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Professions: Socket cards


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#1 EnderW

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:02 PM

It is my understanding that with tomorrows patch the max card level will be nerfed to 6 star

Having had time to play around with and use the card system I don't think they are all that unbalanced with the current max (10 star) the reasons I think this are as follows:

1. From the many card boxes I have opened it seems that anything above 5 star is quite rare which makes up for the stat bonus they give (compare to F6 rings 10 star ones are very powerful but hard to get)

2. If you want the max ones not only do you have to first get the card it then has to succeed when using it on the equipment meaning that on average you need more than 1 of a very rare card to actually get the stat

3. From what I have seen even on the max level cards the stat isn't all that high in my opinion

I also think the planned nerf is perhaps a bit strong and that a better option might be to just scale down the stats they give a little or perhaps restrict their use in PvP like the expanders if it's just a "PvP balance" issue.

I am interested to hear what other peoples opinions on the socket cards are and if there is another option for nerfing them that I have not thought of.
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#2 Rimmy

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:28 AM

AFAIK, that is an IAH-only change so far and has not been announced for our version. I'd wait and see what happens tonight/tomorrow before worrying about it too much.
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#3 EnderW

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:54 AM

I asked Aramis about it a few days ago he said we're getting it

Don't know if it's this patch or a future one though wasn't listed in the preview.
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#4 Rimmy

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:03 AM

I asked Aramis about it a few days ago he said we're getting it

Don't know if it's this patch or a future one though wasn't listed in the preview.


Ah, I see. In any case, personally, I feel that max-level socket cards do provide some potential for considerable imbalance. I'll pull an old post I made on that very topic:

While not all Socketing possibilities are overpowered, you can theoretically get stat bonus totals like:

Max HP +90%
Aim Rate +55%
Evade Rate +65%

(Mind you, this is assuming maximum-level cards used in several different categories of equipment, but still. Also, these totals are based on info from other servers -- I don't know if we have Socketing cards with the same values here, but I think it's safe to assume they're probably identical.)


Edited by Rimmy, 01 September 2011 - 10:04 AM.

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#5 AkatsukiKawa

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:22 AM

Sure socket card can give an OP stat but with the current profession system, it is reallyyyy difficult to reach that. So far, got 1 10 star and 2 8 star cards after opened around 400 boxes. With the profession update being nerfed (now, with all grade 6 material we can only get 11 boxes while before 59 boxes), getting 10 star card is really difficult.

Now if profession item is getting nerfed and nerfed again (first the expansion and now socket), i feel like it is that worth working hard in profession, especially in fishing (you can only make oil and card from fishing. Before i feel it is worth because the card from fishing is the best socket card imo).

10 star card to me is like "prize of being hard worker" and really will help a lot in PvE especially to non-IM spender. Getting 6 star card is not that hard and the stat is not that good.

I think better to restrict the effect of socket (so, PvE only) than lowering the max star of the card. This way, people who like to work hard can also enjoy their work and feel that their hard work is "appreciated" and can feel proud when they get the rare socket card.

About the OP stat Rim posted here, i am also agree that is an OP stat, but i think that OPness will only have problem in PvP. So, if socket effect is restricted to PvE only, that OP stat wont be a problem

Edited by AkatsukiKawa, 01 September 2011 - 10:34 AM.

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#6 EnderW

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:52 AM

Having taken a look at the link to the jdragonica info you posted rim I can tell you that some of it has changed I'm not sure about the stats but I think some of them are lower or the person that wrote that over estimated the top end values

but one thing I noticed on it for sure is that the jobs that make Attack cards (Fishing/Cooking)and Special Option cards (Engineering) have been switched in our version engineering which I take to mean the machinery production profession makes the attack cards (and also uses oil from the fishing job) while the special option cards are made by cooking (and also uses bright jewels from the alchemy job)

the most pro card I have seen was a 9 star 'SPECIAL' card I got which if I recall correctly (as it failed to get into my equipment :D ) 13% evade and 8% aim for a level 41-50 belt/shield/back as the card stats seem to only go up by about 1 point per level I would assume the 10 star version would have had 14% evade and 9%aim

I can see your point of view of stacking that on all the equips that it could be put on but I think my point about it being very hard to do is a valid one I haven't seen people saying the values on 10 star F6 rings should be nerfed for example and they give huge bonuses to attack/defense/HP&MP and it seems to just be let go because they're hard to get

From what I have read of the IAH patch notes they're also making it take more materials to create the card boxes so it will be even harder to get good cards

I think if you can get all the 10 star cards you need to get the 10 star stats on all of your equipment then you kinda deserve the stats but realistically I think it would be a long time before you actually saw anyone set up like that so we should look at it from an individual equipment basis first
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#7 StormHaven

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:21 AM

Having taken a look at the link to the jdragonica info you posted rim I can tell you that some of it has changed I'm not sure about the stats but I think some of them are lower or the person that wrote that over estimated the top end values

but one thing I noticed on it for sure is that the jobs that make Attack cards (Fishing/Cooking)and Special Option cards (Engineering) have been switched in our version engineering which I take to mean the machinery production profession makes the attack cards (and also uses oil from the fishing job) while the special option cards are made by cooking (and also uses bright jewels from the alchemy job)

the most pro card I have seen was a 9 star 'SPECIAL' card I got which if I recall correctly (as it failed to get into my equipment :D ) 13% evade and 8% aim for a level 41-50 belt/shield/back as the card stats seem to only go up by about 1 point per level I would assume the 10 star version would have had 14% evade and 9%aim

I can see your point of view of stacking that on all the equips that it could be put on but I think my point about it being very hard to do is a valid one I haven't seen people saying the values on 10 star F6 rings should be nerfed for example and they give huge bonuses to attack/defense/HP&MP and it seems to just be let go because they're hard to get

From what I have read of the IAH patch notes they're also making it take more materials to create the card boxes so it will be even harder to get good cards

I think if you can get all the 10 star cards you need to get the 10 star stats on all of your equipment then you kinda deserve the stats but realistically I think it would be a long time before you actually saw anyone set up like that so we should look at it from an individual equipment basis first


The rings don't help as much as you think. Along with they take waaaaaaay longer and you have to be lucky to get the drops instead of being able to just farm the mats knowing 100% you'll be getting an item. also 2 items are nothing compared to being able to slot ALL your equipment with the cards.

Edited by StormHaven, 01 September 2011 - 11:22 AM.

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#8 Endbringer

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:37 AM

The rings don't help as much as you think. Along with they take waaaaaaay longer and you have to be lucky to get the drops instead of being able to just farm the mats knowing 100% you'll be getting an item. also 2 items are nothing compared to being able to slot ALL your equipment with the cards.


Willing to bet i could get 2 10* rings 3-4 times over before i got my character decked out in even half 10* cards.

I am fine with the Stat and PvP nerfs to the profession system, however nerfing them AND making the now less useful items more than twice as hard to obtain is just absurd.

Edit: that's not even factoring in that sockets can break, and that cards are destroyed when failed.

Edited by Endbringer, 01 September 2011 - 11:54 AM.

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#9 Rimmy

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:01 PM

The problem here is that we're all talking about theoretical issues. We can argue the issue either way, but until we start seeing more active use of cards and more examples of some of the higher-end stats possible, it's hard to say what the effects will be and whether or not it will balance out in the end. Having said that, I'm totally fine with the idea of keeping 10* cards and just removing them from PvP use if they become an issue in PvP, as you suggested, Ender.
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#10 StormHaven

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:02 PM

As long as their effects are removed from PvP I wouldn't care.
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#11 EnderW

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:03 PM

The rings don't help as much as you think. Along with they take waaaaaaay longer and you have to be lucky to get the drops instead of being able to just farm the mats knowing 100% you'll be getting an item. also 2 items are nothing compared to being able to slot ALL your equipment with the cards.


Key words there is knowing 100% you will be getting an item

There is only a low chance of getting nothing from F6 but you might not get a ring drop or not the ring you want

you do not know 100% you will be getting the card you want
you also do not know 100% that the card you want will succeed on the equipment should you get the card you want

F6 rings are just as farmable as socket cards.

Again it's about how much work you actually have to put in to get the cards and for the F6 ring example you don't have to put as much work into it it's just running the F6 mode over and over while for the cards you need to level profession skills for example:

lets say you want to make the cards all by yourself with no help you need at a minimum 6 profession skills because all of the card boxes take items from 2 job lines

now a best case scenario you would only need the 1 job for the card you want and you could buy/be supplied with the items needed to make the boxes but this is highly unlikely

on average you would probably use 1 job line (3 profession skills) and trade for the other items you needed

the work to level the skills to the level for the items you want to make alone is a lot of work.

another example is the nerf to expanders they used to be x3.0 now x2.0 cut by a third
cards were 10 star cut to 6 star almost in half
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#12 Shuzelin

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:16 PM

I agree with EnderW and Rim, keeping 10star cards and just removing them from PVP.
And need to working hard to be able get above 5star cards. Please do not nerf :D :D :angry:

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#13 manifuelt

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:28 AM

i love the idea to keep the 10* cards and just disabling it in PvP/bsq/EW just like option expander.
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#14 Yurai

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 03:32 AM

Bumping this one back up. I think the socket option should be disabled in PvP as well since it only worsens the original problem of potential aim/evade that you can obtain on equipment.
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#15 EnderW

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

I don't know if it's still the case now that the 2nd origin patch happened (I've been away for a while due to broken hardware) but there were major issues with the nerf to socket cards that was meant to happen anyway (and it doesn't seem to have changed much if any during my time away)

to start with the max card level wasn't nerfed except for cards that were already in equipment before the patch (I still have an item that I feel was unfairly nerfed this way when you take into account that downshifted gear wasn't nerfed at all but rather grandfathered in) you could (can?) still get 10 star cards from the boxes they were just made a little bit rarer

also the materials needed to make card boxes going up to huge numbers at higher levels when higher level ones just mean the cards can be used on higher level equipment not that the cards are any better than the low level equipment ones doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me or the fact that it was raised at least twice compare the material cost to make the 2 star hammers to the cost it takes to make 1 star hammers and you should understand what I mean (2 star hammers haven't been given this type of nerf...yet)
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#16 Yurai

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:40 PM

I don't know if it's still the case now that the 2nd origin patch happened (I've been away for a while due to broken hardware) but there were major issues with the nerf to socket cards that was meant to happen anyway (and it doesn't seem to have changed much if any during my time away)

to start with the max card level wasn't nerfed except for cards that were already in equipment before the patch (I still have an item that I feel was unfairly nerfed this way when you take into account that downshifted gear wasn't nerfed at all but rather grandfathered in) you could (can?) still get 10 star cards from the boxes they were just made a little bit rarer

also the materials needed to make card boxes going up to huge numbers at higher levels when higher level ones just mean the cards can be used on higher level equipment not that the cards are any better than the low level equipment ones doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me or the fact that it was raised at least twice compare the material cost to make the 2 star hammers to the cost it takes to make 1 star hammers and you should understand what I mean (2 star hammers haven't been given this type of nerf...yet)

Aramis has said that they're trying to work out a way to fix the downshifted equipment, but to no success as of yet. In any case, the amount of evade you can gain from sockets definitely trumps the amount of aim you get.
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#17 Endbringer

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 08:14 AM

Bumping this one back up. I think the socket option should be disabled in PvP as well since it only worsens the original problem of potential aim/evade that you can obtain on equipment.


I fully agree that sockets should be disabled in PvP
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