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#1 Graziano

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:05 PM

Champions:
Soldiers can advance to Champions through ceaseless self-training in the art of offensive combat. Champions can deal with many foes at a time with their powerful attack strength.
Nothing wrong in this description

Champions usually equip lightweight armor made out of titanium or other high refined metals. They can also equip Backshields when fighting against a stronger enemy.
They dont equip lightweight armor, they have the heaviest armor together with knights.

Champions generally use heavy weapons such as Two-Handed Axes, Two-Handed Swords or Spears.
Mentioning they equip two-handed axes, two-handed swords OR spears

Champions are ideal for fighting a large number of foes at one time with their powerful attack strength. However, since they are not as defensive as the Knight class, it may be difficult for them to battle stronger enemies. In a party, a Champion can support a Knight by damaging enemies while the Knight defends the Champion from attacks.
Nothing wrong in this description

Champions specialize in skills which increase attack strength and inflict great damage, but they also have access to abilities that can increase their attack accuracy and stun their enemies
Nothing wrong in this description

Changes:
Make the mspeed passive either a base value or replace them with another passive since the equip heavyweight armor and not leightweight armor. Replace 1 of the defence passive from common skill to the knight skilltree. Remove mute, it doesnt make any sence that a champion can cast such of an magical skill.


Knights:
Soldiers can advance to Knights imbued with holy power. Knights always lead the forces at the front line with their excellent defense, and can withstand attacks from stronger enemies.
Nothing wrong in this description

Knights can equip heavy armor, such as plate armor, and large shields that can offer protection to most of the body. They can also wear head gear like full helms which cover most of the face.
Nothing wrong in this description

Knights favor the use of a One Handed Weapon and a Shield at the same time. Although their attack strength may not be great, their strikes are fast and accurate. Knights that want to specialize in ranged attacks can equip Crossbows.
Their strikes aint that fast

Since Knights possess decent physical strength and high defense, it is possible to deal with stronger enemies when supported with magic skills that amplify their abilities. When in a party, Knights can lead the battle and directly confront the enemy as the first line of defense. They are not only efficient in protecting party members, but they can also cast some support magic skills to aid party members from a distance.
Nothing wrong in this description

Knights tend to specialize in the use of One Handed Swords for their speed and accuracy. They also use Shields to block enemy attack and have support skills that increase the defense of the caster or party members, as well as other enhancements. Against weaker enemies a Crossbow Weapon is preferred to increase damage.
Nothing wrong in this description

Changes:
Since the subscribtion say they stike fast, they might have an atttack speed passive.


Cleric:
A Muse can advance to Cleric after obtaining the power of holiness. The magic of Clerics can be used to heal and cure allies during battles.
Nothing wrong in this description

As religious devotees, Clerics prefer wearing neat, clean clothing, and light colored armors. They often mark their armor with holy symbols as a demonstration of their faith.
Nothing wrong in this description

Clerics generally wield a short Wand in one hand and a Support Tool in the other.
Nothing wrong in this description

Clerics are generally suited to aiding party members from behind by using their many support skills. In a party, Clerics can ensure that their comrades will not fall in battle.
Nothing wrong in this description

Clerics do not have any notable attacking or defending proficiencies, but are skilled at using healing, resurrecting spells and skills that give bonuses to other classes in battle. Clerics can also protect themselves with a few offensive magic spells.
Nothing wrong in this description

Changes:
For a full support clerics this supsciption is good, tho since all stats changed in the past few years there might be taken a look into the base value of the buffs.


Mage:

A Muse can advance to Mage after obtaining the power of nature. Mages are known for the sheer power of their offensive magic spells.
Nothing wrong in this description

Usually, Mages wear armor that makes them look gloomy, evil or eccentric. Sometimes they put on long and pointed hats, making them look like witches, but they focus on light armor that allow for easy movement.
Nothing wrong in this description

Generally uses a long staff in order to increase their concentration and success chance while using skills.
Nothing wrong in this description

Since they possess weak physical strength, they do not confront enemies at the front line of battle. Instead, Mages use magic spells from a distance to attack their enemies. Mages can be great partners for Knights and Champions by backing them up with their powerful magic attacks.
Nothing wrong in this description

Most of the Mage's skills are derived from the forces of nature. They are able to wield magic with the attributes of Fire, Ice, Lightning, Storm and Stone. They can also summon legendary animals or use a few basic healing spells.
I never seen a muse summon a legendary animal

No comments on this class

Raiders:
Hawkers can be promoted to Raiders which specialize in delivering deadly attacks. Raiders possess fast movement, hiding abilities and fatal blow skills, so it is ideal for them to use hit and run tactics in battle.
Raiders doesn't have the highest movement speed anymore, and dual raiders doesnt have the ability to cloak

In order to move as quickly as possible, Raiders do not carry many things or wear heavy armor. They wear leather laces tightened around their body, as well as a magic cloak. In melee fights, Raiders can wear armor made of thin metal plates or scales. Raiders are sharp dressers and can wear stylish feathered hats.
again raiders doesnt have the highest movement speed
Raiders, tend to favor Dual Swords or Katars to assassinate their enemies.

Raiders equipped with Dual Swords can initiate direct confrontations with their enemies due to their increased attack strength and defense. Katar Raiders can use their speed and dodge to avoid the enemy until they are ready for a sudden surprise attack. Raiders have a good dodge rate, allowing them to solo well. In a party, Raiders may actively be at the front line of battle due to their increased dodge and defensive strength, they can also contribute to fights by delivering fatal attacks when the time is right.
Once again speed..... And dodge aint the way it use to be since the reliability of skills, tho it does half of damage when they basicly miss.

Raiders possess skills that that can inflict fatal blows and allow them to hide or camouflage themselves out of the enemyâ??s sight. They also can use poisoning abilities, as well as a special skill that increases their movement speed.
Dual raiders cannot hide or camouflage anything

Changes:
It seems their should be something done about the movement speed on raiders which will start at the champion class to remove/adjust their movement speed passives. Dual raiders should have a cloak/stealth skill to, and since dodge isnt that reliable versus the abbility of skills there should be something done about that (a suggestion which was made a long time ago is that when u are cloaked or in stealth u completely dodge aoe attacks so that the opponant has to decloak you before he can hit u with any kind of skill, namely the aoe skills)


Scouts:
Hawkers can advance to Scouts by focusing on their archery skills. Scouts can use Long Bow class weapons to do fast and accurate attacks.
Nothing wrong in this description

Scouts wear lightweight armors made out of fabric or leather to move as quickly as possible. For increased defense, Scouts can also wear chain mail. They always carry a quiver, and seem to like wearing animal furs.
Also here we see the movement speed issue

Scouts tend to favor Long Bows, but it is also possible for them to use Crossbows.
Nothing wrong in this description

Strategy Since Scouts are well suited to using long range attacks, they can afford to avoid close encounters with monsters. Instead, Scouts initiate attack on the enemy from a distance and continue to attack as the enemy approaches. This makes Scouts ideal for supporting melee attack characters from behind when adventuring in a party.
Nothing wrong in this description

Since Scouts focus on long range attacks, most of their skills are related to bow abilities. These skills can increase attack accuracy when using a Bow weapon or the number of arrows that they can shoot at one time.
Nothing wrong in this description

Changes:
Also here we see the movement speed issue, u know what to do
:)

Bourgeois:

Honest Dealers that want to specialize in business and trading can be promoted to the Bourgeois. As Bourgeois, their trading skills are enhanced and are also able to hire mercenaries. Bourgeois characters use their financial abilities to gain control and influence over their opponents and to make sure their allies are well supplied.
Nothing wrong in this description

Because Bourgeois must travel from town to town for business, they wear lightweight, yet luxurious clothing that emphasizes their wealth. They can carry an extra pair of shoes for long trips, and can carry around huge bags on their backs for business.
Nothing wrong in this description

A Bourgeois can specialize in either a Gun or Launcher. For increased attack strength, they will choose a Launcher, yet for increased attack speed they will opt to use a Gun instead.
Nothing wrong in this description

Although Bourgeois can use Guns or Launchers, they cannot overcome tough battles relying on just their weapons. Thus, the Bourgeois can hire mercenaries to fight for them. While the mercenaries are battling enemies, the Bourgeois can support them with gunfire or the use of their skills.
Nothing wrong in this description

Bourgeois specialize in the use of trading skills, and can hire mercenaries to fight for them.
Nothing wrong in this description

Not much information about their build or skills.

No comments on this class

Artisan:

Dealers that wish to further develop their craftsmanship can be promoted to Artisans. As Artisans, they can create rare items by learning various crafting skills. They can also create potions and items for themselves and others to aid in battles.
Nothing wrong in this description

Artisans prefer dark clothing, as well as a broad brimmed hat to block the glare of the sun when they travel. They also carry backpacks which allow them to gather many crafting materials. Around their waists, they often carry a water bottle and simple tools for item crafting.
Nothing wrong in this description

Artisans are adept at handling Guns.
Nothing wrong in this description

Artisans are not well suited to solo battles, but have very strong ability to create weapons and armor that are suited for battle. They also can aid with potions and grenades in partys.
Nothing wrong in this description

Artisans have various item creation skills which allow them to create weapons, armor, potions, or gemstones. They have a few offensive skills for when the time comes, where they are forced to defeat an enemy.
Nothing wrong in this description

No comments on this class


Further off all change the weapon requirements on the classes, all classes are redistricted with weapon requirements to use signifant skills, for now champions can use all skills while that skills used to have an weapon requirement.
Its either all jobs or none.
(and dont start complaining about the accuracy passives which raiders can take while its on the other side of the skilltree, first of all it cost 27 sp to maximize the skill, en for second ill start complaining that all other jobs have their skill passive combined with their accuracy passives. Maybe this is something that should be fixed to)


Since i read an comment from zeppelin to give feedback once u experienced the changes and good points why this should or shouldnt be changed I took a look at the description on every class and gave this feedback on things what i think that should be changed.
And since it was gravity's intention to have it this way...... :lol:
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#2 chippy

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:19 PM

i would like to see champion skills have weapon requirements

not like they would give a gun bourge cannon splash or a launcher bourge zuly stun so why can champs have skills from different weapon trees

also the description for knight is lead the attacks so why does champs have all the movement speed surely it should be the knights who move faster to be able to stay at the front to lead the fight

not run up and get there 5 minutes after every one else is dead and be stood there like an idiot
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#3 Phish

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

I'd rather have some of the champs stats lowered (defense/mspeed) and remove 1 or 2 stuns and possibly debuffs rather than make the builds linear by restricting weapons.
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#4 xHydra

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:17 PM

I'd rather have some of the champs stats lowered (defense/mspeed) and remove 1 or 2 stuns and possibly debuffs rather than make the builds linear by restricting weapons.

+1,

With having that spear champs will have 3 aoes and then no acc or dmging dodge down aoe.

Then sword will have no stuns and 1 aoe.

And axes having 3 stuns. If the trees are balanced it wouldn't be that bad but adding the restrictions again would probably nerf champs a tad too much, as they would probably nerf def/hp/mspd along with it.

Edited by xHydra, 25 August 2010 - 03:20 PM.

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#5 Graziano

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:41 PM

its what i ment by either all jobs or none, then a raider should be able to learn skills from both sides of the skill tree, same for bourg, And probably scouts and knights would like to have the same option then 2. Tho it seems weird to see a one-handed knight cast the taunt shot from crossbow skilltree. But its either all classes to have the ability or none should have.

Another way is to even the stuns and aoes on the skilltree at champion, so every weapon has his own aoe and stun. Edit: xhydra already said this :lol:

Edited by Graziano, 25 August 2010 - 03:43 PM.

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#6 BrownBear

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:43 PM

Summary: kill the champs.

Make it happen!

On a serious note, I think they should either apply weapon restrictions to the champ tree or remove the restrictions from the raider and bourg trees. If they don't add weapon restrictions to champs, they should reduce either their def or HP, take off at least 1 stun, reduce their movement speed. Even if they added weapon restrictions I think champs would need to have a reduction in either defense or HP.

As you can see, I think one of their main issues is that they are too close to a knight's defensive capabilities while having much better offensive capabilities. They used to have berserk provide them with an insane amount of AP at the cost of reduced defense. That is no longer the case, but I have always imagined the class to be one that sacrifices defense for offense. Now they can "rage like a berserker" but still tank....
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#7 Kairoz

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:47 PM

Yup, I was telling IcePhish yesterday about bringing back the defense down along with Berserk, probably they can add something like that to Charge as well. Not sure how well it helps though.
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#8 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:49 PM

........ RAIDERS NEED CHANGE (especially dual raiders whom u have nerfed even more after last patch)(mental storm and mystic knife part)

CHAMPS


once upon a time i liked the class but seeing them over powered ....i hate EM for the movespeed that my raider cant attain after farmin a full movespeed set


rather than completely nerfing them(puttin weapon restrictions wont help i guess it will nerf them a bit below par)
keep the passives weapon restricted
ie.... accuracy bonus only if u use two handed sword and movespeed bonus only if u use spear etc)(replace movespeed by attack speed or DAMAGE RETURN for spear)
change some hp/defence passives to knight tree (let champs have limited access to those skills)
and MUTE for champs is too much !!! they already have plenty of stuns !!!!!!!!!
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#9 Graziano

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:37 AM

........ RAIDERS NEED CHANGE (especially dual raiders whom u have nerfed even more after last patch)(mental storm and mystic knife part)

CHAMPS


once upon a time i liked the class but seeing them over powered ....i hate EM for the movespeed that my raider cant attain after farmin a full movespeed set


rather than completely nerfing them(puttin weapon restrictions wont help i guess it will nerf them a bit below par)
keep the passives weapon restricted
ie.... accuracy bonus only if u use two handed sword and movespeed bonus only if u use spear etc)(replace movespeed by attack speed or DAMAGE RETURN for spear)
change some hp/defence passives to knight tree (let champs have limited access to those skills)
and MUTE for champs is too much !!! they already have plenty of stuns !!!!!!!!!


If they balance out the aoes and stuns over the 3 skill trees they easaly can put weopon restriction on it. U have it for every class (bourg,raider,scout,knight) which make it unique depending on ur weapon. For now it's only a difference in passives on which weopon u use. I dont want them to be completely nerfed or killed i want them balanced with all the other classes.
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#10 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:23 AM

Summary: kill the champs.

Make it happen!

On a serious note, I think they should either apply weapon restrictions to the champ tree or remove the restrictions from the raider and bourg trees. If they don't add weapon restrictions to champs, they should reduce either their def or HP, take off at least 1 stun, reduce their movement speed. Even if they added weapon restrictions I think champs would need to have a reduction in either defense or HP.

As you can see, I think one of their main issues is that they are too close to a knight's defensive capabilities while having much better offensive capabilities. They used to have berserk provide them with an insane amount of AP at the cost of reduced defense. That is no longer the case, but I have always imagined the class to be one that sacrifices defense for offense. Now they can "rage like a berserker" but still tank....

Please do. They even have mute, and they are 100%(?). Why the hell do they need it along with all these other stuff? yet mages get theirs lowered. omg can you just take away their mute ;\

Edited by Bllackberry, 02 September 2010 - 05:23 AM.

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#11 AllTheGuys

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:41 AM

aww thumbs down on taking away mute i mean they dont have burn or poison so they have to rely on only ap which isnt much cuz mages have more ap (somehow..) and its 5 secs unlike 10secs 4 mage so it isnt that bad raiders have the burn 2 stuns n sleep (40% usless anyways) so its balanced i think
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#12 Graziano

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:37 PM

aww thumbs down on taking away mute i mean they dont have burn or poison so they have to rely on only ap which isnt much cuz mages have more ap (somehow..) and its 5 secs unlike 10secs 4 mage so it isnt that bad raiders have the burn 2 stuns n sleep (40% usless anyways) so its balanced i think


Why does a class with so much defence need a mute to supress enmies skills in a game where u relay on ur skills to inflict more damage, lots of hp/lots of defence and then u can mute 2 >.< Can u imagine killing a raider or scout who can mute u? How the hell will u be able to kill him then. For champs how u will be able to kill him if u cant do much damage cause u cant skill.
Relying on their ap? how about defence, hp, and currently (yeah i hope they fix this) their mspeed.

Ever seen the defence on a mage? its the lowest ingame, so having more ap then a champ is fair enough.
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#13 BrownBear

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:08 PM

Mute isn't the issue with champs. It takes like 2 seconds to caste, lasts 5 seconds, and probably has a 20 second cool down. Can't tell you how many times I have been stunned in the middle of casting it. It is NOT the problem.

The issue with champs is their defensive abilities, in my opinion. They don't die quick enough for the amount of damage they can do. Their HP is the same as knights and their defense is too close to how much a knight can get.

Edited by BrownBear, 02 September 2010 - 01:11 PM.

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#14 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:13 PM

Mute isn't the issue with champs. It takes like 2 seconds to caste, lasts 5 seconds, and probably has a 20 second cool down. Can't tell you how many times I have been stunned in the middle of casting it. It is NOT the problem.

The issue with champs is their defensive abilities, in my opinion. They don't die quick enough for the amount of damage they can do. Their HP is the same as knights and their defense is too close to how much a knight can get.

;( stunned, then mute = i stand there like an idiot waiting to die cause i cant even whack my staff at them.
Can you please tell me what i can do since i cant even out run them?

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#15 BrownBear

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:15 PM


;( stunned, then mute = i stand there like an idiot waiting to die cause i cant even whack my staff at them.
Can you please tell me what i can do since i cant even out run them?


Wait 5 seconds. You can whack your staff at them once the stun ends as well.

Mages can do the same thing too. Stun, mute for 10 seconds, we stand there looking like idiots. See what I did there? :unsure:

Edited by BrownBear, 02 September 2010 - 01:16 PM.

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#16 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:33 PM

Wait 5 seconds. You can whack your staff at them once the stun ends as well.

Mages can do the same thing too. Stun, mute for 10 seconds, we stand there looking like idiots. See what I did there? :unsure:

if i can survive for 5 sec lol
but our mute isnt 100% o.o we cant kill them in 2sec.. and stun is over
not like we can whack them harder than they do plus our def and hp compared to theirs?

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#17 BrownBear

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:41 PM


if i can survive for 5 sec lol
but our mute isnt 100% o.o we cant kill them in 2sec.. and stun is over
not like we can whack them harder than they do plus our def and hp compared to theirs?


The problem is still not the mute. It is their ability to absorb so much damage.
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#18 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:56 PM

The problem is still not the mute. It is their ability to absorb so much damage.

imo if i wasnt muted, i can say i can at least stand a chance. Now once i am muted, i cant do anything at all but watch myself die.

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#19 BrownBear

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:04 PM


imo if i wasnt muted, i can say i can at least stand a chance. Now once i am muted, i cant do anything at all but watch myself die.


Mute always hurts mages more than others. But champ vs mage can still be competitive with champs having that skill. If you stun first, you mute first and can have your way with them, especially if you stun a lot. If you can't survive 5 seconds you could try to get more HP.

They still seem reluctant to nerf champs beyond increasing stun cool downs.
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#20 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:15 PM

given if BOTH my stun and mute did not fail. like i said, by the time stuns are over which is only 2sec or 1.. its their turn to mute, stun and bb.
maybe i wouldnt whine as much if their mute is lowered ;D

im not really sure exactly how much "more" hp i should get then.

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#21 Graziano

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:22 PM

Mute isn't the issue with champs. It takes like 2 seconds to caste, lasts 5 seconds, and probably has a 20 second cool down. Can't tell you how many times I have been stunned in the middle of casting it. It is NOT the problem.

The issue with champs is their defensive abilities, in my opinion. They don't die quick enough for the amount of damage they can do. Their HP is the same as knights and their defense is too close to how much a knight can get.


I know its not the mayor problem, but still dont see why a champion should have this ability.
One thing is for sure it makes the isue even worse.
And i know i said this before, but i simply cant say this often enough, their mspeed is way and way to much.

Fix the isue first and then make the decision if they should have a mute skill, but not 100% for one thing.
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#22 BrownBear

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:22 PM

given if BOTH my stun and mute did not fail. like i said, by the time stuns are over which is only 2sec or 1.. its their turn to mute, stun and bb.
maybe i wouldnt whine as much if their mute is lowered ;D

im not really sure exactly how much "more" hp i should get then.


I do agree they should have left soul doubt at 100% when maxed. Thought that was an unnecessary change. Make a thread to change it back. :unsure:
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#23 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:50 PM

as if they would listen to me lol
i PMed 3 CM / GM and no reply ;x

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#24 Kaizy

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 03:27 PM

as if they would listen to me lol
i PMed 3 CM / GM and no reply ;x


Zep, make soul doubt 100% at lv5!

kthx
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#25 Bllackberry

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 03:35 PM

Zep, make soul doubt 100% at lv5!

kthx

nooooooo i dont have 1 extra sp to lvl it to 5!

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