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AK card VS.. AS card for TWin edge for MVPing? (Acid Bomb)


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#51 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:36 AM

I don't think you should give gene advice anymore lol

Funny, I feel the same way "lol".


Come back when you have something close to 9-10+ years experience in this game KTHXBAI.
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#52 Jaye

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:46 AM

Funny, I feel the same way "lol".


Come back when you have something close to 9-10+ years experience in this game KTHXBAI.

back
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#53 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:00 PM

back

Front... and center.
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#54 Jaye

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:01 PM

Now, you come back when you are not saying moronic things like the following:

* Howling of Mandroga is useless
* Thorn Wall does not hit high aspd still
* Acid bomb wasn't nerfed on MVPs with last balance patch

Edited by Jaye, 15 March 2012 - 12:02 PM.

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#55 Rafa07

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

Heres a clue for ya pal.... my genetic was 150 / 50 before yours, I didn't sue god items ( other than 20% of level 123 when I borrowed a friends slieps), and didn't use TI's to level.


this isnt a valid argument, i started in semptember and my gene isnt lv 150 yet , this means that i know less about it that someone that make one alt 150/50 genetic in 3 weeks? any kid can turn a 99 creator into a gene 150/50 in 2 weeks using bm 3x + ti+ reset stones, that doesnt mean that he knows how to play with it.
when i needed to make 3-4 alts to support/farm gear/pots/make money, i also needed to gear my genetic and that takes time for a guy that play 5 hours a week.
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#56 Jaye

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

He doesn't know what he's talking about, besides, I've played since 2002 (beta) myself and I main a 150/50 gene in woe which I 150'd before turn ins became a regular thing at the beginning of last summer, and don't use god items either, so he and I have the same background, the difference is hes' not super familiar with his own class obviously. He does refer to himself as an "MVP" geneticisist, I am not sure what the difference betweent that and a WoE geneticist is since both have the same build in terms of damage (100+ int/dex, 90+ str, and suitable vit [in my case 100+ of that too]). Maybe he has some LUK?

Edited by Jaye, 15 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.

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#57 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

Now, you come back when you are not saying moronic things like the following:

* Howling of Mandroga is useless - it is, at least on a no bot filled heap like Ymir.
* Thorn Wall does not hit high aspd still - Don't give a crap, you don't like it point it out on Wiki forums where it was posted. I don't have time to give a crap about WoE crap... you can't even abuse the bug in PvP.
* Acid bomb wasn't nerfed on MVPs with last balance patch - it wasn't, MVPs themselves where change NOT acid bomb. Argue all you want about how "acid bomb" was nerfed but ANYTHING that takes target VIT / VIT DEF into account was affected, niot just AB.


Blah blah blah go yip at someone elses' heels. And FYI MVPs where changed to have less VIT and more HP in the balance patch. I.E. Acid Bomb formula wasn't changed MVPs where. You can't call it a nerf on acid bomb itself.

this isnt a valid argument, i started in semptember and my gene isnt lv 150 yet , this means that i know less about it that someone that make one alt 150/50 genetic in 3 weeks? any kid can turn a 99 creator into a gene 150/50 in 2 weeks using bm 3x + ti+ reset stones, that doesnt mean that he knows how to play with it.
when i needed to make 3-4 alts to support/farm gear/pots/make money, i also needed to gear my genetic and that takes time for a guy that play 5 hours a week.

You are obviously too mentally challenged to read. I used NO TI's, it was well before BMx3's became readily available, and NO god items. Now go join Jaye on drooling on another set of keyboards and hope someone hit you with a clue-by-four so you thought of getting a waterproof one for once.
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#58 Rafa07

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:27 PM

You are obviously too mentally challenged to read.

and am i the mentally challenged to read? i was talking about a hyphotetical player, not talking about you!
"about it that someone that make one alt 150/50 genetic in 3 weeks?" someone doesnt mean you!
"any kid can turn a 99 creator into a gene 150/50 in 2 weeks using bm 3x + ti+ reset stones, that doesnt mean that he knows how to play with it." any kid doesnt mean you! or it does?
"this isnt a valid argument" only this was about you
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#59 Jaye

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

Don't bother rafa. He's too proud to admit he's wrong about a lot of stuff, and even resorts to outright making up false things (re: mvp vit) just ignore him and any advice he tries to give :P
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#60 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:46 PM

Don't bother rafa. He's too proud to admit he's wrong about a lot of stuff, and even resorts to outright making up false things (re: mvp vit) just ignore him and any advice he tries to give :P

Take a look in the mirror once. I haven't seen one good rec from you in months and as for rafa... well none of his posts where good advice so far.
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#61 Rafa07

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:23 PM

Take a look in the mirror once. I haven't seen one good rec from you in months and as for rafa... well none of his posts where good advice so far.


my advices are bad? your advices since ever is to drop every skill like mandragora/thorn/CV in woe and focus only in FE+DF!
i dont even talk about Twin vs Elemental since are both good, some ppl prefer ES like me, other prefer Twin the thing is that i like ES better 'cause i tested it, you prefer twin cause you read it and like show before in last posts just because someone wrote doesnt mean its true(like thorn wall argument). Everyone will ever have diferent opinions i respect that but you always take it too far and atack the ppl not their opinions.
And all your arguments are like:"iam the ragnarok god and i play since ragnarok was created, i know everything and everyone and everyone else is a monkey with a mouse pad spamming it head against the keyboard"

Edited by Rafa07, 15 March 2012 - 06:29 PM.

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#62 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

my advices are bad? your advices since ever is to drop every skill like mandragora/thorn/CV in woe and focus only in FE+DF!
i dont even talk about Twin vs Elemental since are both good, some ppl prefer ES like me, other prefer Twin the thing is that i like ES better 'cause i tested it, you prefer twin cause you read it and like show before in last posts just because someone wrote doesnt mean its true(like thorn wall argument). Everyone will ever have diferent opinions i respect that but you always take it too far and atack the ppl not their opinions.
And all your arguments are like:"iam the ragnarok god and i play since ragnarok was created, i know everything and everyone and everyone else is a monkey with a mouse pad spamming it head against the keyboard"


You mean they are not?

And I have had my 2 twin edges since pre-renewal thank you very much. I"m the original poster who found out sword training gives / gave an additional 1-3K damage on CC with swords.
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#63 Rafa07

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:49 PM

And I have had my 2 twin edges since pre-renewal thank you very much. I"m the original poster who found out sword training gives / gave an additional 1-3K damage on CC with swords.


wow we have a badass, thank god we have someone who can read skills descriptions and make posts about it.
I just found out that Spear Mastery increase Pierce damage! better to share this info because probably nobody else knows! come on, is that really your argument?
probably before you made that post 90% of genetic already knew about it, after that post 90% of genetic says:
"Thank you Captain Obvious"
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#64 meoryou2

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:04 PM

wow we have a badass, thank god we have someone who can read skills descriptions and make posts about it.
I just found out that Spear Mastery increase Pierce damage! better to share this info because probably nobody else knows! come on, is that really your argument?
probably before you made that post 90% of genetic already knew about it, after that post 90% of genetic says:
"Thank you Captain Obvious"

Hurrr or yeah, like our fearless know-it-all rafa07 and Jaye say "Sword training is useless, don't bother getting it it adds no damage" :dunno:

90% of genetics also DON'T have "axe AND SWORD MASTERY" for the small amount of bonus damage that gives as well.

You 2 morons deserve each other, not gonna bother with replying to your posts anymore except to point out blatant idiocy.... so probably at least once a day. :waddle:
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#65 Jaye

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:39 AM

Why are you still posting? ahaha

...did you really give up points in howling for 50 mastery attack on cart cannon? lol lol lol
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#66 Meioh

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:39 PM

I'm not here to say points are better spent in howling than sword mastery, specially since i don't WoE. But mastery attack applies the exact same as equipment attack right now;

So while i'm not saying you should go with mastery given the option between howling and mastery (since i don't woe, and don't care enough to know about howling's effectiveness there after that so called nerf), 50 attack is quite a bit (again, disregarding skill point distribution on WoE scenario) and i wish people would stop going around saying masteries are useless;


I know you dont, but in case people doubt it, there's some tests below:

Blue Twin Edge (150 atk) - No Mastery:
Posted Image


Ring Pommel Saber (100 atk) - No Mastery:
Posted Image


Ring Pommel Saber (100 atk) - Level 5 Sword Mastery (+50 atk):
Posted Image



OH, and DF+FE bomb effect doesnt seem to be magic. AS only affects normal bomb, not DF+FE. Racial cards affect both though.

Edited by Meioh, 20 March 2012 - 10:47 AM.

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#67 Jaye

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:13 AM

I don't think its a common misconception in this community about how mastery attack works. its just greatly overstated how useful it is. Not even bloody ball shackle is that useful in endgame.

Screenshots that must be in that post aside since I can't view them at work (pictures disabled with a plugin in firefox so its less obvious I am browsing personal sites @ work), 50 atk from equip or mastery is just 50 * 130% * 1000% * 200% on monsters with opposite element and a kingbird twin edge, so ~1300 added to cart cannon. your screenshots corroborate this. While this is superfab spiffy in PVM if you're putting 0 points into PVP skills like howling, thorn wall, thorn trap, etc, its just plain not smart for a woe character. I was responding to meoryou2, myself, who was stating he gets sword mastery for woe, which just isn't practical. I personal;ly use sword mastery for a leveling/pvm build on my alyt gene, but I am dropping it once its 150/50.

* And anyone asks, the 1000% is just a rough estimate of CC's final damage with 130~140 INT which is what most people pvm with.

Edited by Jaye, 20 March 2012 - 10:54 AM.

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#68 Meioh

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

Like i said, i'm not implying it's worth it losing pvp skills for that on a WoE char (again, i don't pvp/woe), i'm simply clarifying something that a lotta people here seem to take for granted. And it doesnt help when people outright spread misinformation (read: people - not you), like that stickied guide.

Edited by Meioh, 20 March 2012 - 10:43 AM.

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#69 Jaye

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:33 AM

I am not personally spreading misinformation, though I have seen some in certain guides I find questionable. As I said above, Sword Mastery is useful for an extra ~1k or so when leveling, but should surely be dropped by time you WoE/PvP. I could see Sword Mastery in an MVP build but I'd say certainly the value of 50 ATK isn't as great as even 5% ranged attack bonus or other DPS related buffs like cast speed or attack speed.

Edited by Jaye, 20 March 2012 - 11:02 AM.

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#70 Meioh

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

I know you were, mandragora itself being solely a woe skill.

I guess i should have made a new thread instead of driving this one more off-topic.

Edited by Meioh, 20 March 2012 - 10:50 AM.

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#71 Jaye

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

No that is a fine conversation. The way you quoted me it looked like you were citing my advice against 50 mastery/equip ATK for WoE as misinformation. If that wasn't your intent, its fine. It sounds like you agree that 50 equip/mastery attack is not worth losing mandragora in WoE, so we agree, really.

Edited by Jaye, 20 March 2012 - 11:04 AM.

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#72 Meioh

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:05 AM

Sorry about the misunderstanding then~

Edited by Meioh, 20 March 2012 - 11:07 AM.

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#73 Rafa07

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:33 AM

i just tested on sakray with and without sword mastery and with SM the max damage of 3 tries was ~12800, the max damage without was ~12300, its seems that sword mastery gives always +500 damage with cc, can you confirm this?
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#74 Jaye

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:39 AM

Its not a flat +500 but when you have around 130-140 int which is where most genetics end up, the mod is close to 1000% so 50*10 = 500. That dummy on sakray doesn't have an elemental weakness or else you'd see cloert yo 1,000 extra damage, and then there is archer skel cards (dunno if you are using them).
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#75 Rafa07

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:44 AM

+8 twin red sword with 3xAS, with 110int
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