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[Classic] Sage Build.. Help please!


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#1 Pittsy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

Hi all,

I'm familiar with the basics of the Sage class, and am now looking into making my second character (as my main has finally reached a respective level and it now takes a while to level, I need a break!).

Now I know this may sound silly, but I'm thinking about becoming a Battle-Sage.. You know, hindsight and what not.. Although I have never tried or seen this build been done well. A few questions:

1. Is it worth my time? Do they even compare in comparison to levelling an INT/DEX build bolter?
2. Is the equipment needed to play the build well expensive? (I am le poor)
3. Where is the highest tier levelling map for a battle-sage? Better than a bolter?

If anyone has any experience or any little pieces of advice, I would greatly appreciate you sharing!

Thanks a bunch, see you in game!

Pittsy
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#2 Bluesummers

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:31 AM

Hello, I know a little about Hindsight Sages, so I can offer a little input at least.

1. In a fully functional pre-renewal, they're actually quicker levelers. This is because if you have access to a Linker, and marry them, you now have access to level 10 bolts, and other snazzy Soul Linker buffs. But right now, there are no Linkers.

2. Also with the market how it is, you may find it difficult to quickly acquire all the flee gear you'd need depending on where you'd level at. Undershirt and Pantie, are cheap/easy to acquire, Kukre cards aren't terribly overpriced(though with this market, that may have changed already), if you wanted to free up the armour slot while gaining a little more flee, Whisper cards are currently fairly expensive. The best headgear options are taken up by the kafra shop.(sadly, in my opinion) Evolved Mini Propeler, and Flapping Angel Wings. So, depending on having a bit of real cash, and about half a mill or so.(Market is unpredictable, so this may have changed even as I type) You could give yourself a fair bit of the flee boosting you'd need.

3. Its a case of 1. all over again with this question really. In so much as, back when I found out and built a successful one, Rachel and its maps were available, meaning Ice Titans. Since we have none, on Classic right now, I'd take a stab at the best you'd be able to do would be Turtle Island maybe.(probably with support)

My personal decision has been to just go down the route of bolter Sage, and learn how to do one of those. Since I would really like a Sage again, and aren't willing to wait around for Linkers and Ice Dungeon. I guess that means, I'm also not entirely convince by the ablities of Hindsight minus a Link. This is due to the fact, without Link your choice of skill, will vary in level. Eg. Levels 1,2 or 3 of Fire Bolt.

I think Hindsight minus the Link, would probably be more of slower leveler atm. I've tried one without link and buff ups before, and they still level ok, but they're not gonna blow you away in terms of leveling speed. (although theres probably someone out there, proving me wrong, knowing how this game works, lol.)

You also have to remember, that you'll have to level up to Sage in the first place, you could get a little dex to make that easier, but that means you'll reach decent flee or decent int a little slower than you would otherwise. I guess it depends what on your looking for really. If you wanting speed right now, your probably better off bolter, if your not so fussed, and don't mind a little extra effort, you could find Hindsight fun and rewarding. Also if you get there, and find it isn't for you, or you don't have the resources to make it work out atm, you can always leave it for later, when they release Ice Dungeon and Soul Linkers.

Hope that helps you.

Edited by Bluesummers, 15 August 2012 - 04:39 AM.

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#3 Pittsy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:56 AM

Wow thanks for your input Blue, I really appreciate it!

As far as the build goes now, he IS still a 1/1 Novice.. I don't know, I may leave it until the release of certain areas and maps as I am very keen to 99 my first iRO character, but secondly to be able to level efficiently with the Hindsight build (I have no trouble utting in the extra effort for a bit of fun!).

As far as skills go, would you be inclined to max Fire Bolt 10, Cold Bolt 10, Lightening Bolt 10, then grab Fire Wall for levelling purposes? Because from what I understand hindsoght builds require little DEX, so geting SW would be pointless, as by the time I would have cast it, it would be gone /heh (Is Soul Strike something to think about? I can't see SS being more effective than FIre Bolt on the majority of targets).

If you wouldn't mind giving me your ideas on a skill build that would be fantastic, as I said, I am mainly looking at building a 10 FB, 10 CB, 10 LB, 5 FireBall, 10 FireWall, 1 Sight, 3 Stone Curse.. But not too sure.

Thanks again for your input, much appreciated!
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#4 Bluesummers

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:03 PM

Not a problem. Ok, on the matter of a skill build, you might be surprised to read, that I think I actually did Safety Wall with him. I think what I did was, either level on Geos(which don't move of course), or tanked myself Mi Gaos(Just a quick note, in case you didn't know, Mi Gaos have less Mdef than Geos, so you can kill effectively sooner) with my High Priest.(It can be done with a Priest too for that matter)

The reason being, given that I knew the effectiveness of what I was going to be working with, I thought it was worth the extra effort to fore go Firewall, as it'd be of 0 use to me as a Hindsight Sage. Due to the fact you have to walk up to things and hit them anyway. And also, even a slow but good level Safety Wall(I always would say 7 or higher, or just don't bother, its pathetic at low levels), can save your life in critical situations. EG. your Kahii runs out, and your trying to get back. Or you've become a little overmobbed and its starting to hurt your SP.

That ones personal preference. I thought it was worth a little early pain to have a bit of pay off later.

My recommendation would be to max all 3 bolts. As from what I'm aware, Soul Link would only boost your bolts up to the highest level you've learned. Especially Lightning Bolt, as thats your sole weapon in Ice Dungeon. You also have to remember, that Imp and Siroma cards will eventually come out, and although you won't get the cast time boosts(Hindsight gives you instant cast bolts), the damage is wonderful. Really Imps aren't realistic on a budget, and won't be when they come into play. Siromas however are easy to acquire, as you could hunt them yourself while gaining exp at lower levels.

I don't have any real experience with Soul Strike, but I suspect your right in saying fire would generally do the job in most instances.

Here's a rough idea of what I would do with a build that includes Safety Wall: http://irowiki.org/~...IueAcodEGAae5Jy

You'll note that leaves you with 18(17 if you max Dragonology for the 1 extra int) points to play with(btw, don't get less than Hindsight 10, you'll regret it, as this lowers your percentage of it triggering) That's so many points to spare, you could in fact get both Safety Wall and Fire Wall. Not that I suggest you do, as you can spend them on exciting things, like Endows and Whirlwind, Volcano and Deluge. In fact, if you so wished, you could do a build that gave you Magnetic Earth 3.

I personally didn't bother with Heaven's Drive, Frost Diver, and maybe only got level 1 of Stone Curse, just for possible access to Earth Endow. For me with Hindsight being set up how it is/was, my mind thought, really its about spamming those Bolts, more than it is setting stuff up to be this element, or that element. If you really wanted you could make use of the Sage's Elemental Change skill, if you were worried about that.(Which from my readings is effected by int, dex, and the level of your endows, in terms of adding to its success rate) http://irowiki.org/w...lemental_Change

I should also point out, as to why you get Spell Breaker and Magic Rod.(not only are they kinda cool, but they save lives) Somethings you'll face cast spells, and Spell Breaker can shut them down(even with like 10-20 dex, it isn't the worlds worst cast time). Magic Rod absorbs single target spells. Eg. Ice Titans like to use Frost Diver when in battle, this would go through your Kahii, as that's not physical damage. However if you Magic Rod, it is simply nullified.(Magic Rod is instant, and has no cast bar that I remember) Be careful not to over spam it or it lags you about a bit. You can get higher levels of these if you so wish, that's your choice. I just put the bare minimum you'd want.

As for stats, you could go 99 int, 99 agi. Personally I chose not to do this, and probably went there about 90, or only slightly over, with int and agi, and instead put points into vit, beyond what little I'd put in dex. This is because, as a Hindsighter, things like stun are the enemy. You stun, there's no flee, no flee, Kahii's workload increases exponentially. This is bad due to Kahii eating SP when your physically attacked, so you'll soon run out of SP and HP. My advice is to get vit later in the build during 9x levels, rather than earlier, this was my preference. When your a Scholar, you can enjoy the fun of what I call Kahii tanking. Scholars can of course use Indulge to gain SP, at the cost of HP, and so you can create an infinite loop of SP and HP regeneration, so long as the damage doesn't get too heavy. Things like this are why Scholar became my favourite class of all. To give you an idea, I once tanked like 7 Mi Gaos for fun using this method in testing.(though my Scholar was decently geared)

Soooo, that's that, as it were. Forgive me for waffling on a little, but I'm awfully fond of Sages and Scholars. I think there one of the most fun, and rewarding classes to play.

Edited by Bluesummers, 16 August 2012 - 12:47 PM.

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#5 Pittsy

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:43 AM

Wow, thanks so much for all your help! I now have a mage up and coming at level 45 so he should be at Sage soon, and I'll probably just keep levelling him to around 75 so when Ice Dungeon comes out I can then farm my 80's out nice and easy!

I'll be working on my knight (IGN: Pittsy) a fair bit to get him to 90 (He's 85 atm) but will be on my Sage quite a bit so feel free to PM me ingame to have a chat (IGN: Prof. Pittsy) I'm incredibly grateful!

Once again, cheers Blue
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#6 Bluesummers

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

Not a problem, I try to be informative where I can. Hindsight and how it can be built, is something I took quite a bit of time in learning. So it happens, you just picked a strong subject, haha.

That reads like a good plan to me, you should be able to get to 70 without too much trouble. I'm considering doing that myself, once I get my bolter Sage sorted.(if I ever figure out a skill build for it)

I've not been getting on as much lately, due to a bit of ill health. I'll try dropping you a line sometime soon if I have chance.
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#7 Blackfield

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:44 AM

Hi all,

i have played RO before a long long time ago, so the information posted here is great.

i have been playing around with the base build blue posted and came with the following build
http://irowiki.org/~...eAcodFHcgDkD3Jy

the id behind it is lvling as hindsight/battle sage but still be able to support if i find a group to tag along aka "battle support sage"

any comments are appreciated.

still i have some questions about it?

1. should it take the level(s) in FD, FBall just for hindsight? or just use them for something else?
2. is it ok to spread my point over the 3 endows and follow up skills or is it better to focus on 1 or 2?

can anyone point me i the right direction for stat distribution i have no clue atm

thanks

Edited by Blackfield, 20 September 2012 - 11:46 AM.

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#8 EvilLoynis

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

1. should it take the level(s) in FD, FBall just for hindsight? or just use them for something else?
2. is it ok to spread my point over the 3 endows and follow up skills or is it better to focus on 1 or 2?

can anyone point me i the right direction for stat distribution i have no clue atm

thanks



Ok to answer the 2nd question first, their are 4 Endows (Earth, Fire, Wind and Water) not just 3. Also keep in mind that the endows are pretty much the same from lvls 1-4 with the only difference being the success rate lvl 1 is 70% and lvl 4 100% and lasts 20min, lvl 5 always works as well and lasts 30 min.

Just depends if you want that xtra 10min or save in Elemental Stones.

1. There is no Reason to use Frost Diver or Fire Ball with Hindsight.

HOWEVER that being said, using Frost Diver to freeze neutral enemies and then following up with a lvl 10 Lightning Bolt IS a GREAT combo.

Also Sages should pretty much always get all 3 bolts maxed. Fire Wall is also pretty much always useful to both lvl and stay safe. Lol in Renewal both my WarLock and Sorc still use FWall commonly. I know this is Classic but FWall is just always been a good skill to have.

Stats, whether going HS or Bolter build high-max int is always a must. Then for HS you need high lvls of agi for Flee & Atk speed. For Bolters Dex is always good as lvl 10 bolts take 7 sec to cast normally (God I got so spoiled when renewal reduced that by 1/2 right from the starts :( )
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#9 Blackfield

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:57 PM

Ok to answer the 2nd question first, their are 4 Endows (Earth, Fire, Wind and Water) not just 3. Also keep in mind that the endows are pretty much the same from lvls 1-4 with the only difference being the success rate lvl 1 is 70% and lvl 4 100% and lasts 20min, lvl 5 always works as well and lasts 30 min.

Just depends if you want that xtra 10min or save in Elemental Stones.


i know there are 4 but i had 3 in my build and since getting all 4 wasnt an option.

so are the endows worth maxing? it imba for supporting team mates but useless otherwise i presume since the description states "on a weapon of a partymember".

i had only taken them for the follow up skills (volcano, whirlwind, deluge) i know a level 3 in all will just make them last 3 min but i dont see the direct problem of that yet. and to bonus damage to the correspoding element is a nice to have.


1. There is no Reason to use Frost Diver or Fire Ball with Hindsight.

HOWEVER that being said, using Frost Diver to freeze neutral enemies and then following up with a lvl 10 Lightning Bolt IS a GREAT combo.

Also Sages should pretty much always get all 3 bolts maxed. Fire Wall is also pretty much always useful to both lvl and stay safe. Lol in Renewal both my WarLock and Sorc still use FWall commonly. I know this is Classic but FWall is just always been a good skill to have.


is it better to have Fwall instead of Swall?
because i shall be lvling as battle sage the protection it offers close range sounds nice.

taking Fwall does free up some points to put in other skills

Stats, whether going HS or Bolter build high-max int is always a must. Then for HS you need high lvls of agi for Flee & Atk speed. For Bolters Dex is always good as lvl 10 bolts take 7 sec to cast normally (God I got so spoiled when renewal reduced that by 1/2 right from the starts :( )


after reading some threads and such i'm thinking about the following.
for a battle sage (if possible some melee damage).

base stats ( no gear)
str - 30's
agi - 70 / 75
vit - 10 / 20
int - 70's
dex - 60's
luk - 30

am i going in the right direction?


thanks
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#10 EvilLoynis

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:00 AM

Not going to comment on Stats for a Battle Sage as I have never made one and really goes against my play style so my help wouldn't be worth much there.

Now I am not sure of your in game wealth but remember that Safety Wall requires Blue Gems for each use. Also the Ground enchants also take gems to use so you better have the zenny to pay for all of them.

I believe for Battle builds that SWall is > than FWall. I guess this is even more true is your lvling as battle build. FWall is to keep them at a distance and kill them with bolts.

I am not sure but I also think most battle builds also like or require linkers for kahi but may be wrong.

As for the Endows as long as you have the gems to use and this isn't just a slave char getting lower lvls shouldn't matter to much as 20min vs 30min won't be a problem. I used to use Battle Manuals when having my Endow Slave buff my Sin or other chars so that extra 10min mattered.
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#11 Blackfield

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:50 PM

thanks for the reply,

currently i have 0 wealth, havent had the chance to play yet. so still have the oppurtunity to go non-classic server.
is it worth jumping in the deep and go non-classic server?

on the linker stuff i dont intent to get a slave in any form. dont like the id of being depend on that.

i wanted to make a battle sage because i have played it before pre-transcendent and i loved it.
i dont mind the extra effort to level since currently i will use the game to relax after work.

and the id of battle supporter came out of my other mmo experiences where i played i simaliar type.

have been shift skill around and came with the following
http://irowiki.org/~...eBcBdEHEoadB3Jy

is it any good?

maybe i just go for the agi/int hindsight stats builds i keep finding

thanks
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#12 SisterGoat

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:55 PM

I'm a hindsight sage and I'm actually pretty new to it, but this is what I did to get to sage. I am agi/int with a bit of dex. Str really isn't that useful as you are going to do more damage with your autobolts in Classic. Getting 99 agi is probably better than 99 int because you want a lot of flee and aspd.

You don't need firewall or frost diver. As a sage you're going to be running around, hitting things, and kiting with bolts. I personally did not get safety wall either, as I got soul strike instead. I was entirely a hit and run mage. I used level 10 firebolt on floras, hodes and geos, but since I had to sacrifice some int for agi, it was a little tougher. You can also kite things like argos and horongs. Yes, horongs. They move so slow that you will almost never get hit by kiting with a level 2 or 3 cold bolt. You can sacrifice some points of SP recovery to put into some bolts instead since you won't be standing around as much as a wizard.

When you become a sage, you can throw a soul strike on an enemy as you move in to melee. If you have enough flee you can even cast a level 5 or 6 bolt and then smack away and auto bolt at the same time WITHOUT a phen card.

Gears I use are pantie + undershirt, mini propeller kafra hat, yoyo belts, hiding clip, heal clip, and teleport clip. I also might suggest a kettle hat if you want to get deluge. Even though it procs deluge lvl 2, I believe the buff should help you get around the yellow gemstone usage (haven't tested it yet) so you can keep putting it down and use waterball on top of coldbolt. You can also substitute a dagger instead of a book, and there are some good ones like Fortune Sword, Moonlight Dagger, Bazerald, or Dagger of Counter. If Moskovia comes out then there will be better books to choose from.

Other gear to consider would be phen clip if you can afford it, high orc guard since reflect can proc auto cast, and shoes with sohee, verit, or matyr.

Edited by SisterGoat, 22 September 2012 - 09:05 PM.

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#13 sono405

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:20 PM

It's been YEARS since I've looked at battle sages before linkers came out.
This is from what I remember.base stats
http://calcx.wushuan...daaaalaaaaHaaaa
The point is to deal melee around the 100-200s some vit to survive, , decent flee, your lvl 3 auto cast bolts should do around 1k, not to mention with a phen on you have the lvl 10 bolt as well
if sages diary is available then adjust accordingly
and skills
http://irowiki.org/~...dncBakHcgFdF3Jy
firewall is for mob control, decent cast time etc, also in your early years its v wall clocks, you wont be battle until about 85 ish
whirlwind is for the obvious flee, you can recast it anytime for free for 30 minutes after the first initial cast. of course this means you lose a pupa
i prefer books over daggers for obvious reasons, the classic battle sage uses melee and magic so pretend your lets say....an agi crusader? but classier
dont for get the andre cards or if you want, that one card that gives 5% stun chance
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#14 sono405

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:25 PM

lets say in the time a lvl 10 bolt goes off you attack 15-20 times 100-300? about?, maybe a few lvl 1-3 bolts 400-1k a pop then the bolt itself...7k? I could be exaggerating these numbers a bit too much though....
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