to create a macro to do Union Quests? Because someone could set up 3 computers running a macro to gather Union points all day, and by the end of the week they now have like 100 thousand union points... for what? buying union quest tickets and knowing how to program a macro... (yes I know how complicated it is to configure a macro to do union quests... but believe me, it's very much possible)
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#2 slinger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:08 PM

yea rules r kinda unclear to me

Edited by slinger, 09 June 2011 - 03:08 PM.

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#3 Genesis

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:23 PM

An "illegal 3rd party application" is one that allows you to carry out an action either once or multiple times with what we would consider as malicious intent or to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

Examples:

A macro which automatically drops zulie boxes repeatedly.

This is considered illegal as it is disruptive to the game play of others.


A macro which automatically crafts batches of potions.

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen as the application is running and is able to re-take control of their User Interface immediately, all other cases of this scenario are illegal.


A macro which casts a sequence of skills.

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen and that the macro or application requires the player to cast at least one skill per sequence and that the sequence is not repeated. All other cases of this scenario are illegal.


An application which automatically fights, moves, or buffs players based on a specific condition (being in range, text command, preset movement, etc).

This is considered illegal as it gives the player an unfair advantage over other players in that the character is able to perform combat/tactical/environment based actions with complete efficiency.


An application which controls the actions of multiple characters at the same time.

This is considered illegal as it gives the player an unfair advantage over other players in that the player is able to perform multiple actions at the same time with great efficiency that would otherwise not be possible for an individual player to do.

Edited by Genesis, 10 June 2011 - 08:53 AM.

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#4 MistahDi

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:24 PM

if i stil remember of wat Bertrand told me: automouseclick/autokeypresser = alowed / rest = not allowed

it has something to do with the information, that leaves ure computer to they'r Data Base, being changed.

if i don't make sense im sorry cause im not knowledgeable in that area :ani_meow:
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#5 PoopsMcgee

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:29 PM

Now...

I know I posted a picture of me dropping several thousands of 1 zullies and I was told that it is infact a bannable offence.


The "rules" on the User Terms of Agreement states that use of an "illegal 3rd party bot" will slap you in the face with a ban; however this statement is NOT CLEAR. Illegal by the LAW'S standard? Or by "ROSE" standard...

Because if its by the LAW standard, using a macro to do what I did (droping thousands of 1 zullies) should be deemed aloud...

Now people that use a macro to AutoHeal themself while they Auto AOE and have someone else to pick up materials for them while they farm... That's my question... Is it legal?

Crafting? Using a macro to craft, Is this legal? Who sits there and clicks their mouse 1,998 times to craft one stack of buffpots, make that 22 thousand times for one stack of each buffpots....

IF it IS infact illegal; How can a moderator PROVE it unless someone ADMITS to it and someone provides screenshots and submits a ticket?






I'm sure it's not aloud... But I'm just not sure of how the Devs can stop, or punish those that do use auto buttonclicker / macro...

Fathermore; if it is aloud, how far can we go? Can we go so far as to create a macro to do Union Quests? Because someone could set up 3 computers running a macro to gather Union points all day, and by the end of the week they now have like 100 thousand union points... for what? buying union quest tickets and knowing how to program a macro... (yes I know how complicated it is to configure a macro to do union quests... but believe me, it's very much possible)

I have asked Zep personally about using and autoclicker for crafting and was given the thumbs up. I am going to trust his word. Me? I don't use AC, most anything worth crafting for profit doesn't require an Auto clicker, and I don't farm or need to LVL up. Sure, the "terms" say that it is not allowed to use something such as a 3rd party program "autoclickers and so on", but when A CM tells me it is allowed personally and recently via forum email/pm/whatever you prefer to call it, I will believe them. It is obvious that it is allowed, well obvious in Leonis anyway. It is easy to figure out some who use an Auto clicker to craft, and they have remained unbanned for years. One particular person who's name I won't mention has been a big part of vending a near constant source of well priced potions for many many years. How do they do this? They buy the mats required and they use an autoclicker much of the time to make the potions. At times they will use their actual fingers, ouch!*Stiffness setting in...

You are not supposed to be AFK while using it, though. Doing so *can* result in punishment.

I am no computer genius, but I have my hunches that a simple autoclicker is much different than a homemade script that automate going inside and out uw on a schedule, doing quests over and over, and so on.

I do agree there needs to be more clarity on the subject. I had to ask in a PM and a ticket to get my answer.

Edited by PoopsMcgee, 09 June 2011 - 03:33 PM.

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#6 CaNehDa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:29 PM

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen as the application is running and is able to re-take control of their User Interface immediately, all other cases of this scenario are illegal.


So I CAN write a macro to do UW quests for me, but I have to remain at my computer while doing it?
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#7 Genesis

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:35 PM

So I CAN write a macro to do UW quests for me, but I have to remain at my computer while doing it?

No, as this would fall under the example of "An application which automatically fights or buffs players based on a specific condition (being in range, text command, etc).". You will be able to perform a combat based action (fighting or movement) with great efficiency which will unnaturally shorten the amount of time it takes to complete the quest.

Perhaps it would be better to group "combat actions" under a more general term of "environment actions"?

Edited by Genesis, 09 June 2011 - 03:36 PM.

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#8 slinger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:38 PM

So say im usin a auto clicker to fight but im on my computer talking :ani_meow: Lol
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#9 Genesis

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:42 PM

So say im usin a auto clicker to fight but im on my computer talking :ani_meow: Lol

This falls under "An application which automatically fights or buffs players based on a specific condition (being in range, text command, etc)."
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#10 CaNehDa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:42 PM

No, as this would fall under the example of "An application which automatically fights or buffs players based on a specific condition (being in range, text command, etc).". You will be able to perform a combat based action (fighting or movement) with great efficiency which will unnaturally shorten the amount of time it takes to complete the quest.

Perhaps it would be better to group "combat actions" under a more general term of "environment actions"?


I don't believe it would shorten the amount of time... It may- but I doubt that...

It would just make it so you don't get carpel tunnel XD

But I accept the fact its not aloud... I'll stop researching how to make an advanced macro anyway (I prob would have never figured it out anyway)

Edited by CaNehDa, 09 June 2011 - 03:43 PM.

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#11 AlisiaMT

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:52 PM

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen as the application is running and is able to re-take control of their User Interface immediately, all other cases of this scenario are illegal.

Genesis, I don't see how this differs from fighting a monster with a macro. The way I see it, when I craft it takes seconds for it to finish which is around 1/2 a sentence of typing for me before i have to click again. If i choose to finish my sentence that is one pot that i didn't get to craft. In a minute that is 60 pots that I didn't get to craft if i wasn't using a macro to do it for me. in 10 minutes thats 600 pots uncrafted.
After that many pots a normal person (or at least I) would just quit for the day, giving the economical benefits to the person that didn't do anything the entire time but talk to his/her friends while the macro did it all for him/her. So the person that didn't use the macro sells their 600 pots and the other one sells their 1200 pots. At 10k (low) a piece the person using a macro makes 6 mil more than the person that didn't use the macro.
To me this is a severe difference in "fair" for the game and would be "considered illegal as it gives the player an unfair advantage over other players in that the character is able to perform combat based actions craft with complete efficiency."
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#12 CaNehDa

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:44 PM

*shrug* a bunch of people had a fun time picking it up...

People had even more fun when I started dropping the 100k zullies :ani_meow:

Edited by gEddeh, 11 June 2011 - 01:05 AM.
Removal of quotation

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#13 Genesis

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:31 PM

Genesis, I don't see how this differs from fighting a monster with a macro. The way I see it, when I craft it takes seconds for it to finish which is around 1/2 a sentence of typing for me before i have to click again. If i choose to finish my sentence that is one pot that i didn't get to craft. In a minute that is 60 pots that I didn't get to craft if i wasn't using a macro to do it for me. in 10 minutes thats 600 pots uncrafted.
After that many pots a normal person (or at least I) would just quit for the day, giving the economical benefits to the person that didn't do anything the entire time but talk to his/her friends while the macro did it all for him/her. So the person that didn't use the macro sells their 600 pots and the other one sells their 1200 pots. At 10k (low) a piece the person using a macro makes 6 mil more than the person that didn't use the macro.
To me this is a severe difference in "fair" for the game and would be "considered illegal as it gives the player an unfair advantage over other players in that the character is able to perform combat based actions craft with complete efficiency."

The main difference in this case is that the efficiency is localized to the user interface and in a non combat scenario, any other situation would be deemed illegal.
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#14 Cracker

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 04:51 AM

I have done it crafting thousands of pots, cleaning dirties, opening thousands of boxes, buying stuff all night long and disassembling for mats and also used macros to target/kill mobs during ballroom events when people spawned the little guys inside and I was just too bored to run thru the gate 100 times. I could go on and on about the crap I pulled but honestly if you have to ask then you probably do not have the right intentions and lets be honest, an advanced macro you are looking for is really a bot which is a pretty big difference between the two. Now that I only log this game maybe 1-2 times every few months, the really should consdier just changing their policy on this and eliminating any doubt. Let me also point out the fact that the same thing I use to run simple little tasks ingame, I can also use to spam chat all night long if I wanted to. I think if you look at all the problems that people could do and compare it to the legal things they could do that it is not worth the hassle of trying to clarify anymore since most of the stuff is disruptive.

Combine all the information above with the bugs in the game that allow me to get a low level into a high level area and also allowing me to multiclient and I can honestly party myself, kill all the mobs, loot all the mobs on the low level and basically make money 24 hrs a days while throwing in happy hour events and an occassional drop medal. Without being able to lookup character profiles, it protects people from getting caught doing this as long as they dress up in IM clothing, you really have no way of proving there is a lowbie in prison except for the fact he doesnt draw any aggro from the mobs ever.
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#15 bluehell

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:03 AM

When I was lvling my champ recently, about half the people I ever partied with used bots. I was sitting there bored as heck, actually leveling, when they werent really doing crap. 1 in every 2 people these days use bots for literally everything. Ive seen some big names use bots, ones with a TON of zulie, and a TON of respect, but the thing is they used bots to help them get that money. In my views anyone who uses bots are complete wussie noobs who just suck at the game and need help with the game. And you shouldnt need help to be successful in this game, its a very easy game to be successful in. Yet, I consistently report people using bots, but what do I see happening? Absolutely nothing, they get temporarily banned for somewhere between 1day and 2 weeks. START PERMANENTLY BANNING PEOPLE THAT USE BOTS. I dont see anything wrong with crafting macros, cus omg, omg, omg crafting is quite honestly... the most boring thing in the game. Though, GM's you guys NEED to crack down on bots.
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#16 Cracker

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:27 AM

Make most areas PVP again and the problem is resolved. I think its the fact that you can't do anything about these guys that drive you insane. Make major cities non-pvp so you can use a crafting macro but all other maps should just be pvp and then you can wipe them out at will.

*Macro lovers gave me negative posts*
*Gimme more pls*
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#17 superhenk

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:28 AM

but what if you need to go to the toilet or something and dont want useless to the party so you put on bot and shut it down when you come back is this consider illegal to?
and if you make the whole world pvp it would be kind of impossible with all the pkers

Edited by superhenk, 10 June 2011 - 07:31 AM.

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#18 Bendersmom

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:54 AM

If you have doubts as to whether anything in game is allowed or not just stop and think about it a minute. Does it give you an unfair advantage? Then it is not allowed. At anytime, whether you have to go to the toilet or not, using a bot/macro/whatever while leveling, farming, fighting, etc is not allowed. Actually it seems like the only time it is allowed is for crafting pots and opening dirties basically. When you see people using an unfair advantage bug/glitch abuse, bot/macros, etc. report them. It is all you can do. But I agree, the GMs should be tougher about this.

At least Cracker was being honest as to what he did. A lot use all the advantages or bug/glitch abuses, bots/macros, or anything else they can do to become richer, higher level characters, stronger in PVP, etc. and then complain that the game is boring and too easy. If you always take the easy way things get boring really fast. And a lot of those people then get on forums and try to insist on changes for their game play style, but those posts and ideas don't take into consideration the game play of those that play all legit. A never ending battle.
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#19 HellGuardian

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:37 AM

If you have doubts as to whether anything in game is allowed or not just stop and think about it a minute. Does it give you an unfair advantage? Then it is not allowed. At anytime, whether you have to go to the toilet or not, using a bot/macro/whatever while leveling, farming, fighting, etc is not allowed. Actually it seems like the only time it is allowed is for crafting pots and opening dirties basically. When you see people using an unfair advantage bug/glitch abuse, bot/macros, etc. report them. It is all you can do. But I agree, the GMs should be tougher about this.

At least Cracker was being honest as to what he did. A lot use all the advantages or bug/glitch abuses, bots/macros, or anything else they can do to become richer, higher level characters, stronger in PVP, etc. and then complain that the game is boring and too easy. If you always take the easy way things get boring really fast. And a lot of those people then get on forums and try to insist on changes for their game play style, but those posts and ideas don't take into consideration the game play of those that play all legit. A never ending battle.


+1

If you have to think it is legal or not, 99% is illegal. Just fact of life.
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#20 CaNehDa

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:39 AM

+1

If you have to think it is legal or not, 99% is illegal. Just fact of life.


I thought AutoAOE and AutoHeal wasn't legal, turns out it is...

Can't know if you don't ask.

we've all been taught about what happens when you make an assumption...

Edited by CaNehDa, 10 June 2011 - 09:39 AM.

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#21 HellGuardian

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 10:09 AM

I thought AutoAOE and AutoHeal wasn't legal, turns out it is...

Can't know if you don't ask.

we've all been taught about what happens when you make an assumption...


Reread everything again, it is NOT legal to use those on combat situation ... AoE and Heal is all combat base.

PS: like Gojio said, you fail at fail ... And I add miserably ......

Edited by HellGuardian, 10 June 2011 - 10:23 AM.

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#22 CaNehDa

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 10:49 AM

Reread everything again, it is NOT legal to use those on combat situation ... AoE and Heal is all combat base.

PS: like Gojio said, you fail at fail ... And I add miserably ......


Quote
A macro which casts a sequence of skills.

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen and that the macro or application requires the player to cast at least one skill per sequence and that the sequence is not repeated. All other cases of this scenario are illegal.


What sequence of skills can you macro other then buffs ? or is that the only sequence of skills acceptable?
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#23 AlisiaMT

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:31 PM

If you have doubts as to whether anything in game is allowed or not just stop and think about it a minute. Does it give you an unfair advantage? Then it is not allowed. At anytime, whether you have to go to the toilet or not, using a bot/macro/whatever while leveling, farming, fighting, etc is not allowed. Actually it seems like the only time it is allowed is for crafting pots and opening dirties basically. When you see people using an unfair advantage bug/glitch abuse, bot/macros, etc. report them. It is all you can do. But I agree, the GMs should be tougher about this.

As I demonstrated above, using a macro to craft pots gives you an unfair advantage and it is still legal according to Genesis (although I'm still not sure why. His response seemed vague to me)
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#24 Niluje

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:33 PM

@cahnhehdhah

Quote
A macro which casts a sequence of skills.

This is considered legal so long as the player is actively watching the game screen and that the macro or application requires the player to cast at least one skill per sequence and that the sequence is not repeated. All other cases of this scenario are illegal.

This is a bit in contradiction with the term "auto"-heal/aoe, isn't it?

Edited by Niluje, 10 June 2011 - 12:34 PM.

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#25 Logi

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:48 PM

Be glad you can use auto presser to open dirties and for all the other stuff, just play the game.

Autoheal/autoaoe? sounds like botting to me, whether your there or not doesnt really matter, if the game is too boring for you stop playing.
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