218 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

afaik it got buffed

[TheLastExile]

KriticalAssassin, on 22 March 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Lol. Shadow chasers don't have much pvm fighting power. Pvp seems to be their thing. Right now seems their best option is to copy arrow storm. Even then they only do like 1/5 the damage a ranger can. No white wing suits for them.

They do 50% less then Rangers do lol, the white wing set only adds 50% >.>

[Dinosexy]

Hot damn
Looks like I'll be making an alt ranger to actually get it then

@Exiled- Elven set, falcon eyes and camoflague on top of WW set gets pretty hardcore

[Falcifer]

TheLastExile, on 22 March 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

They do 50% less then Rangers do lol, the white wing set only adds 50% >.>

WW set and all those +dex self buffs (improve conc, falcon eye, etc) aren't the only things making rangers AS far more powerful. You forgot to factor in elven bow set bonus, which from what I know increases the dmg much further. I'd say 1/3 or so is more accurate than 50%, or even less if you're dealing with all those +11 elven bows

[Ramen]

Dinosexy, on 22 March 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I think it was only comparatively bad pre balance? The damage was better than firetraps but it was less spammable since you can't place it under monsters

only problem is I can't remember if it got nerfed or not.

Based on the post balance patch formula, it looks like with 120 dex, at 150/50 Feint Bomb would do 1500% ATK, though I'm not really good at calculations and that kind of thing, so I'm really not sure what that would translate to as far as actual dmg is concerned. Based on that though, I can't really see it as being a particularly viable leveling skill since job level and base level seem to play a fairly large role in the damage formula.

[GuardianTK]

They still have really crappy Matk daggers for Shadow Spell as well. Anyone seen the new Bio4 equips that are supposed to come out? The Azure Nail and Scarlet Nail are the best Shadow Spell daggers to date, but.........they are not slotted, despite being Lv4 weapons and having only 80matk! An Elemental Sword[3] or a Bazerald would still top them in Matk for Shadow Spell's damage.
http://forums.warppo...-lab-4f-update/
Don't get me started on the recently introduced Ancient Dagger, which would end up Cursing the user whenever they do Physical and Magical attacks!

Shadow Spell only allows you to use up to Lv5 of a non-trans skill for autocasting purposes. The only two viable non-trans AoE spells are Stormgust and Meteor Storm. Stormgust doesn't stack on itself, nor does it damage monsters that get Frozen during the attack. You can argue that the Chaser merely has to Sightless Mind to break the ice, but that's assuming they are all still clustered together after Stormgust has knocked them around before the mob is Frozen. Meteor Storm stacks, but you can't exactly count on its DPS(Due to Lv5 being the max active you can have on and fairly low Matk on every dagger.) to stack well on high Mdef monsters or when you need it for immediate mob control.

Shadow Spell starts to get extremely lackluster in the higher levels for soloing, therefore you are forced to use Arrow Storm anyways. The best bow Chasers can equip is the Orc Archer Bow, which is weaker than the Elven Bow combo. It is basically required to wear a Rideword Hat when using Arrow Storm in order to efficiently maintain SP without spending your earnings on SP restoratives every 2-3 Arrow Storms. I wish good luck to those who can't get into a party with a Sorc in the case they don't have a Rideword Hat. Don't forget that you cannot solo with Arrow Storm, because god knows what you'll do when you realize you can't tank mobs that can't be 1-shot in the higher level maps.
Even the new bow introduced for Chasers through Bio4 is crap compared to Orc Archer Bow.

Edited by GuardianTK, 22 March 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[olbaid]

None of the ranger traps are good since the post-balance formulas require Trap Research. So far, I think there are only 3 options.
1) AS ranger wannabe
2) IB/BB with a red twin
3) Meteor Shadow spell with duple light

Tbh, I think SC were too good pre-balance. My SC used fire trap better than my ranger since chasers had a much better HP pool and backslide.

[CeruleanGamer]

I miss 9k trap damage on my chaser. Thank god I got the 150/50 out of the way. I feel bad for the post balance Chasers..... you'll just have to abuse medals to level I guess? lol

There's always a backslide tanker chaser if you're into that. lol

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 22 March 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Anchors]

Falcifer, on 22 March 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

WW set and all those +dex self buffs (improve conc, falcon eye, etc) aren't the only things making rangers AS far more powerful. You forgot to factor in elven bow set bonus, which from what I know increases the dmg much further. I'd say 1/3 or so is more accurate than 50%, or even less if you're dealing with all those +11 elven bows

<edit>Mixed up some info! My bad D:

The only thing the OAB/steel combo has going for it is that you can carry around misc items to craft steel arrows. But that doesn't mean much to a chaser since of course they don't have arrow crafting. @_@

Edited by Anchors, 23 March 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[DarkDan]

What is wrong with the IB/BB build? If you can use those two skills with a 3x sword guardian red twin edge, you should be good to go. I just leveled my RK to 150/50 with that combo.

[GuardianTK]

Anchors, on 22 March 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Someone's gonna point out that both sets give +50% and the total atk values of bow + arrow are the same, but elven is a level 4 weapon, orc archer is level 3. Steel arrows are 0.2 weight each, elvens are 0.1.

The only thing the OAB/steel combo has going for it is that you can carry around misc items to craft steel arrows. But that doesn't mean much to a chaser since of course they don't have arrow crafting. @_@

Elven Bow has a slot for Archer Skel card(Overall increase of ranged attack damage). Your other information is also incorrect, because the Elven Bow is also a Lv3 weapon. Elven Bow has 160 weapon attack. Orc Archer Bow has 120 weapon attack.

DarkDan, on 22 March 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

What is wrong with the IB/BB build? If you can use those two skills with a 3x sword guardian red twin edge, you should be good to go. I just leveled my RK to 150/50 with that combo.

Double SP cost for Reproduced skills post-balance. This means Ignition Break would cost 110sp per cast. It's an option for soloing on a Chaser, but that in no means it's useful in a party when monsters tend to be spread out. Ignition Break requires that the monsters be almost next to you in order for the damage to be optimized. It's also nowhere near as powerful as AS when partying.


Keep in mind that a Rideword Hat+Nid Garb combo works best when you can hit a decent mob with a decent AoE. This is not always true in a party when everyone else can probably kill faster than you and when the monsters are spread out compared to when you are soloing. This will present SP problems.

[kasshin]

I beileve it's balanced right now, just like how it is with suras. SCs and Suras are now PVP/WoE oriented characters, so it's fair for them to be worse at PVM.

A lot of characters are not terribly useful in turn ins. The most useful would probably be ABs for heals and Rangers for killing. Then you just need 2-3 tank classes (RK, RG, Sura) and you're set. Sorc would be recommended for higher level turn ins for SP. This kind of makes everyone else extra for the most part.

If I was recruiting I would put up a generic R> chat and just take anyone until we are at 5-6. Then I would see what crucial classes (AB / Ranger / Sorc) we are missing and try to look for those.

Also, it depends a lot on the player and how they play the class. As mentioned above, a tanking mobbing chaser is quite nice due to them having back slide and can carry a shield, whereas most GXes in parties will not. Arrow Storm is a decent AOE even when copied and is on par with a lot of other AOEs other classes do. Also note that SCs are generally less squishy than the rangers and are easier to keep alive in parties.

SCs were overpowered before balance, since they can solo very effectively with fire trap in PVM and were excellent at PVP/WoE. Not many classes can solo effectively (and at a cheap cost) after balance, and I believe they intended it this way to encourage more partying.

I'm mostly playing an RG right now and they are not really the most popular class in turn ins. I built mine to be pretty PVM oriented, so I am one of the 25% RG population that has the sacrifice skill. I mob pretty aggressively when I can to help out; RKs can mob better with spear dynamo but I see most of them hanging back and using DB or IB a lot. OB annoys people a lot so I mostly direct the monsters back into the party and usually wait until the ranger has already casted Arrow Storm. A lot of people don't really see the numbers correctly but OB does do 25k damage AOE on average from the two hits, and isn't just an annoying weak skill. Well that's going off topic, but I'm just trying to say that generally unwelcome classes can still make themselves quite useful and liked in turn in parties, and just depends on the player.

Edited by kasshin, 22 March 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[Ramen]

I would really like to get some GM attention to this thread. At least we could find out whether suggestions would be feasible or not as far as development goes and all that jazz.

[AhinaReyoh]

Ramen, on 22 March 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

I would really like to get some GM attention to this thread. At least we could find out whether suggestions would be feasible or not as far as development goes and all that jazz.

I wouldn't expect much, considering all us Performers got from Heim was basically: "The situation is not ideal, but we'll wait and see if kRO makes 3-2 Mora sets."

[kasshin]

AhinaReyoh, on 22 March 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

I wouldn't expect much, considering all us Performers got from Heim was basically: "The situation is not ideal, but we'll wait and see if kRO makes 3-2 Mora sets."

Agreed completely, performers are the ones that need buffs. SCs are totally fine.

[Codface]

Just get around 60 perfect dodge gear and go mobbing.

For solo easy mode dracula card, IB and two megs should work out well. I really dont see a problem.

[Agahim]

Codface, on 23 March 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Just get around 60 perfect dodge gear and go mobbing.

For solo easy mode dracula card, IB and two megs should work out well. I really dont see a problem.

i'd worry if you'd see a problem having gods and mvp cards equipped.

[Jaye]

I don't think Shadow Chaser needs any sort of general buff. Because they are currently awesome in pvp/woe.

The best way to address their PVM failures is with equipment I think.

Something like, say:

Mirror of Jealousy
A strange mirror possessing the spirit of a jealous artist who wanted to be better than the masters he copied.
Max SP + 80, Dex+2, Int+2, Atk+5%, Matk+5%.
When paired with Shadow Chaser's Mark, Increases the damage of any skill copied with [Reproduce] or [Intimidate] by 50%
Type: Accessory
Defense: 1
Weight: 10
Required Level: 125
Applicable Job: Shadow Chaser

Shadow Chaser's Mark
A special tattoo created with specialized paint on the body of a member of the shadow chaser's guild. It enables otherworldly energy to channel through the shadow chaser.
ATK +20, MATK+30. Reduces the SP cost of reproduced skills by 20%.
If paired with Byorgue Card, ATK +5%, Matk +5%.
Type: Accessory
Defense: 0
Weight: 10
Required Level: 125
Applicable Job: Shadow Chaser

Shadowstitch Weave [1]
Billowing cloak worn by Shadow Chasers to help conceal their movements and make their surprise attacks more deadly.
ATK +5, MATK +5.
If refined +7 or higher, additional ATK +5, MATK +5.
If refined +9 or higher, additional ATK +10, MATK +10.
If refined +7 or higher, ranged attack +5% when equipped with a bow.
If refined +9 or higher, additional ranged attack +5% when equipped with a bow.
If refined +9 or higher, if worn with Shadow Chaser's Mark, increase damage of copied skills by an additional % equal to the refine rate of the garment times two.
Type: Garment
Defense: 25
Weight: 60
Required Level: 130
Applicable Job: Shadow Chaser

Wearing all 3 item, with the cloak at +12, you're looking +74% arrow storm damage and +10% ranged attack, +25% ATK with byorgue card, +40 ATK, etc., all this together makes you like 3/4 as good as a ranger at arrow storm-- but you're wearing some pretty pvm specific stuff, making it useless in woe/pvp as a ranger wearing white wing.

Edited by Jaye, 23 March 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[Randomititiy]

So do I joke now and point out those of us who went Dagger Chaser instead of bow

But really my only problem so far as mentioned is leveling since I got back, I don't really pvp nor do I WoE so leveling is a slow harsh thing to do.

[Anchors]

GuardianTK, on 22 March 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Elven Bow has a slot for Archer Skel card(Overall increase of ranged attack damage). Your other information is also incorrect, because the Elven Bow is also a Lv3 weapon. Elven Bow has 160 weapon attack. Orc Archer Bow has 120 weapon attack.

Oh my bad! Was thinking of Hunter bow + Hunting arrows and OAB x_X Not sure how I mixed up Elven and Hunter. I'll edit that out~

[Jaye]

Randomititiy, on 23 March 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

So do I joke now and point out those of us who went Dagger Chaser instead of bow

But really my only problem so far as mentioned is leveling since I got back, I don't really pvp nor do I WoE so leveling is a slow harsh thing to do.

Don't see this as a problem since +74% on copied skill means auto shadow spell or duple light = hurt much more, also I provisioned +MATK just for this

Edited by Jaye, 23 March 2012 - 07:34 AM.

[Randomititiy]

Jaye, on 23 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

Don't see this as a problem since +74% on copied skill means auto shadow spell or duple light = hurt much more, also I provisioned +MATK just for this

Now we just need the item made as well as the long trek to 130 ;D

Guess I should of restarted playing earlier oh well

[Jaye]

Sometimes I wish my ideas actually made it into the game more often xD I think people would really like the items I designed and not complain about them

[Randomititiy]

I am glad most of my ideas aren't put in game

Now I kind of want to draw a design for all 3 of them..

[simca437]

a biiiig NO!!
sc's r way much irritating in woe!