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Why gravity?


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#1 magiccircle

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:19 PM

Why gravity? Why is it every single time you guys come out with a "Good" new idea you make us pay for it! Costume system? WOW OMG ITS SO GOOD you mean I dont have to look like im wearing THIS FUGLY ASS ABYSS KNIGHT HELM that I paid 15 bucks to get +9.(before enriched jerk) oh wait.. I have to pay for it.. OMG mounts you mean every character can have increased movement speed while walking to dungeons (yes I used to like walking to dungeons). oh wait that cost real money too.

How about making monsters drop some of these hats instead of putting them in the next frekin box event. (I.E. abyss knight hat being dropped by an actual Abyss Knight.. makes sense right?)

How about having an event that doesn't have to do with KAFRA SHOP? (seriously when is the last time we got a good event that didn't have to do with buying kafra items)

Can we please get a damn quest to get mounts? I cant imagine too many people wanting to buy them or at least make them permanent.

Dammit! (I just wanted to vent all that). The other day we were having a serious guild discussion about how to get players to woe on Wednesday. (were probably the biggest guild on Ymir) and the only thing left to do is to start handing out WP energy to keep them playing. Which is frekin sad. 3rd classes are broken. Kafra shop is the only way to get good gears. You gotta pay real money to get high upgrades. We get no events outside of an exp event or drop event without it being tied to Kafra shop. WTF happened to you guys. You were once a modest company with a great game. An amazing game in fact. I made so many friends had so many experiences. up and downs. worked hard over the years to get the stuff I have now with my friends. You used to be able to feel accomplished working hard for gears. WoE used to be the laggiest thing in the world but we would still look forward to it every week. now... wtf ever man.. Now its like guildies! what can we do to keep you guys happy? We can't go out and help you get gears because kafra shop gears far outweigh anything we can get for you that's actually an in-game item. We don't even recruit by build/player skill or level anymore. We just recruit the players that buy a lot of items from kafra shop which I don't really care for. Please don't delete my post. It's real talk. And I think you guys need some of that.
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#2 Ralis

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:26 PM

People want more and more of them, yet they aren't willing to pay for it.

They're a business, and they're offering you a service that can be free if you want it to be. Call it a free trial if you want, but in the end you're going to end up paying for every form of entertainment one way or another.

I don't really understand how this is any different.
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#3 kite24

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:37 PM

Hey topic starter, are you the Italian man that went to Malta? If so, peace on you too!
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#4 Atrista

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:58 PM

man, i've played other games that were far worse than this... you should be happy that not EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE GAME has to be paid for with real money if you dont want to be stuck in the same place for ages(yes, i played a game like this. and now i hate it with a passion)
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#5 magiccircle

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:20 PM

lol I hardly think hitting people up for a $1.50 people every time they think of something beneficial to the game experience is fair Ralis. Are you telling me that the 5 years I paid for the game and kafra items was a trial? I don't have a problem paying for things. When the servers went free to play I was against it. Infact I like the VIP and kafra shop systems. I just hate the fact, that every single time something comes out it has to be in kafra shop. Like come on man.. Can an Abyss Knight not drop an Abyss Knight helm[1]? Can a Moonlight Flower not drop a Cat Ear Beret[1]? Can a Dark Lord/Entweihen Crothen not drop a Skull Cap[1]? Can we not get an NPC that takes 2~5 regular elu/ori to upgrade with enriched rates? Not only would it help with the fact that in-game drops are worthless, but it will give people incentive to actually play the game! (Doing Turn-ins to 150 is not playing the game.) Hunt Items! Work Hard! Make friends and have fun! Those are all things that I love about the game. Those are the things that bring people to it along with fierce competition. Having good items in buy shops is a fine thing and I do not have a problem with it. It's just come on.. There not putting any effort in the quality of the game anymore. Now it's just shut up and give us 5 bucks for this new hat that's gonna be outdated next week. Attention! Attention! here's a new mount/costume system that were gonna charge you to use. On top of paying playing the full game. On top of paying to upgrade our gears. On Top of paying for the gears themselves. On top of paying for manuals and gum to hunt the few items in game that are worth anything. It's Stupid.

Edited by magiccircle, 23 November 2011 - 11:24 PM.

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#6 Ralis

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:32 PM

The MVP gravestones were free.

Every one of these holiday / event quests is free.

You can even turn in some junk items for Kafra Shop items now.

Also, they're working on a way to allow gear we already have to be costume items.

I don't really think the whole costume tab is really all that amazing or important. If people want to spend some money and look cute, cool, but it's not for me.

One of the benefits of being a Peco class was just that... You got a Peco. I was rather scared when they put them in, but I'm glad they cost some KP. It should, for classes that weren't designed to have mounts in the first place.

You don't have to pay to upgrade your gears, you pay for a better chance at it.

Virtually /nothing/ in the Cash Shop you HAVE to buy with KP. Work in the game and get some zeny and you can buy all the cash items you want off of other people.

I could go on.
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#7 Piers

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

I do agree that there is the issue (that's also a staple in MMORPG these days) of money -> better gear -> better player factor. Double Attack is suppose to be the Thief's defining skill yet you'll see quite a few players pull it off.

The problem is that RO has to make money, ultimately. It's almost the same reason TF2 had to stick in the shop feature.
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#8 HRdevil

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:49 PM

Wall of text.


I agree with you 100%. The game is not about skill but who buys the more KP and in the end people will say "Oh he got skills" with his mass +12 Kafra gears like if the game is that hard to play /facepalm.

Pay2win.
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#9 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:08 AM

MMO evolution... :P
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#10 Hrishi

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:09 AM

Damn magic circle, this is EXACTLY the conversation we were having on vent the other day. It's so true.

@ Ralis : If this is the case, why is every single in game alternative worse than the kafra shop alternative? (See feather beret vs abysmal knight helm) Unfortunately the game has become pay-to-win or buy from somebody who pays-to-win.

Edited by Hrishi, 24 November 2011 - 12:14 AM.

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#11 Ralis

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:37 AM

Please point me to a game that doesn't have superior items and services in their cash shop.

If they weren't better than what you can find in-game... Why would anyone buy them?
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#12 JStoneheart

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:00 AM

Free2play =/= Free2win

I have now some good stuff I've got on my own (a couple of +9 gears and some +7, one of them Cat Ear Beret) and I have never paid a cent for any of them.


The only true fact about this topic is this game is not longer "Ragnarok Online", it's...



"Turninitnow Online"
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#13 Kuwano

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:10 AM

Welcome to the world of Free to Play MMO's. It's how they earn money, my friend, and it's the only purpose of the existence of such games. They're not made to please you, no, they're made to earn money. Sad, but true. It's sad that subscription type of game turned into F2P, but yeah, whenever you're registering to play a F2P game, you will always see similar management.

If for some reason your Ego makes you want to "win", in this kind of games you have to pay to "win". You can still enjoy the game itself without spending much, but that's if you don't care about competing with others and just taking it easy. If you think you're spending too much on this game, just consider playing some Pay2Play game with subscription fee. Over there you can "win" by just grinding. Singleplayer games are even better.

PS: I do hate that the mounts are rental items though, I'd rather see them account bound and non tradeable, but permanent :<

Edited by Kuwano, 24 November 2011 - 01:33 AM.

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#14 Ralis

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:12 AM

Oh yeah, I'm definitely not saying that those that are paying are better off than those that aren't, but really... You come into a game run by a business and don't expect to pay for the entertainment?
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#15 KataiKou

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:14 AM

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that a thread about a PURELY COSMETIC COSTUME FEATURE lead to a pay2win argument?
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#16 JStoneheart

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:19 AM

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that a thread about a PURELY COSMETIC COSTUME FEATURE lead to a pay2win argument?



read again, I think you are missing something important here.
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#17 magiccircle

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:02 AM

I'm not debating that good items should not be in kafra shop Ralis, I'm just saying it would be nice if there was a different alternative to get them. I don't like the fact that items that go far beyond the bounds of ANYTHING given in the game (i.e. F.Beret vs AK. Helm, Giant Majestic Goat vs Cat Ear Beret, Wizard Hat vs Red Pom Band CoD, Skull Cap, MRH, pretty much every wizard hat has been given in kafra shop. No in game hat currently besides MRH and COD was given outside of an event.) are always in shop. They don't even try to distribute them for merit anymore. And the fact that any cosmetic change they come up with were being forced to pay for. I want items in different ways. They make soooo many items sooooo often and they don't even think of other ways to distribute them. 85% of the item drops in game are mediocre, can we get at least one of these great gears from them? Is that really too much to ask? Again it's not that I cant afford them or that I don't want to buy them. It just seems to me that aspect of the game is being drained by kafra shop.

Edited by magiccircle, 24 November 2011 - 02:04 AM.

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#18 Okii

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 05:35 AM

It almost seems like they need to buff all in-game items to be on par with kafra items. It's really sad.
People say like "oh well if imma pay for it, it needs to be worth my money" ... so they expect kafra gear to be better than in-game gear, but that just breaks the balance and makes the actual game pointless. I agree with you magicircle.

Fun-gineers are trying to come up with ways to get kafra items without having to buy lucky boxes, etc. and actually do in-game "dungeon runs" against buffed and skill twisted MVP's that are both challenging and rewarding. I still believe that we have to have some kind of kafra bought coupon to exchange with the loots in order to get the kafra gear though.
[sarcasm] You know, it can't all be free :D [/sarcasm]


Everything nice is gonna be introduced by "buy this hat and get it to +9 for a special bonus effect" or "S-class lucky box gear" or "buy this coupon to get a chance to win this awesome gear"
and don't even get me started on safe certs =.=

People also say "oh well it's nice cause the noobies get to catch up!" Well :P haha, guess who else is taking full-on advantage of these events and Kafra gears/items? It's not just noobies that can use them and really it just bring the high-tier players even higher.


Battle/Job Manuals, hp/sp increase potions, colorful butterfly wings, clothing dyes, etc... those items are fine to be in kafra shop because they don't affect anyone else but your own character. They don't corrupt the balance and justify it with "if you have the zeny you can get it too when it's tradeable" like the gears do. I mean some of these gears really affect the gameplay in several different areas of RO. Like CEB's and Immune shields. People say Valk shield is better, but then they go on to say that it's because a Valk shield is a cheaper alternative. AN IN GAME ITEM IS A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO KAFRA GEAR. Do you see where there's an issue with that statement?

In-game items are second rate. You won't see anything change with the in-game effects of items and kafra gears will just keep getting more glamorous and useful as compared to in-game items. It's like in-game items are for the average and kafra gears are for the high-end players (lots of zeny/kp to afford them)

Idk that's how I feel about it.

Edited by Okii, 24 November 2011 - 05:38 AM.

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#19 CeruleanGamer

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:00 AM

There should be a WoE/PvP mode with Eden gears and Suras should be banned. :P
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#20 Joshiji

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:20 AM

Everything in the game can be bought with zeny though...
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#21 Hrishi

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:39 AM

Please point me to a game that doesn't have superior items and services in their cash shop.If they weren't better than what you can find in-game... Why would anyone buy them?


Why do they have to be better? Why can't it be just as good? This gives you the OPTION to buy them, rather than making it a necessity for any competitive player. Why do almost all drops from the game suck? As for a game that doesn't have superior items and services in their cash shop? There are millions of them out there.
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#22 fenryl

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 07:13 AM

The game needs people who buy kp and keep gravity financially afloat, but it also needs people who actually play the game and make it look populated and alive... finding the proper balance to keep both kinds of players happy is critical. If you antagonize one or the other goup you might as well close shop, because no one is gona pay kp in a deserted game, but if you dont keep the kp buyers happy they ll stop spending cash on your game.

Imo as long as you make sure every single kafra shop item can be put in a cart, it's fair game... because it will mean dedicated players who dont wanna spend cash to play ro can get those item just by playing the game long enough. This is already done more or less successfully by the GMs nowadays and its pretty cool which makes me question the purpose of this thread.

As a player who doesnt wanna spend kp, you should be happy about how things are now, you don't have to gamble to get what you need. you just save enough money and use it to buy what you need. however if you re that pissed off just because you cant gamble i'd suggest therapy.

Edited by fenryl, 24 November 2011 - 07:16 AM.

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#23 MrBudd

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 07:34 AM

I love how every once in a whil some sh!t broke kid complains about sh!t not being free. Sorry to break it to you but the real world runs off money and RO just became one step away from fantasy and one step closer to reality. Just be glad there are methods to get the stuff that costs money without spending any of it.
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#24 mooMOOmoo

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 07:43 AM

In Guild Wars (buy the game for $40 USD which contains all 3 campaigns + expansion, and no subscription fees), costume clothing (15 sets released so far) are one of the few things you buy with real money (7 USD for 1, or 10 USD for set of 2 during special events). They're purely cosmetic only, and can't be displayed in PvP. Other things you buy with real money are extra character slots ($10 each) or extra storage panes ($10 each)

Edited by mooMOOmoo, 24 November 2011 - 07:45 AM.

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#25 fenryl

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:14 AM

You cant compare one of the biggest MMO franchises to RO... it's a whole different scale. A game that has hundreds of thousands ( i think guildwars 1 sold more than 6 millions copies) of players only needs a teeny tiny portion of their playerbase to participate in microtransactions... because that tiny portion is already huge and is enough to keep the servers running. iRO has 2-3k players tops, so there needs to be a strong incentive to buy KP as often as possible... Thats why Gravity is always flirting with the "game-breaking" whenever they implement new kp items, and sometimes they just completely go over that line.
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