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Defense formula


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#1 NadPriZnaToR

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:16 AM

I took this from Old requiem forum, cause its verry usefull

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Edited by NadPriZnaToR, 24 August 2010 - 01:17 AM.

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#2 Nuke

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:17 AM

the difference between 800 and 1000 is too damn small lol. wtf

Edited by Nuke, 24 August 2010 - 01:18 AM.

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#3 Sasuke21

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:20 AM

I have on my commander like 3370 def and its damn ok to have like 3k...
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#4 Nuke

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:21 AM

i want 3k on my ranger!
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#5 Confused

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:27 AM

Has anyone actually tested if the calculation/formula is right on most aspects, like for example higher damage on the same defense has same reduction % as a much lower damage?
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#6 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:35 AM

Taking into account the experiences of several players, it looks like the values mentioned in this list and the 2700 cap are true. It would be rather difficult to accurately test the taken damage with a set def number. This is because of the great difference between damage capacity different mobs have and also the level difference. For example: the toughest mobs in the game right now (apart from bosses) are those in JS (Jacob Shrine). They are lvl 74-75 and can still land a critical hit of 500-600 on me (just normal hit, not a skill like skull crasher or pierce). On the other hand, they frequently do far less damage, something in the 50-200 region.

I have fought each and every elite mob on Numaren, trying to see what they do and what they drop. I think they go up to level 84 (some mobs around Ellnir Tower) in this map. These elites never manage to do anything better than, say a 250 critical. Mostly their range of damage lies between the 20-130 region, depending on mob and level.

This is just a short account of experiences of damage taken from a wide variety of mobs, that are around my level more or less. Mobs who are lower than say 7-8 levels, tend to miss a lot or do significantly less, even dungeon ones like in WS. I am only taking into account normal hits not skills. I am currently a level 76 Commander, 2972 base def, 4235 def with skin of stone activated (well these values were true BEFORE the recent screw up after last maintenance, hah!).
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#7 Hugh

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:33 AM

Has anyone actually tested if the calculation/formula is right on most aspects, like for example higher damage on the same defense has same reduction % as a much lower damage?


I think those def/reduction values are a bit out.

I tested on a lvl 61 deer (with its max non crit dmg on different defenses).

Posted Image

According to these values ~100 def is ~15% reduction.

The first post in this thread has 100 def ~ 5% reduction.

Edited by Hugh, 24 August 2010 - 05:34 AM.

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#8 Confused

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:35 AM

Have you taken off shields for testing?
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#9 Hugh

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:36 AM

Have you taken off shields for testing?


Yep (if I hadnt dmg log would show lots of "you blocked with shield" making it harder to get results).
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#10 Confused

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:18 AM

That's a bit strange though, cause when I had 100 defense in FOC it didn't seem to do as much as 15%, 5% seemed like an accurate number.

But then I asked that because I always thought defense works better (more % reduced) on lower damages (like <100). Need someone test it out to confirm that I'm right or wrong though, I don't have a toon that can reach 2700 defense for better experimental controls. :rolleyes:
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#11 Hugh

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:19 AM

That's a bit strange though, cause when I had 100 defense in FOC it didn't seem to do as much as 15%, 5% seemed like an accurate number.

But then I asked that because I always thought defense works better (more % reduced) on lower damages (like <100). Need someone test it out to confirm that I'm right or wrong though, I don't have a toon that can reach 2700 defense for better experimental controls. :rolleyes:



Well I just tested again on a lvl 61 deer with results:
0 def - max dmg taken =103
101 def - max dmg taken=88 (after 10 min of attacking 88 came up 4 or 5 times)

so with ~100 def you take 88/103*100=85%

in other words a 15% damage reduction

If you have an AA char (well anything can aa i suppose) with not too much damage we can test if def works the same in pvp (if you're on valdes).

Edited by Hugh, 24 August 2010 - 09:22 AM.

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#12 Ozymus

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:39 AM

I will make some tests with my protector i will post equips, status, defense and all -_-s, first against mobs(from PD, JS and some random elites mode) and against a few players. Dunno when i will do it tho. :lol:
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#13 Salubri

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:48 AM

:lol:
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#14 DanteLucian

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:59 AM

Pssss

y=22.994*ln(x)-101.19

In wich:

y = % of damage reduced

x = defense


I posted it some time ago on wiki stats section too, with a little explanation.
Also noticed that the formula works for values over 85~ defense (if you replace x with a lower value, it will give you a negative number)

Edited by DanteLucian, 26 August 2010 - 08:02 AM.

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#15 netsniper

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

strongest mob ingame was the PD "boss" and now probly the lvl 80+ NM mobs
i got 1392 short range def and it seems to in the line of the first tablet NadPriZnaToR posted cuz by no means i absorb 70% dmg
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#16 Hugh

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:22 PM

strongest mob ingame was the PD "boss" and now probly the lvl 80+ NM mobs
i got 1392 short range def and it seems to in the line of the first tablet NadPriZnaToR posted cuz by no means i absorb 70% dmg


How can you possibly know you are absorbing ~65% and not ~70% without doing proper testing?
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#17 netsniper

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

first of all i dont know exacly how dmg i absorb ofc
2nd my defense obviously wasnt allways like this and i watched the diffrence in dmg from mobs and players while comparing with players with allmost cap defense so i can tell that it wasnt 70% and more in the line 60% or so
again...cant tell for sure the exact numbers
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#18 Wreckd

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:36 AM

I think those def/reduction values are a bit out.

I tested on a lvl 61 deer (with its max non crit dmg on different defenses).

Posted Image

According to these values ~100 def is ~15% reduction.

The first post in this thread has 100 def ~ 5% reduction.



hmm you should try vs someone not a mob because their damage range differ. When he made the test it was some1 with fist hitting him without Crit additional damage. You should try re-running the test but this time have a char with fist and no CAD attacking you.
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#19 Hugh

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 06:45 AM

hmm you should try vs someone not a mob because their damage range differ. When he made the test it was some1 with fist hitting him without Crit additional damage. You should try re-running the test but this time have a char with fist and no CAD attacking you.


I recorded MAX damage so damage range was irrelevant (other than it takes a while to observe max damage when big range).

I ignored crital hits.
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#20 Laner

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:35 AM

I recorded MAX damage so damage range was irrelevant (other than it takes a while to observe max damage when big range).

I ignored crital hits.


Actually I'd be curious, if having more defense than 2700 or 3000, has an affect to reduce crit dmg more :s?
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#21 Confused

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:20 PM

Actually I think I'm right, when the damage gets low enough, (for example <100, OR comparatively low enough as for that amount of def) the defense would do more % reduction than regular. In short I think the defense formula isn't always right. Either the calculation is much more complicated or that it just doesn't go by one formula. Amount of defense doesn't always go for a fixed % but it also depends on the range of number in damage. Need more testing to prove it though.
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#22 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:51 AM

Actually I'd be curious, if having more defense than 2700 or 3000, has an affect to reduce crit dmg more :s?



I do not have solid proof, but... Having fought many fights and duels, both in AA mode and using skills, I do have some observations. It seems to me that a really high def value, way above the 2700 limit, MIGHT help you receive less critical damage. In duels with capped characters who are MONSTER damage dealers, my high def value seems to result in reduced damage received. Even with negative effect, like -750 short def down. Since my short def is 4235, even with -750 applied, I would still be way over 3000. I do not have hard facts really, this is not some kind of research, but a general observation. I can just say that with this def I have hardly received a critical hit more than say about 1000, this includes fights with REAL damage monsters like certain lvl 79 zerks or sins.

It is all just an empyrical account, but I am sure such players are able to deal insane criticals in the range of something like 4500 or more. So, receiving 1000, in the worst hits, probably leads to the conclusion that really high def might actually help. Just a personal experience and conclusion really.
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#23 Vosk

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:55 AM

yea I don't have any numbers either, but I seemed to feel that I was noticing same/similar. Seemed to me that increases in defense of what should be relatively small % changes in predicted damage reduction if normal hit seemed to me to be having a disproportionately awesome effect on reducing top end crit damage. I asked a few people about it but none corroborated what I was talking about. Maybe is something to it.
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#24 Radacci

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:51 AM

i experimented too.
and indeed anything above 2500 isnt noteworthy

i was considering if level is a factor, but it seems not.
my lv 76 SR with temperion sword, always hit 68 damage on lv 68 druid with 2000def, its around 73% damage reduction.
and druid hitting SR with 972def is like 60% damage reduction.
even when i switched to melee DPS gear with SR, to test higher damage values, the % is about the same.
it would just be noteworthy if you're attacked by something with very high atk power. like raid bosses, or pimped zerks.
so i dont really see any need to go wild with def buffs or such.
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#25 Radacci

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:44 AM

hm i tried with low lv rogue.
with 0 defense, i take avarage 58 damage. with 50 def 49, so thats 18% damage reduction.
so i suppose that the defense cap depends on your lv. so a lv 100 player might need 5k def to cap.

Edited by Radacci, 25 November 2010 - 06:58 AM.

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