8 replies to this topic

[Yurai]

Healing skills in PvP need to be toned down a lot. As people gain more defense and HP, the problem increasingly becomes a larger issue. With level 10 instant heal, you can heal 75% of your HP every 8 seconds. In addition, level 10 slow heal will heal 7.5% HP every 3 seconds. This combined with ridiculous amounts of defense and health makes it impossible to kill anyone.

Edited by Yurai, 25 November 2011 - 03:21 AM.

[Rimmy]

I asked for this for over a year (back when it was Barunson developing, and pretty much ever since it changed over to Gravity Games), and all that has changed in that time was a lame "nerf" attempt by doubling the already extremely low MP cost for skills like Instant Heal.

It's pretty much accepted that heals are lame and OP in regular PvP (I agree), and I can't stress enough how much this goes against the whole point of playing the healing class in regular PvP. I mean, I'm a priest/invoker and I haven't used heals in normal PvP in months (unless my opponent specifically asked me to do so, b/c otherwise I just hear QQ about how OP heals are). It's like asking a WM to not cast Blizzard or Fire Emblem -- it just completely changes the way you play the class. I can say that personally, if Instant Heal and Slow Heal were nerfed to the point where pretty much everyone could agree it's fair to use them in regular PvP in every match, it would significantly change my own playstyle.

I also believe it would open up the class a bit to being more newbie-friendly in PvP, b/c right now most fresh priests/invokers who enter PvP likely encounter the following sequence of events: 1) Enter match, spam heals every time you drop near death (as you learn to do in PvE); 2) Opponent(s) complain(s), you stop using heals; 3) Get trounced pretty regularly b/c you have no idea how to play a healing class without using the heals; 4) Give up on PvP. I honestly believe this is probably the reason why you hardly see any priests/invokers in PvP anymore. It's not that you can't play the class without heals in PvP, but if you do, you have to be stacked to the extreme -- and even then, you have to learn a completely different playstyle, b/c all of a sudden you're stripped of several of your most useful and unique skills and you're forced to play your healer like some kind of pseudo-warrior.

[tainguyen]

Perhaps make it so that when healers heal, the can heal every other class besides magicians. This way, the team will have to find a strategic way in killing the healer first, and the healer isnt completely invincible anymore. This way healers can heal as much as they want, but in exchange they will die sooner than everyone else.
As for having stacked healers and players, that is under a whole different category and must be fixed to make team pvp more fair.

[Maronu]

Agreed. And making it impossible to heal teammates like it is in bsq is not a fun or good solution.
I think I've said this before, but what if the hp boost received during pvp was removed? With the current pvp hp, healing skills could probably be toned down to healing only 1/10th what they currently do (but such a change should only be implemented for pvp).

[Rimmy]

I'm thinking it might be best to go with a three-part solution for PvP:

1. Nerf the heal amount for all heals.
2. Set MP cost for all heals at a (reasonable) % of maximum MP.
3. Double cooldowns on all heals except for Wide; triple cooldown for Wide (18 seconds).

Using myself as an example, here's the breakdown (assuming my typical PvP build w/ 60Kish HP and 20Kish MP):

- Slow Heal: 5% MP cost, heal up to 1.5%/3% (level 5/10) max HP every 3 seconds for 30 seconds, 10-second cooldown. That's 900 HP per heal tick, 9,000 HP total with level 5 Slow Heal or 1,800 HP per heal tick, 18,000 HP total with level 10 Slow Heal. 1,000 MP cost.

- HP Restore: 5% MP cost, heal up to 5% (level 5) max HP every 5 seconds for 25 seconds, 20-second cooldown. That's 3,000 HP per heal tick, 15,000 HP total, with level 5 HP Restore (level 5 is max). This skill has a considerably longer cast time than Slow Heal. 1,000 MP cost.

- Wide Heal: 7.5% MP cost, heal up to 15%/30% (level 5/10) max HP, 18-second cooldown. That's 9,000 HP per heal with level 5 Wide Heal, or 18,000 HP per heal with level 10. Keep in mind, even with Casting Acceleration, this skill has a brief cast time you can interrupt, and a much smaller AoE than Instant. 1,500 MP cost.

- Instant Heal: 10% MP cost, heal up to 15%/30% (level 5/10) max HP, 16- or 20-second cooldown. That's 9,000 HP per heal with level 5. Level 10 would be 18,000 HP per heal with a 20-second cooldown. 2,000 MP cost.

This is just a starting point idea -- it may be too harsh, or it may not be harsh enough. Honestly, it would be hard to tell without testing it with these changes in PvP, IMO. But I think it strikes a good balance between utility and cost, so that heals would still be able to play a meaningful role in battles, but would not be nearly as spammable as they are now.

The one issue with this I'm not sure how to tackle is MP Recovery/Recovery Speed. Because using my full MP Recovery gear, I can regen close to .5-.6% of my max MP every second, which would mean I could use heals almost indefinitely, anyways. On the flipside, MP Recovery gear tends to force the player to sacrifice a lot of other beneficial stats, although I don't think it would be enough to mean balance in this case.

[Nhat]

The nerf on changes to healing would be good for pvp; however, in pve at dungeon such as elga where healing is needed quite a lot, most involker wont be able to keep healing their party member unless they use yogurt or other instant mp healing items because mp pot wont restore mp fast enough.

[Rimmy]

Yeah, that's why it should be a PvP-only change. There are plenty of skills that are balanced just fine if they stay the same in PvE and PvP, but heals really just don't work across all spectrums like that.

[Bicho]

i think the mayor problems is not if u can heal or not... The problems is the cowards who use heal then run till their HP is totally full and compared with some classes which are SLOW or simply have not skill to large ataks this turn hard.

So... I am agree with nerf heal skills and i am agree with Rim, use a HEAL/Support class with NO heal... is pretty hard.

[tainguyen]

Considering the amount it heals vs mp cost, I think its fine. I hope you mean max mp for the percentage.

Anyways, we really don't know how this will work unless tested.