54 replies to this topic

[GrapefruitGod]

Thank you.

There's a reason all the exceptional pvpers are from thq's era

[zabmaru]

That Community Manger is probably trolling as usual.

Trolling =/= disagreeing with you. Just popped in here to say that.

[Rimmy]

Let's please keep this discussion focused on the combos. If you disagree with someone about what is or is not an infinite combo, that's fine, but please don't turn it into a personal attack or your posts will have to be removed -- and I'd like to keep the insightful comments pertaining to player skill and its effect on this issue, as they are important to this discussion.

[igozuvi]

I recall Slayze mentioning that Mega Storm Blade is hard to catch if you're combo'ing with SB -> MSB, but not so when using MSB -> SB. Something about SB launching higher than MSB's reach.

If I'm wrong just ignore me, but by using the latter combo I've had no trouble air-locking this way.

[Yurai]

I don't really think that locks are much of an issue. The problem is that everyone these days is pretty tanky and difficult to kill, so there's nothing wrong with it unless you want to wage a war based on mana and how many skills you have to spam before catching someone again. Besides, you have teammates for a reason. I can understand that it gets a bit "anti-fun" in 1v1, but if there's someone using a "perma-lock" in a 1v1 fight, they shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place. In addition, the only class that has a true inescapable lock independent of the other player's block/evade rate is a paladin, and it would take forever to kill someone with that considering that TR is not enabled in PvP anymore.

Air locks were never an issue since they are commonly susceptible to failing.

Edited by Yurai, 16 September 2011 - 04:52 PM.

[Rimmy]

Actually, there was a correction issued and it seems the patch was amended, according to the patch notes -- TR works in regular PvP, just not in BSQ/EW.

EDIT: I have updated the list in accordance with the evidence provided and the accompanying debate. Also, added Mab's infinite combos.

Edited by Rimmy, 16 September 2011 - 06:34 PM.

[EnderW]

Class: Thief-->Bandit-->Rogue-->Savage

Head spin -> Upper Screwdriver -> Aerial Frenzy -> Head Spin/Repeat

I'm still fine tuning on this one but it worked quite well against rim the other day in BSQ so I thought I'd post it up

It does seem rather easy to get out of (though head spin is a great catching skill) so I'm not sure I would call it an inf. combo just yet

and if you're in a team other skills can over launch the target and let them escape (like mega storm blade kept doing to rim when my teammate used it on him)

[Kazra]

Sword Dance + Stumblebum + Gust Slash + Sword Dance..


wat?

[Jumpluffspore]

Class: Thief-->Bandit-->Rogue-->Savage

Head spin -> Upper Screwdriver -> Aerial Frenzy -> Head Spin/Repeat

I'm still fine tuning on this one but it worked quite well against rim the other day in BSQ so I thought I'd post it up

It does seem rather easy to get out of (though head spin is a great catching skill) so I'm not sure I would call it an inf. combo just yet

and if you're in a team other skills can over launch the target and let them escape (like mega storm blade kept doing to rim when my teammate used it on him)

Movement speed gets you outta that combo. It is pretty good against mage classes though.

[Mablung]

i need to re-access my previous myrm lock, its not quite working, and its only a plauible lock, so here goes
sword dance, stumble, sword dance, gust(lvl5), repeat.
that should lock with the ten second cooldown from stumble and 6 second cooldown from gust slash
i would hate leaving an incomplete lock ;D

Edited by Mablung, 20 September 2011 - 12:07 PM.

[necoconeco]

Just wanted to say we now have unlimited aerial recovery from this current patch. So I guess the only classes that can sorta air lock are Pathfinders and Specialists. Well, maybe not Specialists since RPG-7 causes people to glitch more than launch or relaunch

Pathfinders would be:
Any launch, AAS until they're close to the ground, Wolf Rush to relaunch, AAS?

Edited by necoconeco, 21 September 2011 - 07:51 PM.

[Bryant90]

Warrior/Knight/Gladiator etc.

Hammer Crush > Sword Dance > repeat
Vice Versa also.

Some Knight used against my Hunter

[Rimmy]

While this doesn't really seem to be a hot-button concern any more, I've updated the list again to this point.

[Misuu]

Someone will always find a way to make an infinite combo, unless the whole game gets completely nerfed which it wouldn't be fun IMO. It wouldn't be wise to remove infinite combos in general as people depend on the infinite combos to finish off healers if they have enough HP, something really common after 50+ I believe? No? Maybe 60+?, But the last uh I don't know ...3 games (?) that I've played against a mage they were easy to kill due to their hp nerf they got a long time ago. then again what do I know c: I don't play much pvp and as a Savage I don't use rolling stinger at all. Just putting my opinion out there! :3

Edited by Misuu, 17 October 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[DarkstalkerX]

First off, sorry to update a month old topic, but I just felt there could be more info added to that list. Here's an overlord infinite.

Gust slash>I'm gone bear>Incoming bear>Stormblade(Faster and slightly more efficient with targets that can block due to the low distance the enemy falls)/wyvern blade>Death snatch> Repeat

[Yurai]

First off, sorry to update a month old topic, but I just felt there could be more info added to that list. Here's an overlord infinite.

Gust slash>I'm gone bear>Incoming bear>Stormblade(Faster and slightly more efficient with targets that can block due to the low distance the enemy falls)/wyvern blade>Death snatch> Repeat

You can get out of death snatch.

[DarkstalkerX]

Yeah, because with enough movespeed you can glitch out of the stun, and before the stun actually happens, there's a 1.5 second window where the target can attack freely. This just means it's got more things that could affect it, but it will work if the skill gets corrected.

[tainguyen]

So I was thinking about it, but I think they should just place an extra stat in the game such as stamina (like shadow of the colossus, or zelda skyward sword).
Basically, each moves will take a certain amount of stamina as well as mp. Some moves take more than others. Their should be a stamina gauge that refills over time .If you keep using moves you'll end up exchasting your stamina, resulting to a temporary sluggish mode (7-8 moves leads to exchastion?)

Simple number outline
*stamina gauge - 8 points (starting)
Most skills 1 point. Op skills 2 points (skills that causes knock down at 2-3 points, as players can always hit and wait) (x atk 0.2, aas 0.4) (healing 5-7) (dashing 0.3)
Stamina recovery - 1 point per 2-3 seconds
Stamina will not be recovered in the middle of combo

My thoughts/equipment ideas
In my opinion, by putting in this new stat, it can stop combo locks, as the amount of stamina used can be adjusted for each skill. SD, Sd, sd won't get you amywhere since it has low damg, and if you chain with broom jab, ect, more stamina will be wasted. This will make everyone carefully decide what moves to use to play efficiently, while keeping combos cool looking and chainable (at a cost).

As for equipment, I would propose stamina recovery amt per time. This will result to letting the player combo more in a time frame by waiting less for the stamina gauge to refill. 80% x 1 point, 1.8 stamina added to gauge per 3 sec.

Second is by adding pure stamina. This is another possibility which can result to a longer combos.

I would reccomend one or the other, not both for equipment stat. It can work together if thought very carefully though.

*evade/block must be capped or adjusted for this idea.

Edited by tainguyen, 28 November 2011 - 10:58 PM.

[JustinLe]

So I was thinking about it, but I think they should just place an extra stat in the game such as stamina (like shadow of the colossus, or zelda skyward sword).
Basically, each moves will take a certain amount of stamina as well as mp. Some moves take more than others. Their should be a stamina gauge that refills over time .If you keep using moves you'll end up exchasting your stamina, resulting to a temporary sluggish mode (7-8 moves leads to exchastion?)

Simple number outline
*stamina gauge - 8 points (starting)
Most skills 1 point. Op skills 2 points (skills that causes knock down at 2-3 as players can always hit and wait) (x atk .2, aas .4) (healing 5-7)
Stamina recovery - 1 point per 2-3 seconds
Stamina will not be recovered in the middle of combo

My thoughts/equipment ideas
In my opinion, by putting in this new stat, it can stop combo locks, as the amount of stamina used can be adjusted for each skill. SD, Sd, sd won't get you amywhere since it has low damg, and if you chain with broom jab, ect, more stamina will be wasted. This will make everyone carefully decide what moves to use to play efficiently, while keeping combos cool looking and chainable (at a cost).

As for equipment, I would propose stamina recovery amt per time. This will result to letting the player combo more in a time frame by waiting less for the stamina gauge to refill. 80% x 1 point, 1.8 stamina added to gauge per 3 sec.

Second is by adding pure stamina. This is another possibility which can result to a longer combos.

I would reccomend one or the other, not both for equipment stat. It can work together if thought very carefully though.

i agree, infinite combos and locks has totally made pvp unfair and single-handedly outcasted classes that are unable to do locks. Each and every day i see Battle square filled with paladins spam-locking others and classes besides paladin are even discouraged to play. I say this stamina concept is a great solution to this problem and even adds a new pvp mechanic that allows players to be more strategic in choosing their moves rather than spamming the same moves to lock the other player to death

[Yurai]

So I was thinking about it, but I think they should just place an extra stat in the game such as stamina (like shadow of the colossus, or zelda skyward sword).
Basically, each moves will take a certain amount of stamina as well as mp. Some moves take more than others. Their should be a stamina gauge that refills over time .If you keep using moves you'll end up exchasting your stamina, resulting to a temporary sluggish mode (7-8 moves leads to exchastion?)

Simple number outline
*stamina gauge - 8 points (starting)
Most skills 1 point. Op skills 2 points (skills that causes knock down at 2-3 points, as players can always hit and wait) (x atk 0.2, aas 0.4) (healing 5-7) (dashing 0.3)
Stamina recovery - 1 point per 2-3 seconds
Stamina will not be recovered in the middle of combo

My thoughts/equipment ideas
In my opinion, by putting in this new stat, it can stop combo locks, as the amount of stamina used can be adjusted for each skill. SD, Sd, sd won't get you amywhere since it has low damg, and if you chain with broom jab, ect, more stamina will be wasted. This will make everyone carefully decide what moves to use to play efficiently, while keeping combos cool looking and chainable (at a cost).

As for equipment, I would propose stamina recovery amt per time. This will result to letting the player combo more in a time frame by waiting less for the stamina gauge to refill. 80% x 1 point, 1.8 stamina added to gauge per 3 sec.

Second is by adding pure stamina. This is another possibility which can result to a longer combos.

I would reccomend one or the other, not both for equipment stat. It can work together if thought very carefully though.

*evade/block must be capped or adjusted for this idea.

Sounds like a good idea, but defense nerfs and evade adjustments would have to be made first or it'd be impossible to kill anyone.

[tainguyen]

Defense and evade must be adjusted in general in order to get anywhere at all in terms of fair pvp. This post is for the casual player, and solves combo locks solely, and maybe heal.
With or without my idea, defense and evade will remain a problem. At the same time, I don't think evade and def will change (it hasn't changed for +so years, probably due to making players use cash to get higher end gear)
1 to 1 ratio for atk and def, and evade and aim sounds reasonable. (The mechanics to aim and evade and atk wit def is out of my jurisdiction)

*my post is free to rain on, I'm only planting and idea...

Edited by tainguyen, 29 November 2011 - 12:45 AM.

[Yurai]

Defense and evade must be adjusted in general in order to get anywhere at all in terms of fair pvp. This post is for the casual player, and solves combo locks solely, and maybe heal.
With or without my idea, defense and evade will remain a problem. At the same time, I don't think evade and def will change (it hasn't changed for +so years, probably due to making players use cash to get higher end gear)
1 to 1 ratio for atk and def, and evade and aim sounds reasonable.

*my post is free to rain on, I'm only planting and idea...

While that's true, your idea would make things worse for geared up players trying to PvP. It's already annoying enough as it is; it doesn't need to get worse.

[tainguyen]

Every mmorpg has geared op players. We cannot make this game too balance as it will lead to a lost of players. Why play a game once your on par with everyone else. DS is a free game, and needs players to buy points for higher end gear. What your suggesting is a pvp battle that require only skill. No mmorpg plays towards those rules. Pvp involves gear and skills.
Def to atk ratio, evade to aim ratio only needs to be adjusted where its close to 1 to 1.

My idea prevents locks. Without my idea, would you just lock a person with op gear they worked for? Id consider that far worse, as it takes no skill to lock in pvp. They spent cash or a lot of time getting that gear (if they didn't lucky for them). If someone wants to play fair in terms of gear, they can or cannot under their own decision, and if they choose to play fair, my idea will only make classes more balance combo wise. *I'm pretty sure your gear is op, so you'd be able to take on someone stacked in def if the ratio is 1 to 1.

As I said, the ratio must be fixed. The gap between geared op players vs casual players vs newbie players must be lessened. *****During tournaments that are naked pvp, I'm sure my idea will be most effective.
*your derailing the entire subject. This post is called combos and infinite combos. I could care less about stacked players, most ppl I play, play fair anyways. I encounter more locks issues than gear issues throughout my countless hours of pvp. Defense and evade can be solved somewhere else.

Edited by tainguyen, 29 November 2011 - 01:37 AM.

[GrapefruitGod]

Honestly after a certain point, extra defense just becomes negligible. The only thing damaging you at that point is going to be critical hits. With the extremely high critical damage people can achieve, yeah, they're going to hurt all the same.

[JustinLe]

While that's true, your idea would make things worse for geared up players trying to PvP. It's already annoying enough as it is; it doesn't need to get worse.

The reason why evade and def is such a problem is becaused most geared players over-stack on these stats, infinite combos or locks is no excuse or compensation for this fact.... the fault is on the players for overstaking on defense or evade in the first place. High evaders are literally reaching 300 evade making it almost impossible to hit them and players stacking def are enchanting their backs to +20 and the rest of their gear to 11+ making it nearly impossible to kill them. The issue isnt how to beat these type of players, but to discourage them from god-enchanting their equips in the first place. There should be a general rule within the pvp community like a max of 200 evade or max of 4k def. If ur going to complain about someone having to high def or evade then just dont pvp them at all, its going to be a unfair fight anyways

Edited by JustinLe, 29 November 2011 - 11:35 AM.