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#51 BobDylan

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 03:58 PM

Well, I hope these "skill changes" come pretty soon, so we can start hoping for the friends list update. Then everybody can start complaining about how awful the skill change update was. lol
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#52 MUSETH

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:59 AM

A survey could have been cool in order to check players priority: What should we change in first ? Skill changes or friend list ? Things can be democratic.
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#53 nikst3r

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:35 AM

A survey could have been cool in order to check players priority: What should we change in first ? Skill changes or friend list ? Things can be democratic.


indeed, like a "wishlist" We can all add things and vote for it, once there our enough votes (fe a min. of 15) the idea could be taken into consideration by the Rose team.

Just like the LEGO cuusco project, you might know it =). People add their ideas, fully worked out, and when it hits 10.000 supporters the LEGO team picks up the idea to develop! :thumb2:
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#54 Calanor

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:16 PM

Here is a good question. Where in your business sense, do you think it is better to add an entire new system to something that needs other fixings first? Isn't the idea to fix, THEN move on? Where would skill changes be more important then implenting back one of the most important aspects of this game....communication. Yes, you can use the excuse of all chat, clan chat, chatrooms, and whisper, but the one on one friends list guaranteed if you ask anyone here, is our most reliant way of communicating with each other. I get the fact that you guys are excited about this new "game arena", and we all are. But in any industry, whether it be gaming or whatever, you always fix the problems before moving on.... at least that is what I always learned with business ethic. The game arena is important, but clearly not as important as friends list. You have multiple people complaining about this what seems to be all the time, but you can barely get people to play on Pegasus for testing of your new game arena. Hmmm, seems like your community wants other things first. I really AM excited for this skill changes and game arena, etc. But I think you should fix the normal of this game first, THAN add new content.

It just seems like what you are doing is completely backwards and doesn't make sense. Just fix the things we already have and want back, then give us new stuff. Could it really hold back the new skill changes and game arena that long... if you focused on the friends list? Like I already said, it doesn't seem like most are too caring/worried about the game arena anyways, or at least enough to even get on Pegasus and sign up for the games to test :/. Sorry for the hard truth, but that is what it is.


I will keep this short.

The skill changes in terms of span of time is short enough that its priority is placed in front of the friends list because in the grand scheme of things can be done o we can get to updating the skills and allow ourselves to move forward.

The Friends List changes are not simple, the reason for the disabling it was due to the severity of the code issues and re-modeling the system at that time wasn't something that could be easily done, it is not going to be a simple project in a sense of time so there for the skills take priority in terms of project order not importance.

Everything else is just you trying to twist things into knots that don't need to be tied together.

We know the importance of the Friends List, this isn't a debate on importance this is an issue of TIME. We are working as much as possible to get things done. I am no longer going to comment on the Friends List or debate schedules as its a horse I am tired of trying to keep alive that so easily just gets beaten dead. We Are Aware, We Are Moving Forward.
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#55 SirSlayer

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:31 PM

I will keep this short.

The skill changes in terms of span of time is short enough that its priority is placed in front of the friends list because in the grand scheme of things can be done o we can get to updating the skills and allow ourselves to move forward.

The Friends List changes are not simple, the reason for the disabling it was due to the severity of the code issues and re-modeling the system at that time wasn't something that could be easily done, it is not going to be a simple project in a sense of time so there for the skills take priority in terms of project order not importance.

Everything else is just you trying to twist things into knots that don't need to be tied together.

We know the importance of the Friends List, this isn't a debate on importance this is an issue of TIME. We are working as much as possible to get things done. I am no longer going to comment on the Friends List or debate schedules as its a horse I am tired of trying to keep alive that so easily just gets beaten dead. We Are Aware, We Are Moving Forward.


Hmm. I'm sorry but I still don't see the business sense in your logic of doing things in any form of the matter. You can say I twist things but I can be very blunt if you like. In a simple comparison, you are stating that you are McDonalds and your #1 thing, your Big Mac, is not being produced for its customers, just worry about it later, and keep sending out other things. You are diminishing what your entire game is about. This game is terrible without community interaction of some sort in many opinions. I'm not saying put off the Game Arena, but in every sense of business, why would you put project order over importance? I'm not sure you are even thinking out what you are typing, I mean I'm far from arguing with you and I hope you don't take it that way, as it is rather just debate on things that don't make sense, especially coming from someone of your position. In any business, important matters especially matters of what keeps your customers happy, and is a HUGE part of what your business is, you would focus on that, then offer/present new things.

If you know the importance, then work on that first. Why are you so adamant on putting this new "not as important" game arena in, if in all actuality its not as important as the friends list. I completely understand that the Friends List might take longer than putting the Game Arena in, but give the customer(your paycheck) what they want... which is their community. To you it might not seem so important, which is obvious because you are not a general player as the rest of us, and if you are...then you should know that a friends list is wanted more than this Game Arena. Also I find it a little funny you are replying "beating a dead horse" meaning you are replying alot about people wanting the friends list back, but yet they can't even fill the Game Arena for ONE game to test it. Seems like importance should come over project order.

Also think about this in terms of success and failure. What if the Game Arena is a success in the players eyes...now we can't really discuss it among each other the ways we want to, we have to go every other round about way. What is the Game Arena is a failure and nobody likes/cares about it, then people have a failed PVP update, and still no friends list. If we have a friends community back BEFORE the Game Arena, whether we like the Game Arena or not, we can at the VERY LEAST, fall back into the 85% social interaction game this game has become. << I think my proof that this game is a social game only pretty much now is, look at TG, look at Union Wars, mainly leechers, or completely 1 sided wars, shops filled with item mall just to get rich and clans and friends doing nothing but standing around at clan spots and other places just....talking.

You can call it beating a dead horse and always add your "I'm not going to reply, this is final word" agenda onto every thread you post in, as if basically putting us all in our place and for us to just shut up about it cause you said so, but that is not gonna stop us from saying our opinion...especially when my charges pay for your paycheck and others. Sorry but those are facts. I hope you look at none of this as an attack or "pissing contest" or whatever, it is reality, and I'm far from letting anyone stop me from stating my opinion, or me "twisting things in knots". Come on, really? How can you say that I'm twisting things in knots, when every week, you guys do something that goes wrong and we get little to no info for us to know what happened, or some random twist of how things turnout (you guys epically failed an update, and others got banned, and/or had to go through over 5-6back and forth messages/tickets to you guys to get their stuff back, which in reality...was your fault not ours) and people just get more and more disappointed and you just throw your "final word"(I am no longer going to comment) agenda on us. It is like you don't even want to discuss, but yet we're supposed to give our opinions for feedback. Maybe you should implement a green/red light on each topic you guys present...so we know if we are allowed to give opinions or not.

Am I bad guy for saying all of this? Or am I just trying to speak up for what many others are afraid of saying and getting in trouble in some way about? Please understand when you have read this that I'm not trying to be the bad guy and/or a jerk to you, I'm just trying to have an adult debate with you on these things that affect a lot of people, and in my opnion if things keep going this way, you won't have this community problem as much later on....cause you won't have a community for this game. This game is RAPIDLY going down, and you fail to see it happen right in front you.

Edited by SirSlayer, 03 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.

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#56 K0rey

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:00 PM

I will keep this short.

The skill changes in terms of span of time is short enough that its priority is placed in front of the friends list because in the grand scheme of things can be done o we can get to updating the skills and allow ourselves to move forward.

The Friends List changes are not simple, the reason for the disabling it was due to the severity of the code issues and re-modeling the system at that time wasn't something that could be easily done, it is not going to be a simple project in a sense of time so there for the skills take priority in terms of project order not importance.

Everything else is just you trying to twist things into knots that don't need to be tied together.

We know the importance of the Friends List, this isn't a debate on importance this is an issue of TIME. We are working as much as possible to get things done. I am no longer going to comment on the Friends List or debate schedules as its a horse I am tired of trying to keep alive that so easily just gets beaten dead. We Are Aware, We Are Moving Forward.

We're going to keep beating that horse to death until it turns into a unicorn and makes magic happen.
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#57 shokwavez

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:31 PM

Lol.Concerned about time..because they neglect the issues till now. Moving forward yet people are already gone and leaving. Of course there's also the possibility of players

coming back when better updates and patches come into fruition, but it's just what..what year are we in? Oh that's right.. we're a couple years too late? It is sad..very.. very..

VERY sad. Cause I know the developers are trying their best with the limited members on their team, but why wait till now to start hiring? Are they really just seeing the decline in

the community now? JUST NOW?! Really? I mean come on. Ha.. No. But I'm going to keep reiterating these questions that killed the game. Why they nerfed drops? Why they

nerfed exp? Why they nerfed spawn rates? They've told us that players we're progressing way too fast in this game that's why. They intentionally ruined it for us.



And for a while now this happened - the Friends list. Many might not take it as a serious problem, but at the games current state it was just another chat room with characters you

can run around in. But now even that's gone and won't be back for god know's how long. What exactly is there to look forward to? I don't see it anything at all. Even with the new

crystal wars I don't see it. The limited effort in the developing team was apparent. It's just too late.

Just far too late .. Very very very sad.

Edited by shokwavez, 03 April 2012 - 05:13 PM.

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#58 SirSlayer

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:41 PM

Lol.Concerned about time..because they neglect the issues till now. Moving forward yet people are already gone and leaving. Of course there's also the possibility of players coming back when better updates

and patches come into fruition, but it's just what..what year are we in? Oh that's right.. we're a couple years too late? It is sad..very.. very.. VERY sad. Cause I know the developers are trying their best with the limited members on their

team, but why wait till now to start hiring? Are they really just seeing the decline in the community now? JUST NOW?! Really? I mean come on. Ha.. No. But I'm going to keep reiterating these questions that killed the game. Why they

nerfed drops? Why they nerfed exp? Why they nerfed spawn rates? They've told us that players we're progressing way too fast in this game that's why. They intentionally ruined it for us.



And for a while now this happened - the Friends list. Many might not take it as a serious problem, but at the games current state it was just another chat room with characters you can run around in. But now even that's gone and

won't be back for god know's how long. What exactly is there to look forward to? I don't see it anything at all. Even with the new crystal wars I don't see it. The limited effort in the developing team was apparent. It's just too late.

Just far too late .. Very very very sad.


I agree completely. I like where you said their excuse for nerfing things. Because the fact is, if we were lvling so fast, than they should've developed more things for the game, just like any other game. The problem is, they are too worried about this new Game Arena, which is a replacement of Union Wars, which most people don't even play Union Wars either...so what makes them think people are gonna be MORE interested in the Game Arena? How about a higher lvl cap, another planet, more rewardable fun quests(costumes, etc. and not just xp). I know people will say that the community cannot even fill the map of junon polis city, and yes that is true. But that is only cause people end up quitting and the community gets smaller and smaller by the day, simply because you have no new content for people to play. If this game kept building in the right ways, and kept being interesting and not the chat room with walk around characters as shokwavez put it(very well put), then word might get out that people should play and the game would be fun again.

Here is the point they are making by nerfing everything. We can't/don't want to keep up with constant creating of new content, so we will nerf the players ability to get places, so it seems like their is more content and more to do. You are just watering down the lemonade, making is stretch farther, but the end result is still the same......broken community system, with little to no improvements. :/

Their best form of advertisement is ALWAYS your customer, its advertisement with proof. Yet every week they ignore, and ruin that main form of advertisement.

*sigh*

Edited by SirSlayer, 03 April 2012 - 04:44 PM.

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#59 BobDylan

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:59 PM

I'm not sure; I mean I understand the reason that a lot of people are genuinely upset about the loss of the friends list, and it's totally understandable.

However, I'm having a hard time connecting that to the idea that the Devs are, intentionally or unintentionally, destroying the game.

In the past, I've worked as a network administrator, and I sympathize with the Dev's decision to disable such an important component of the game.

Keep it in mind that before they disabled the friends list, a while back I know, they did so because it was causing the servers to crash at an unsettling regularity.

As far as the order of priority goes, I think that's up to them and their team to decide since they are the only ones that have a full picture of the situation.

Besides, from what I've seen from Pegasus I think that the game arena is going to be one of the best additions to the game in a long time, and not just for PvP.

Not that I am making new content like the game arena or the class balancing effort into a defense, but in a way I guess I am.

At any rate, what I want from the devs is the same thing that I've always wanted from them.

I want the very best game that they can make, and I can be very very patient... If I see progress in the right direction... and I do.
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#60 shokwavez

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

Yea. I mean I'm not trying to bash on them. I'm just saying how I feel about it. I know they're trying and they gave a legit reason as to why the Friend's list is still down, but how long

does it take.. Againthe lack of members in their team of course but I just don't know anymore. I do want the game to stay alive if not grow and pick itself up. But the declining number

of people is evidence enough that it's far too late. With the addition of the huge character login crash. Ohh man. It's just not helping. I'm patient too, I still login only to the fact that I

have met really down to earth people and consider them real close to me. It's the only reason I still play. Union war..pvp..updates..item mall..lucky spin are just bonuses to me now.

Really is sad. Cause I've seen everything from the beginning to now.

Edited by shokwavez, 03 April 2012 - 09:17 PM.

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#61 dMz09

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:07 PM

They have a to change their way of prioritizing things and actually listen to their customers. I have seen way too many posts by Calanor and other GMs saying something on the basis of "this is whats going to happen and i wont be replying about this matter again".

You have a large number of bugs and a team who doesn't show any sense that they care. They treat you like kids when in reality, you should be treated like a customer. In the end, without the customers, they are nothing at all.

Start listening to the people who matter!

Yea. It I mean I'm not trying to bash on them. I'm just saying how I feel about it. I know they're trying and they gave a legit reason as to why the Friend's list is still down, but how long

does it take.. Againthe lack of members in their team of course but I just don't know anymore. I do want the game to stay alive if not grow and pick itself up. But the declining number

of people is evidence enough that it's far too late. With the addition of the huge character login crash. Ohh man. It's just not helping. I'm patient too, I still login only to the fact that I

have met really down to earth people and consider them real close to me. It's the only reason I still play. Union war..pvp..updates..item mall..lucky spin are just bonuses to me now.

Really is sad. Cause I've seen everything from the beginning to now.


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#62 shokwavez

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

Yea I believe that's what the Senators are for. They're supposed to adhere to what we the people are trying to reach out to them. And the Senators that we have now know their stuff (like Oerba and Phish)
But as I browse through the forums, sometimes I see that they don't even consider what they say.
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#63 dMz09

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:31 PM

I definitely agree with what you are saying here. Oerba and Phish know more about this game than most people and could provide the best possible input on behalf of the rose community. While it is understandable that not all requests can be completed due to time/funding constraints, it would be nice if more of their suggestions were seriously implemented.

Yea I believe that's what the Senators are for. They're supposed to adhere to what we the people are trying to reach out to them. And the Senators that we have now know their stuff (like Oerba and Phish)
But as I browse through the forums, sometimes I see that they don't even consider what they say.


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#64 shokwavez

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

Well if the time and funding were the issues. Hopefully it'll set off a chain reaction when they hire the new people. Hopefully by then we'll start seeing more stuff being implemented based upon
not only from the suggestions of Oerba and Phish, but everyone's suggestions/thoughts/ideas in the proposal threads.
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#65 SirSlayer

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:55 AM

I'm not sure; I mean I understand the reason that a lot of people are genuinely upset about the loss of the friends list, and it's totally understandable.

However, I'm having a hard time connecting that to the idea that the Devs are, intentionally or unintentionally, destroying the game.

In the past, I've worked as a network administrator, and I sympathize with the Dev's decision to disable such an important component of the game.

Keep it in mind that before they disabled the friends list, a while back I know, they did so because it was causing the servers to crash at an unsettling regularity.

As far as the order of priority goes, I think that's up to them and their team to decide since they are the only ones that have a full picture of the situation.

Besides, from what I've seen from Pegasus I think that the game arena is going to be one of the best additions to the game in a long time, and not just for PvP.

Not that I am making new content like the game arena or the class balancing effort into a defense, but in a way I guess I am.

At any rate, what I want from the devs is the same thing that I've always wanted from them.

I want the very best game that they can make, and I can be very very patient... If I see progress in the right direction... and I do.


I'm not upset we lost the friends list, I'm fine with something having to go to get fixed. I'm upset along with many others at the fact that not only is it not back yet, but they are refusing to see its' imporatance, or better yet KNOW its' imporatance, but would rather still put it off over the Game Arena which over half your community cares nothing about. Yes it is sad that people don't care about Game Arena, but maybe if they fixed the friends list first, we could start whispering our friends and saying "yo download pegasus, and test with us", rather than put it in some general/clan/etc. chat, where it gets so impersonal, and people tend not to care.

I don't think they are trying to destroy the game, but it is quite obvious by the community and the lack of overall gameplay that they are. Walk around Junon at even the "busiest" of times in the game. You have at most 15 people in TG(over half are afk), one sided Union Wars(both sides are filled with leechers(EVERY WAR), there are more people vending then playing, and everyone else who is on, is talking or just plain afk. It is sad and you know you have a problem when you have more people AFK then playing the game.

Through my bitterness and blunt opinions I want the same things you do. I want them to succeed, I want this game to surpass others and so I can tell people again that this game is worth checking out and playing. Fact is, even with this new Game Arena coming, and even if it is a complete success, is it still worth telling others to check it out anymore or not? Hmmmm very hard to say. Problem is, the DEV's read what we/I am saying, and get annoyed and/or laugh about it and brush it off along with many others opinions on this game. Why would I "complain" or in my eyes give constructive criticism if I didn't care about this game ya know?

This is pointless though, Calanor put his "Im not replying" daily agenda, and won't talk about a matter, as usual...which sucks, cause even though he probably thinks we dislike him or something, I value his opinion just as much as anyone elses.

Edited by SirSlayer, 04 April 2012 - 12:56 AM.

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#66 KingsBane

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:24 AM

I got an answer to my original post friends list is on the to do list oh dear. Anytime soon seems unlikely. I was wondering about development and new content I remember lady psyber( before her vacation) saying gravity bought orlo from jrose or its developers now I dont know if that is true but it sure makes sense since no more content has ever been added since. Hiring new devs is fine but many threads before asked how many devs worked on rose and the vague answers we got hinted that there were at least 4. If four or more people have worked for over 2 years with no new content with the exception of the bountiful item mall work I just wonder. We and I mean everyone could have learned some programming and created a game in 2 plus years the games might be bad and full of bugs but we would produce content. Two or three years with zero content is a fail in any business model i ever heard of.
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#67 maldini

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:04 AM

They just assume that game arena is the most anticipated thing that everyone would love to have and ignore the reality that currently the friend list issues really annoyed most of the players.

Btw, from the past experience.... I don't look forward to the day of game arena update at all. I am expecting some huge problems here and there.

Anyway, I will b more than happy for them to prove me wrong!
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#68 SirSlayer

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:54 AM

Why should we care about a game arena and how you are so "hard at work" with getting it ready...when you don't care enough about us to fix the things your community wants fixed first, and even by your responses are more important? lol smh.
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#69 Zurn

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:23 AM

Let me ask you something, if you started a big project (aka the game arena/crystal wars) would you want to be stopped on and off to fix other things and depending on how long your away from that project it could take you time to get back into it, yeah it does suck not having the friends list but why not focus on finishing 1 thing at a time? In the end there might be less bugs and problems with it.
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#70 SirSlayer

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:55 AM

Let me ask you something, if you started a big project (aka the game arena/crystal wars) would you want to be stopped on and off to fix other things and depending on how long your away from that project it could take you time to get back into it, yeah it does suck not having the friends list but why not focus on finishing 1 thing at a time? In the end there might be less bugs and problems with it.


You are right that it sucks having to stop a project constantly to fix things, but that is business and that is life. You don't just ignore and keep trucking then later come back to it, whenever you feel it is necessary. Necessary is what is making your business to keep going, your community/players. Game Arena is making them NO money right now, we are. I'll use what I know professionally as an example. If I'm famous/known for a certain food/dish/sandwich/etc.(I'm a chef), and all of a sudden something goes wrong to where I'm not able to serve that dish, I'm not gonna put it off until later because right now I'm working on some new food/dish/etc.. I'm going to put that project that nobody even knows about/cares about yet, and I'm gonna work on what matters first. I agree they should focus on one thing at a time, which should be the friends list, the most personal and reliant communication system in the game. I would never say "ok guys, you aren't gonna be able to get one of the main aspects you came here for, until I'm done with this new project of mine".... come on lol. There is not one ounce of professionalism or sense in making that kind of a decision. Like I said, what if this Game Arena fails, now you have two failed systems, community and game arena lol. Then they are in an even worse boat they are already in.

I fail to sympathize with a company that not only has put off this stuff for so long, but now that they say they are doing stuff, they are prioritizing like a 10yr. old, lets care about what we want first, then work on other stuff lol smh.

Also again, nobody seems to care enough about this Game Arena enough that they need to be rushing to push this new system out. Proof is in quantity of people testing. The truth hurts, but the truth can't be mistaken or twisted.
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#71 maldini

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:25 AM

In some company, they have a maintenance team (daily support and bug fixing) and development team (new proj and enhancement).... U may want to consider that model so that u won't have this issue of prioritisation again.
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#72 Dusk1PS

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:28 AM

Let me ask you something, if you started a big project (aka the game arena/crystal wars) would you want to be stopped on and off to fix other things and depending on how long your away from that project it could take you time to get back into it, yeah it does suck not having the friends list but why not focus on finishing 1 thing at a time? In the end there might be less bugs and problems with it.



That happens in the real(business) world...a lot. I should know...I'm in the middle of 3 different projects as we speak at my job...and i'm not anyone important. I need to be able to shift gears on a moments notice. That is a professional.

A professional is someone who can juggle all of that responsibility. This isn't a classroom. It's not one assignment at a time, then onto the next. This is a job. Be able to do it, and do it right.

Friends list is pretty damn crucial to the game. It is one of the major communication networks for our game. How will you even be able to gather 2-15 people to join the Game Arena, if you can't even remember all your friends account names to play with, if they're still AROUND by the time the damn thing is finally done(and debugged, cause you know that thing will be bugged to hell upon implimentation....like everything else)?

I'd rather they at least fix that.

Edited by Dusk1PS, 04 April 2012 - 06:31 AM.

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#73 KingsBane

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:29 AM

Fedora hats is priority!
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#74 Phish

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:30 AM

One thing I am curious about is that the friends list is still functional on Pegasus but not Leonis/Draconis.
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#75 DigitalIP

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:37 AM

Until the Friends list gets reinstated not much else you can do but write down the names of people you party with in a text doc for future reference. Sure the only way you'll know they are on is if you attempt to whisper or see them around but its better then nothing.

Honestly, if it was removed for stability reasons then im all for it, hell all the friends i had on it didnt play anymore or had changed names anyway and that was 7 years worth of friends.

Do i care? no not really.

If you are close to someone thats what Instant Messengers and email are for. If you have security concerns then make a new IM/Email specifically for talking to people you play with. its really not that hard to do.
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