10 replies to this topic

[Ramen]

So, as has been brought out by many, it's kind of sad at how little has been done to improve the forging system and actually make it worthwhile. I have taken a particular interest in it because I think there are a lot of really cool things that can be done thanks to new systems that came prior to and with renewal, including socket enchant and hidden enchants. That being said here are my current proposals to add to the Mechanic class so that they have a forging option, just like Blacksmith has a forging option. Please let me know what you think and what could be tweaked to be better.

Forge Armor
This skill allows Mechanics to forge armors with varying effects and elements.
[Level 1] Unlocks one upgrade slot for forging an armor
[Level 2] Unlocks two upgrade slots for forging an armor
[Level 3] Unlocks three upgrade slots for forging an armor
[Level 4] Unlocks four upgrade slots for forging an armor
Success Rates
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Armor Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
Base Rate | -10% | -20% | -30% | -40% |
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Forge Armor Skill Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
Succes Rate Bonus | +5% | +10% | +15% | +20% |
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Anvil Bonus is the same as with weapons
Forging Armor success rates are based on DEX, LUK, Base and Job level.
Using the forging slots decreases the success rate of the forge attempt. Percents TBD.
At level 1, a Mechanic can forge a Property Level 1 Elemental Armor, or add a special item to increase either the DEF or MDEF of the armor, or at a slightly lower success rate enchant the armor with a spell scroll. The number of slots increases with the skill level which allows for Property Level 2, 3 and 4 armors to be forged. A combination can also be forged. For example with Forge Armor level 4 one can choose to make a property level 1 armor with a spell scroll, and two ores to increase the overall defense of the armor. Or one could make a non elemental armor with four spell scroll enhancements.
Spell Scroll Enhancements to Armors
When forging an armor with spell scrolls, the forged armor gains a chance to automatically cast the skills of the spell scroll when the player wearing the armor takes damage. The level cast depends on the level of spell scroll used when forging, and the success chance depends on the number of same spell scrolls used. 1 Spell Scroll has a 3% chance, 2 Spell Scrolls of the same type and level have a 6% chance, 3 have a 9% chance, and 4 have a 12% chance to autocast while receiving damage. Healing Spell Scrolls forged into an armor will have half the chance to be autocast on the player while receiving damage.
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Smith Level 4 [Insert Weapon Type]
This skill allows the Mechanic to forge Level 4 Weapons. There are three levels and the skill works simiarly to it's Blacksmith counterpart with a few exceptions. Level 4 weapons require different items to forge such as Bradium and other items TBD. Level 4 weapons can also be forged with varying types of effects. Star Crumb increases the attack of the weapon. Another item would be used to increase the MATK of the weapon. Spell Scrolls can also be forged into a level 4 weapon, similarly to Armor, except that there are only three forging slots for weapons. Level 4 Weapons can also be forged with slots.
Smithing a level 4 weapon would have a base success rate of -40% and the skill of each weapon type is mastered at level 3 which gives a +30% overall success rate. The success rate is influenced by DEX, LUK, STR, and Job level. STR plays a much smaller role in the success rate when compared to DEX and LUK. Smithing level 4 weapons would require a Bradium Hammer Item. Anvils carry the same weight as with forging other weapons.
Mechanics are able to forge Axes, Two-Handed Axes, Daggers, Knuckles, Maces, Spears, Two-Handed Spears, Swords, Two-Handed Swords, Bows, Whips, Instruments, Books, Guns, and Huuma Shuriken.
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Bradium Research
This skill effects the success rate of smithing level 4 weapons.
Lvl 1 | 1%
Lvl 2 | 2%
Lvl 3 | 3%
Lvl 4 | 4%
Lvl 5 | 5%
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Advanced Weaponry Research
Further enhances a Mechanic's chance of successfully forging any weapon. Also increases a Mechanic's success with the Upgrade Weapon skill. The skill is mastered at level 10.
Gain 1% per level learned toward forging success rates. The increase to Upgrade Weapon will be such that a max level of Advanced Weaponry Research will result in an overall 15% higher success rate of upgrading over an NPC.
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Armor Research
Enhances a Mechanic's chances of successfully forging armors. Success rate at level 1 is 1% and increases by 1% for each level learned and is mastered at level 10.
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Upgrade Equipment
This skills allows the Mechanic to upgrade Armor, Garments, Shields, and Headgears. Upgrade Equipment is mastered at skill level 10 and each skill level corresponds with the max level of upgrade possible. At level 10 the Mechanic has a base 5% higher success rates at forging than NPC forgers. Success rate is also effected by job level for a maximum of a 10% higher success rate than NPC forgers.

[Kadelia]

I don't like the idea of the "fix" relying on so many new skills as this makes it impossible to get through kRO essentially. I like more pragmatic proposals.

The elemental armors seem very very very very abusable. High level elements not only protect against their own element and absorb it!) but also reduce other elements significantly. Its WAY too good-- especially @ MVP.

Forging level 4 stuff is bad... level 4 stuff is supposed to be unique/rare not mass-produced.

Increasing the success rate over the NPC on armors also bad Gravity will never go for it.

I'd rather see small, feasible tweaks to the old skills that are more likely to actually happen.

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ATM you can drop star crumbs into the forge window as well as the element stones. 4 slots available.

Instead of just star crumbs, you should be able to drop other items into the mix. And the final result will have hidden-enchant style bonuses in the 4 slots of the item (like mora enchants).

Examples:

Dark Crystal Fragment = MATK +35
Crystal of Darkness = MATK +50
Bradium = ATK +15, ATK +5%
Star Crumb = ATK +20
Bloody Edge = ATK +5, CRIT +6
Broken Crown = MATK +5%
Broken Pharaoh Emblem = INT +2
Chivalry Emblem = AGI +2
Four Leaf Clover = LUK +2
Dark Piece = STR +2
Darkred Scale Piece = VIT +2
Hand of God = ATK +3%, MATK +3%
Fang of Hatii = Water Element, ATK+10
Fire Dragon Scale = Fire element, ATK +10
Horn of Tendrilion = Wind Element, ATK +10
Hard Skin = Earth Element, ATK +10
Heroic Emblem = Atk +3%, Hit +5
Gemstone = Earth Element, MATK +30
Ice Scale = Water Element, MATK +30
Illusion Flower = Perfect Dodge +4
Loki's Whispers = ATK +15, MATK +25

[Balthi]

Spoiler

Instead of just star crumbs, you should be able to drop other items into the mix. And the final result will have hidden-enchant style bonuses in the 4 slots of the item (like mora enchants).

Examples:

Dark Crystal Fragment = MATK +35
Crystal of Darkness = MATK +50
Bradium = ATK +15, ATK +5%
Star Crumb = ATK +20
Bloody Edge = ATK +5, CRIT +6
Broken Crown = MATK +5%
Broken Pharaoh Emblem = INT +2
Chivalry Emblem = AGI +2
Four Leaf Clover = LUK +2
Dark Piece = STR +2
Darkred Scale Piece = VIT +2
Hand of God = ATK +3%, MATK +3%
Fang of Hatii = Water Element, ATK+10
Fire Dragon Scale = Fire element, ATK +10
Horn of Tendrilion = Wind Element, ATK +10
Hard Skin = Earth Element, ATK +10
Heroic Emblem = Atk +3%, Hit +5
Gemstone = Earth Element, MATK +30
Ice Scale = Water Element, MATK +30
Illusion Flower = Perfect Dodge +4
Loki's Whispers = ATK +15, MATK +25

Adding these would increase failure rate/decrease success rate supposedly, correct?

[kasshin]

Jaye's suggestions seem a lot more feasible to me. As he mentioned, adding completely new skills is probably impossible at our current state, and modifying existing skills is much more realistic.

[Helios0]

i like the idea of adding different kinds of stuff to the slots on the create weapon UI that pops up when you use a smithing hammer

Edited by Helios0, 24 May 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Tetsamaru]

Well the problem with adding new skills is that we get back to the Blacksmith and Alchemist problem of leeching being the only way to level. Which I'm sure people DONT want to do for 3rd classes due to the exp being practically how leveling was in old Ragnarok.

A pure Forger Blacksmith and a Pure potter Alchemist sacrified all their attack skills just to get their forging/potting skills. But at least Alchemist got a tiny bit of leeway to get a couple of attack skills.

A pure forger blacksmith has no luxery. You have 49 skill points, if you master all forging skills, you DONT HAVE ENOUGH skill points to actually master all the forging skills. You need to sacrifice something.

You end up with a character with all dex, luck and no attack skills at all. This is why back in pre-renewal, pure forging blacksmith had to pay for Leeches. It was the only way to level.

But alchemist? Alchemist need to put in a "whopping" 20 skill points to learn how to make potions. and whats after that? they don't need to put in an extra 3 skill points just to learn how to make potions or how to make acid bombs. They just need to buy a couple of books to pot everything.

Leveling a pure forging mechanic to job 150/50 would be hell. Well, it kinda already is hell.

What needs to be done is allow Mechanics the same kind of mechanic(pun not intended) to at least be on even ground with Alchemist. This means have an NPC in the blacksmith guild actually sell books on how to refine weapons and armor. And the Mechanic just needs to have the book in his inventory and the appropiate hammers and Anvil to forge.

Ofcourse, we also need to fix the job 70 vs job 50 thing too. Make it so 3rd class Genetics and Mechanics get the same forge job bonus at job 50 that job 70 has. Cause it stands now, alot of pure forgers just stay at Biochemist and Mastersmith because its simply "Not needed" to get to 3rd class.

If anything, it was shown with Alchemist that is possible to add in new skills(that use up skill points) to an already exisiting tree. Alchemist need to do the Bioethics quest to open up the Homunculus skill tree. Which takes up 7 skill points should an Alchemist choose to get it.

A new quest skill could be opened up for Mechanics to allow pure forgers to go beyond the old forging skills. And say, this skill tree takes up like 10 skill points to master. That way you still got 39 other skills to get attack skills.

Edited by Tetsamaru, 23 May 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[Kadelia]

Being 3rd job should just give you a flat +% bonus to forging/potting that makes up for the 20 jobs.

[Klik06]

Let us have the option to forge Armor anyway. RO does everything else!

[kentoriyama]

At the very least upgrade to +20 as mechanic. (btw +20 jobs = 4% success)

[Klik06]

I'm posting this because forgers should be able to do more than just forge weapons.

1.) Armor is a forge
2.) We should be able to forge Armor. That's are class it says so in the name BlackSmith or Master BlackSmith
3.) Why Did The Alchemist Class get new stuff to make after going Geneticist? And Blacksmiths Didn't?
4.) What is the point of making a Master Blacksmith when you can only go 99/70. When A gent can push their stats and Improve their pot making skills by increasing their dex & luk to 120.
5.) This game is made to change! You've done just about everything else. Why not let forgers forge Armor?
6.) And we know RO will make new classes. For them not to make something else for forgers to make would be an insult to all forgers.
7.) But we all know the Alchemist Class will get new pots to make.
8.) Should I ask if a Forger can have a humunculi. (Okay being kinda sarcastic. But, trying to make a point!)
9.) I can't compare a blacksmith to any other class than alchemist. Because they are both creators. And it just doesn't seem fair.
10.) Are we now only to leave a Master Blacksmith as it is. And make a Battle Smith.
11.) Why can't forgers get the chance to expand.
12.) To Make more than just weapons.
13.) I didn't say God Armor
14.) To improve beyond Luk & Dex 99
15.) And have to use AB's to buff them.
16.) To Improve the success rate
17.) Have the choice to have more SP
18.) Make more money with Armor
19.) I never said I was "Above The Zeny"
20.) Come on RO make the change
21.) You listen to people listen now.
22.) Do something that kicks WOW off the planet!!!

And to everyone other forger!!!! Do not say it will never happen. Support Me! Tell RO you want more!!!! It's not why or why not! Give RO a chance to test it on Sakray. And see what happens. To think if forgers can forge armor. What all forgers can do. Ranked or Not(It's only ten spots). Unless RO increases the rank panel to 20. Which is something that they should do also. Thank You!!!!

[sniperkenny]

I strongly believe that confining forging and pot-making to one class is wrong to begin with. every character can have a specialty to create ores, make weapons, pots, scrolls, etc.