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Buff Shadow Chasers' PvM Capabilities!


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#1 Ramen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:18 PM

So, I'm in the mood to complain right now (when am I not, right?)

I would really appreciate it if Gravity would buff Shadow Chasers. They are really one of the weakest classes in the game. They can hardly kill anything solo, and it's really annoying. Of course, what I'm talking about right now is PvM!

As most people are well aware, Shadow Chasers have pretty much ZERO naturally learned skills with which to level. Instead we have to resort to copying the skills of other classes in order to level at all. One common method recently is to copy Arrow Storm and use a highly upgraded Orc Archer's Bow, yet the amount of damage we can deal is relatively low and we quickly run out of monsters that we can 1 shot. Another leveling method is to copy Ignition Break and/or Bowling Bash and mob monsters, though this method I'm not very familiar with. I understand it requires some rather high level and expensive items in order to be efficient. The last method would be Shadow Spell. Needless to say, Shadow Spell leveling is very slow, and rather expensive.

Sadly, one of the few places a Shadow Chaser can level well is with a turn in party, and even then it can be difficult to justify your place in the party. There is pretty much nothing useful that a chaser can contribute, since they are merely weaker versions of the actual class they've copied skills from. When they can't get parties, Shadow Chasers have to solo, which they are as ill equipped to do as they are to party with other classes. I mean, for crying out loud, the recommended leveling spot for Shadow Chaser is to use Arrow Storm at Nogg Road floor 2 from the time they get Reproduce 10 till 125-130! What other 3rd class character is stuck leveling in that kind of low level dungeon for SO long, simply because there is NO BETTER PLACE to level?!

I suppose kRO was trying to give Shadow Chasers some leveling skills when they made Triangle Shot (>_>) and possibly Fatal Menace (lol,wut?), but they failed pretty spectacularly. There are a number of things I think kRO could do to address this issue, and I'm only going to list a couple, because I'd like some input from other chaser players as well. Possible fixes:

1)Vastly Improve Triangle Shot

2)Perhaps make a skill similar to sightless mind, with much larger AoE, and much higher dmg, that also doesn't require you to hide first (biggest drawback of SM)

3)Increase the chance of casting spells though Shadow Spell

4)Provide better weapons and gear specifically for Shadow Chaser, to improve damage in copied skills or something.

Anyway, in summary, for the love of all that is good, please buff Shadow Chasers. If it weren't for TI's, we'd be essentially forced to solo (which we don't do very well), since no one would want a chaser in party (since we don't have any useful PVM skills). Also, buff performer class too, they're in the same boat as us, only they're more useful in parties than we are. D:>

Edited by Ramen, 23 March 2012 - 05:53 PM.

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#2 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:23 PM

Lol. Shadow chasers don't have much pvm fighting power. Pvp seems to be their thing. Right now seems their best option is to copy arrow storm. Even then they only do like 1/5 the damage a ranger can. No white wing suits for them.
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#3 Chipotle

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

So, I'm in the mood to complain right now (when am I not, right?)

I would really appreciate it if Gravity would buff Shadow Chasers. They are really one of the weakest classes in the game. They can hardly kill anything solo, and it's really annoying. Of course, what I'm talking about right now is PvM!

As most people are well aware, Shadow Chasers have pretty much ZERO naturally learned skills with which to level. Instead we have to resort to copying the skills of other classes in order to level at all. One common method recently is to copy Arrow Storm and use a highly upgraded Orc Archer's Bow, yet the amount of damage we can deal is relatively low and we quickly run out of monsters that we can 1 shot. Another leveling method is to copy Ignition Break and/or Bowling Bash and mob monsters, though this method I'm not very familiar with. I understand it requires some rather high level and expensive items in order to be efficient. The last method would be Shadow Spell. Needless to say, Shadow Spell leveling is very slow, and rather expensive.

Sadly, one of the few places a Shadow Chaser can level well is with a turn in party, and even then it can be difficult to justify your place in the party. There is pretty much nothing useful that a chaser can contribute, since they are merely weaker versions of the actual class they've copied skills from. When they can't get parties, Shadow Chasers have to solo, which they are as ill equipped to do as they are to party with other classes. I mean, for crying out loud, the recommended leveling spot for Shadow Chaser is to use Arrow Storm at Nogg Road floor 2 from the time they get Reproduce 10 till 125-130! What other 3rd class character is stuck leveling in that kind of low level dungeon for SO long, simply because there is NO BETTER PLACE to level?!

I suppose kRO was trying to give Shadow Chasers some leveling skills when they made Triangle Shot (>_>) and possibly Fatal Menace (lol,wut?), but they failed pretty spectacularly. There are a number of things I think kRO could do to address this issue, and I'm only going to list a couple, because I'd like some input from other chaser players as well. Possible fixes:

1)Vastly Improve Triangle Shot

2)Perhaps make a skill similar to sightless mind, with much larger AoE, and much higher dmg, that also doesn't require you to hide first (biggest drawback of SM)

3)Increase the chance of casting spells though Shadow Spell

4)Provide better weapons and gear specifically for Shadow Chaser, to improve damage in copied skills or something.

Anyway, in summary, for the love of all that is good, please buff Shadow Chasers. If it weren't for TI's, we'd be essentially forced to solo (which we don't do very well), since no one would want a chaser in party (since we don't have any useful PVM skills). Also, buff performer class too, they're in the same boat as us, only they're more useful in parties than we are. D:>



.....
..

No.
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#4 Ramen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

.....
..

No.



Can you at least give your reasons for disagreeing? I don't mind that you do. I think it's fine to have diverging opinions, and frankly I think it helps to liven the discussion and improve the quality of the solution.
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#5 Xellie

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

.....
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No.


Why?

Chasers do have a really crappy time levelling.
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#6 Falcifer

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

Right now, chaser proportionally has it worse even than suras =\ fail pvm abilities, OP pvp/woe uses. It is rather disgusting with the balance patch nerfs, seeing as a firetrapping chaser was one of the cheapest and most reliable things to solo pvm or even up to mid-tier mvps. I do wish they got some of those abilities back, seeing as the balance patch demotivated me from job 50ing my chaser.
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#7 Tenshi143

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:38 PM


Out of the topic, but just want to point out that your "spoiler tagged" video gave me a hard laugh... xD
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#8 Jyunosayshi

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

Buff Feint Bomb pls T3T
It's a fun skill to use before using backslide XD
Why does it even have a cast delay, it does crappy damage ._.

Edited by Jyunosayshi, 22 March 2012 - 02:27 PM.

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#9 mooMOOmoo

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

What's the typical exp/hour of a chaser after balance patch?

Edited by mooMOOmoo, 22 March 2012 - 02:54 PM.

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#10 Agahim

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

it's a shame that a class is nowadays considered weak when they don't have spammable aoe skills that one shots everything.
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#11 Chipotle

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:05 PM

It hasnt been enough time since SC got nerfed to start QQ'in. GX's were-_- for the longest time. We bit our tongue and waited. Your turn to wait :)
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#12 Xellie

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:06 PM

It hasnt been enough time since SC got nerfed to start QQ'in. GX's were-_- for the longest time. We bit our tongue and waited. Your turn to wait :)


That's not even a discussion nor point.
If you wish to troll, door is to your left.
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#13 Chipotle

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

How is it a troll if I state my point of view o_O

I remember when SC, mobbed 30-40 venatu in Juperos and Firetrapped them to hell and beyond, while I was busy poking 1 venatu. My point is, be glad u still have some aoe skills & TIs to help with lvlin.

I dont object to Feint bomb getting a small buff, but understand this, SC are jack of all copied skills, master of none, and it should be this way.

Edited by Chipotle, 22 March 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#14 Xellie

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:15 PM

Need I clarify : "I play a GX and I sucked for ages so you have no right to complain" is not a useful, or nontroll comment. As a long time sin player myself, you make me sad.

How is it a troll if I state my point of view o_O

I remember when SC, mobbed 30-40 venatu in Juperos and Firetrapped them to hell and beyond, while I was busy poking 1 venatu. My point is, be glad u still have some aoe skills & TIs to help with lvlin.

I dont object to Feint bomb getting a small buff, but understand this, SC are jack of all copied skills, master of none, and it should be this way.


That's a semi fair point and all, except every skill they can copy to level effectively requires either specific gear or skill prereqs or dual wielding to be good (Arrow storm, Firing trap and cross impact respectively) - for what reason then should there need to be a double sp cost when they can only achieve 1/4~1/3 the damage, at best?
And triangle shot. LOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

I have really good gear, I've tried it. I can hit like 15k non endowed Arrow storms at best. (Im pure dex/int) and my SP is raped soooooo fast, it's ridiculous. Perhaps if double sp cost only applied in WoE, it would make sense, because that is where SC is overpowered.
But on the levelling field? What would they do without TIs? I got by being a mobber... lol. The only way they'd do it, would be by leeching. And that isn't really a good game mechanic to rely on.

Edited by Xellie, 22 March 2012 - 03:17 PM.

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#15 Falcifer

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

My main annoyance honestly is the nerf to masquerades, since that's what made SC a desirable support/killer for easier MVPing. A pity it was never allowed in ET =\ Although I suppose that would be a bit too OP...difficult to balance stuff like that ): Most other classes can offer at least something in ET, while chaser doesn't as far as I know
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#16 Chipotle

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:26 PM

Perhaps if double sp cost only applied in WoE, it would make sense, because that is where SC is overpowered.
But on the levelling field? What would they do without TIs? I got by being a mobber... lol. The only way they'd do it, would be by leeching. And that isn't really a good game mechanic to rely on.

The SP cost makes sense, but I believe the reason they did this was to ensure they arnt at par with the actual owners of the skill, 1.5 might be a compromise. My only beef with this thread is asking to buff the damage the class shells out.
As far as TIs go, ur supposed to pretend like ur doing a good job pulling..d'oh. jump some other puller's (in ur party) mob and make it look like u did all the work. If u have gears to do any damage/actually pull, do it.
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#17 Xellie

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

The SP cost makes sense, but I believe the reason they did this was to ensure they arnt at par with the actual owners of the skill, 1.5 might be a compromise. My only beef with this thread is asking to buff the damage the class shells out.
As far as TIs go, ur supposed to pretend like ur doing a good job pulling..d'oh. jump some other puller's (in ur party) mob and make it look like u did all the work. If u have gears to do any damage/actually pull, do it.


Wow, you're just a tiny a bit of a-_- aren't you sir?

First of all, I'm 150/50. I have access to eddgas, I backslide mob, I tend to overmob and kill my party if I think they suck. I don't need to justify myself to someone who comes in a topic only to spout nonsense to attempt provokation without actual discussion. You have no idea of the level of play I take part in or my experiences in the game. Talking down to me like some lil noob is rather insulting. So if you could kindly cut that out, maybe this discussion could go places. And maybe I'll be a bit nicer.

Secondly, you didn't even read what I said, or attempt to pretend that you did.
What I was saying is that if not for TIs, they wouldn't have any party role, how would they level?

They do need a levelling skill, if copying skills isn't viable. They can't be on par when they can't access the class specific gears or have the pre-reqs that make the skills good in the first place.
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#18 Easly

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:43 PM

chasers have the best disables in game and some of the best survivability, no way in hell should they be buffed.
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#19 candyZ

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:43 PM

So, I'm in the mood to complain right now (when am I not, right?)

I would really appreciate it if Gravity would buff Shadow Chasers. They are really one of the weakest classes in the game. They can hardly kill anything solo, and it's really annoying. Of course, what I'm talking about right now is PvM!



They should buff performers before even read your post
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#20 Dinosexy

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:50 PM

Has anyone tried cluster bomb as a chaser? I know it's not as good as old fire trap, but if it's anything similar to claymore trap leveling as a stalker it could be pretty viable (and more fun)
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#21 Ramen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:57 PM

chasers have the best disables in game and some of the best survivability, no way in hell should they be buffed.


I'm not trying to sound rude here, but have you ever tried to level a chaser? I've only been talking about PvM here. I think chasers are surely very strong in PvP/WoE, so I'm not worried about that. I'm frustrated with how stupid it is to try and level a chaser. The only other class that even comes close to the difficulty of leveling a chaser might be Wanderer/Minstrel, followed by Sura (I understand they lost a lot of their leveling ease after the balance patch)

Has anyone tried cluster bomb as a chaser? I know it's not as good as old fire trap, but if it's anything similar to claymore trap leveling as a stalker it could be pretty viable (and more fun)


I tried it pre-balance patch, and it was pretty useless then. I'm pretty sure if it had gotten good, there would have been a lot of buzz about the skill, so I have to assume it's still crappy.

Edited by Ramen, 22 March 2012 - 03:59 PM.

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#22 Chipotle

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

Wow, you're just a tiny a bit of a-_- aren't you sir?

First of all, I'm 150/50. I have access to eddgas, I backslide mob, I tend to overmob and kill my party if I think they suck. I don't need to justify myself to someone who comes in a topic only to spout nonsense to attempt provokation without actual discussion. You have no idea of the level of play I take part in or my experiences in the game. Talking down to me like some lil noob is rather insulting. So if you could kindly cut that out, maybe this discussion could go places. And maybe I'll be a bit nicer.

Secondly, you didn't even read what I said, or attempt to pretend that you did.
What I was saying is that if not for TIs, they wouldn't have any party role, how would they level?

They do need a levelling skill, if copying skills isn't viable. They can't be on par when they can't access the class specific gears or have the pre-reqs that make the skills good in the first place.

LOL? Do u really take things so personally? I was refering to the noobs who feel its impossible to lvl a shadow chase unless it gets buff. You have good stuff and can solo, good for you. What about the average Joe huh?You really need to stop trying to make this about you....sry im very blunt. This thread is about Chasers in general. I dont do drama, make personal attacks on anyone (unless they as for it). I would appreciate if you could maintain some sense of decency and avoid raging. I am not interested in having a rage war with you.


Back to this tread, I still stand by what I said, if you say this class if too hard for you to lvl and wont level till it has a buff, change ur class(No Xel this is not about u.....do I have to do this everytime I type?). Asking for a buff to triangle shot / bomb is fair and I dont mind supporting that. I will not support asking for buff for skills u copy.

Edited by Chipotle, 22 March 2012 - 04:23 PM.

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#23 Xellie

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:26 PM

LOL? Do u really take things so personally? I was refering to the noobs who feel its impossible to lvl a shadow chase unless it gets buff. You have good stuff and can solo, good for you. What about the average Joe huh?You really need to stop trying to make this about you....sry im very blunt. This thread is about Chasers in general. I dont do drama, make personal attacks on anyone (unless they as for it). I would appreciate if you could maintain some sense of decency and avoid raging. I am not want to have a rage war with you.


Back to this tread, I still stand by what I said, if you say this class if too hard for you to lvl and wont level till it has a buff, change ur class(No Xel this is not about u.....do I have to do this everytime I type?). Asking for a buff to triangle shot / bomb is fair and I dont mind supporting that. I will not support asking for buff for skills u copy.


If a high end player is saying that perhaps chasers need a way to level, then perhaps its not fair to flame on noobs for wanting to voice concerns too. Did you consider that? The average joe will have 10x harder of a time than myself, so why should I not defend their side? Should I say "I can do whatever I want however I want whenever I want, so its not an issue!" ?

SC damage will never match that of the originals when they copy a skill, so rather than a generation of people leeching chasers, why not just have the sp req normal on pvm maps and double in WoE.
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#24 Ramen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:33 PM

LOL? Do u really take things so personally? I was refering to the noobs who feel its impossible to lvl a shadow chase unless it gets buff. You have good stuff and can solo, good for you. What about the average Joe huh?You really need to stop trying to make this about you....sry im very blunt. This thread is about Chasers in general. I dont do drama, make personal attacks on anyone (unless they as for it). I would appreciate if you could maintain some sense of decency and avoid raging. I am not interested in having a rage war with you.


Back to this tread, I still stand by what I said, if you say this class if too hard for you to lvl and wont level till it has a buff, change ur class(No Xel this is not about u.....do I have to do this everytime I type?). Asking for a buff to triangle shot / bomb is fair and I dont mind supporting that. I will not support asking for buff for skills u copy.


Okay, first off, she was calling you on the fact that you were making what she called troll comments. Second, no one in this thread has said that it is impossible to level Shadow Chasers, nor has anyone said they wouldn't level their chaser unless it got buffed. Your original comments were indeed fairly trollish in nature, and frankly sounded pretty jaded. I don't feel like getting into that though.

The only thing I have stated is simple fact, Shadow Chaser is one of the worst/slowest classes in the entire game to level due to the fact that they have ZERO skills to solo efficiently, nor do they have a single useful role to contribute to party play that another class couldn't fill, with much more success in that role. You seem to support the thought of letting Shadow Chasers having their own skill to be able to level with, which is one of the things that I've advocated. It's not like we have to buff chaser's copying abilities, though it's certainly one route. I'd much rather you state why you feel it would be unbalanced or unfair to buff those copying abilities in order to make it at least a little less painful to level.
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#25 Dinosexy

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:50 PM

I tried it pre-balance patch, and it was pretty useless then. I'm pretty sure if it had gotten good, there would have been a lot of buzz about the skill, so I have to assume it's still crappy.


I think it was only comparatively bad pre balance? The damage was better than firetraps but it was less spammable since you can't place it under monsters

only problem is I can't remember if it got nerfed or not.
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