106 replies to this topic

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I don't know if we have been so spoiled long enough to not realize now that MVPs are supposed to be hard, non solo-able monsters, with a nice reward. Or like, *some* MVPs being soloable but requiring super gear and supplies.

MVPs in like, go in solo, kill the MVP in seconds, logout to save HE gum are really sad. I hope that the new summoning ends being a new fun option to poke with a small group once in a while.

Also, I think the requirement of the drop would block many players from using the summoner. It would be better if the limit is the EMB badge cost and the instance difficulty, not the extra requirement drops.

I might agree, but at the moment MVP's are neither hard, nor particularly rewarding (at least the ones you can get from the summoner). And in order to get the truly rewarding drops you have to kill them 100000000000000000000 times.

Unlike many modern MMO, RO doesn't have any challenging 'boss monsters' that you can just go out and fight for fun easily. It's just a ton of regular mobs to grind on, which can get monotonous quite fast, and sparse minibosses who respawn every 3-4 hours rather than instantly. I don't see anything wrong with making the boss monsters more accessable to regular mid-level players.

Also, Ant Jaw an Tiger Skin will never be used for summoning. They can be easily created by genetics.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 15 March 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[Froggems]

Created?

[Luckywhiterabbit]

Yes, created. It's a skill called 'change material'.

http://irowiki.org/w...Change_Material

As you can see, Ant Jaws can be created easily and in volumes, too.

[Froggems]

Oh right that skill, I was wiggin out and forgot about it.

[aquaria]

Just curious, doesn't the old mvp summoner requires those items to summon mvp? Unless they changed the items to summon Eddga and Phreeoni.

Tiger Skin - http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/1029/
Ant Jaw - http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/1014/
Fragment of Rossata Stone - http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/7211/
Gemstone - http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/7300/

[Xellie]

that summoner was designed before third classes

[Pres]

I guess it doesn't sound bad. I was hoping to increase the HP and maybe the drop rate slightly as well. But at least you made this thread to ask for our opinions beforehand, which I really like.

[Andini]

don't think he was asking for our opinions, and even if he did, would it matter?

[Rate]

nope

[CeruleanGamer]

Requirement: Bad
Challenge: AWESOME !!

Screw the requirement. If you put back the 10 hour cooldown, I got no problem for it.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I think most of us would be ok with the new challenge provided. I mean, yeah, it could be fun...but I think most agree that adding MVP drops to the requirements is not going to be popular.

[Kadnya]

RO MvPs need to be more challenging and more rewarding... it doesn't always has to be the MvP card as a drop in order to be rewarding.

Did anyone try to do the Orc dungeon instance in prerenewal? The dungeon had a small story, repeatable, required more than one chara to be cleared, ended with an MVP... which wasn't fully rewarding unless you got the lucky drop.

Maybe small instances like that could end with a small reward which always happens for the party, like supplies, WPS tokens, a few zeny, some exp for everyone kinda like a killcount... It would be interesting to have instances like that.

[Hrothmund]

Not so worried about the challenge, I mean I dont party for a number of reasons (timezone among the highest) and yeah the item requirement is a bit on the annoying side esp if it requires MVP specific loot to summon said MVP, meaning popular MVP's will ONLY be summoned by the 24/7 campers.

Its not impossible to get the materials though (you can do first few levels of ET) but it would make it a once a week thing instead of daily.

Keep in mind people solo ET, they solo Nyd and pretty much any other instance that comes out because partying is not rewarding and incredibly tedious to setup. Unlike TI's though, you can't recruit random people for obvious reasons so Summoner partying is about 100x more difficult.

I like to log on and go do something immediately, I dont have time/patience for games that use "group" activity recruitment as a timesink. I think its partly why a lot of people like RO as opposed to the more generic MMO's that require a party to get anything productive done.

Edited by Hrothmund, 17 March 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[simca437]

mvp token====>bad bad ,really really bad,very very very very bad idea
i hate u heim!!

[Kiehl]

I find the token requirement completely wrong as well.
Only workaround would be to get one token for the MVP you killed at 100% chance as reward for completing the instance.

[CheddarJack]

I feel that the summoner shouldnt need anything other than EMB to get in if you have VIP or as heim put it "Fake VIP"...I dont think there should be a need to have some kind of item just to get in ALONG with 1 EMB.

I feel like that if you wan2 make this more party oriented then make it so that after the MVP you get something like WPC or some other kind of guild supply. Something to make it worth hunting MVP's. Maybe give out different amounts of reward at the end depending on the MVP killed. So for example Killing Ifrit will net you more reward than just killing eddga. I would also think that taking away a death penalty while inside the instance would be a nice addition as well. I think more people would join in knowing that even if they mess up and cant go back they at least they didnt waste exp.

Speaking of which that was another flaw i think was bad in the summoner...if you got wiped by accident or made a mistake and wasnt able to be revived you couldnt go back and destroy the mvp. I think to counter this you should do what ET has. If you dont come back after a certain amount of time then the instance gets closed down. After which the cool down begins for however long you wan2 set it (10 hours seems like a resonable amount for the summoner).

[Talvis]

Wow, there's a lot of anti-social people here. Personally, I don't think mvps should ever be soloable. This is a sign that they are far too easy. Granted my only regular mmorpg experience is RO, so maybe soloing bossess is normal in other mmos. But, the way I look at it, a boss, if you fight one that's meant to be a challenge to your level, should require a party to take down. Even though a low level could be soloed by a higher leveled chara, there sholuld be no incentive to do so. However, due to RO's design and drop table, low level mvps will always be a target for high leveled charas.
Now, this instance summoner idea is a good idea. But, as others have said, perhaps the enterance requirements should be looked at.

[ultra39]

IMO, skills like Acid Bomb and gfist are to blame for the "lack of challenge" in mvps. These skills deal too much damage that many mvps often die very quickly, and reduces a lot of the need to have a party. This damage also cuts down on the need to have other dps classes around to help.

The other problem with these skills, is that if kRO decides that an mvp needs an hp buff, it's basically just to make it take more gfists or acid bombs to kill it, rather than genuinely making it harder to kill. It just creates a bigger gap between suras and geneticists, and every other class that tries to mvp, and still fails to facilitate any need of having a party to get the job done.

Of course, some mvps are just ridiculously easy to tank to begin with...

[Talvis]

Based on my observations of gfist, which may be way off since I've never played a monk/champ/sure, is that the damage output is only overpowered because it can be spammed. If it had a unbreakable cooldown between uses it wouldn't be so bad. But, all you need to spam it is either a Scholar or large sp restoring item pool. If you could only gfist once every 3 min or so it wouldn't be so overpowered.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

Wow, there's a lot of anti-social people here. Personally, I don't think mvps should ever be soloable. This is a sign that they are far too easy. Granted my only regular mmorpg experience is RO, so maybe soloing bossess is normal in other mmos. But, the way I look at it, a boss, if you fight one that's meant to be a challenge to your level, should require a party to take down. Even though a low level could be soloed by a higher leveled chara, there sholuld be no incentive to do so. However, due to RO's design and drop table, low level mvps will always be a target for high leveled charas.
Now, this instance summoner idea is a good idea. But, as others have said, perhaps the enterance requirements should be looked at.

I disagree. I feel that all bosses except for end-game should be solo-able, and that partying should be a 'for fun' option to make it easier/cheaper. Soloing a boss though, should be a show of skill and only the most dedicated players should be able to do so.

And yes, in other MMO's, boss or miniboss monsters are a lot more common and designed to be soloed. Gravity's own Dragon Saga has a very satisfying boss system, where the more players you have in your party, the more HP an instanced boss will have. I know that a lot of other MMO's employ this tactic, but it essentially keeps boss encounters fun whether you have a party or not.

An MMO shouldn't pidgeon-hole players into sociallising if they don't want to. The great thing about this genre is that it could or should be played however the player desires. That's what makes it a role-playing game. Do you want to be a lone wolf who takes on the world by himself and is known by very few? Or a guildsman who works as a team with others and is popular? You should be allowed to do and succeed at both with enough dedication.

[Xellie]

I can solo any boss in this game, just try and stop me. =/

A few monsters won't.

Edited by Xellie, 18 March 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Kenichi]

lol. a few monsters wont change most from soloing them , but will cost time and expeneses, except when you'r decked with god items.

[HayrohsLegacy]

Wow, there's a lot of anti-social people here. Personally, I don't think mvps should ever be soloable. This is a sign that they are far too easy. Granted my only regular mmorpg experience is RO, so maybe soloing bossess is normal in other mmos. But, the way I look at it, a boss, if you fight one that's meant to be a challenge to your level, should require a party to take down. Even though a low level could be soloed by a higher leveled chara, there sholuld be no incentive to do so. However, due to RO's design and drop table, low level mvps will always be a target for high leveled charas.
Now, this instance summoner idea is a good idea. But, as others have said, perhaps the enterance requirements should be looked at.

Indeed MVPs are ez and soloable with certain classes, so what me and my friends did to make it somewhat challenging again was making perma 99/70 classes and gang-rape a MVP available with our convex leftovers, but after all these market-breaking updates we quit MVP-ing coz obviously its not that rewarding anymore (or maybe when some ppl has still need of certain loots) but well since they are trying their best to update these summoner instances, I'm only hoping for 2 words; "challenging" & "rewarding"

To Heim: Good work about the "fake VIP" thing, at least everyone can still have fun with your plans.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

Yeah, the fake VIP idea is nice, since any player can earn reset stones by playing normally, VIP or not.

[Allysia]

I think that kill some monsters before isn't a problem, since if you kill the MVPs on the maps, usually you have to deal with the monsters around. Anyway the story of the Tokens, isn't good, cos this doesn't help the persons that took part to the summoner cos they couldn't see the MVPs on the fields. So would be appreciated remove this kind of requirement, and make the summoner something useful for all users.