74 replies to this topic

[KingsBane]

I think at end of day they just added to the confusion and mess they themselves created by adding tiers of useless stuff into the game. Stats and level tiers we can all understand without a maths degree should be something to work on. This concentration in tiny little things messing up honour gear making valour gear it goes on and on useless attemps to confuse everyone. Simple is best now we got pvp pvm its a total mess. All that work just give us a proper 220 tier we been expecting for two years. Bonus for sets why legend got nothing or any of the other types for that matter? And i dont want to hear that u are working on it!

[Feuer]

They need to fix the drops for "epic" tier items. Too easy to farm. Add incentive to get rid of atleast 50% of them currently in game. Reduce probability of weapon material drops to increase their value. Add all instances to lv 200-230 modes to increase pvm attention. Make "epics" epically hard to get. Pvp should stay the same in terms of time/effort to get. Pretty simply put. Pvm stuff is a mess. Too easy to get with little to null purpose of using.

[MidnightSmurf]

I'm giving up trying to explain what I mean to you now. But you should know that I agree that Exalted items are a bit weak (especially the armour) to be lvl 210 items in Rose.

You're exhausting^^

You're saying that other MMORPG's have same thing like ROSE have exalted items which doesn't make sense at all. So your comparing ROSE to some junk MMORPG. And what's with tiers? You explained only 4 tiers when there is more, do you want to say that exalted isn't tier. Exalted would be worst in tiers list because it would sound like this:

Higher level tier Exalted - much worse than a slightly lower level tier Yellow item.

Exalted stuff is hard to obtain, expensive, and after all that it makes no sense with its extremely high stat requirement and low stats.

No, I'm not saying that.
No, I was writing how some other mmorpgs has it arranged.
No, the tiers were merely examples.

And I repeat myself for maybe the third time now. I also reckon the Exalted items need a fix.

[newpurplee]

I personally think that with the direction this game is heading with the new dungeon system (which is totally in the right direction, by the way) the old equipment system is however preventing us from moving onwards.

The ultra rare weapons are obtained from regular bosses in non-instanced areas which is the old way of rose. These bosses are not particularly hard. It's just the farming of them that is tedious since it takes FOREVER to even get one of the ultra rare weapons. (I've never even gotten one and I've been a player since Triggersoft. The Rift buster is at like 7B zulie!)
I know what you're trying to do, devs, and I am with you completely. I love the fact that the new dungeon boss can drop a weapon that can only be obtained from that dungeon, promoting it. It is something all modern MMORPGS should have. However, the point of this kind of system is that you have to do the dungeon to gain this weapon. The dungeon should be something every player should try if he ever wants to succeed in an even harder dungeon later on. It's like a level in a linear game that you have to complete to get to the next one. That's why in many other MMORPGS these weapons aren't tradable, and I think that should apply here as well.

Here's a list of changes that will push rose into the right direction.:

• Whenever a new dungeon is made, a new better set of equipment should be obtainable from the dungeon boss.
  Clearing a hard dungeon should be rewarding. It makes the dungeons more exciting. A useless weapon will not be desirable by a player unless he wants it solely for looks, and that's why no one went to the pvp instances for Ruven's tokens, because those you could just buy anyway.
• Equipment obtained from the Dungeon boss should be character bound.
  Clearing a dungeon should be done. This is a reminder that Rose Online is a game, and games have challenges that you must clear to truly beat them. Simply buying the weapon only makes it more of a boring grind fest, and that is a killer of western MMORPGS. This is not Korea where grinding is part of the everyday life. If a player has a hard time clearing the first dungeon to get a good set of weapons, then he should either get better at the game by playing more, make his character better by leveling up, or play with a more experienced group,
  giving you a training option (which never basically has been done in rose since it's all about avatar strength, The game actually get easier and easier after you reach the second job.),
  a grinding option (since there are always grinders),
  and a lazy man's option. (replacing the need to purchase the weapon when you're too lazy to get it yourself.)
  What's the point in playing a game if you're going to skip the actual gameplay part?
• Weapons obtained should be required or very helpful in the next dungeon to come.
  We currently have like what 3 dungeons already? That would mean that if the previous two changes would take place, we'd already have 2 useless sets of weapons since the 3rd one completely outmatches the earlier sets, right? Wrong. A dungeon should get more and more difficult in both terms of player skill and avatar strength. Clearing a dungeon should give players opportunities to take on even harder dungeons. A game is all about progression. You shouldn't be able to finish it in a second or simply by doing one thing over and over again until you can buy the best stuff, in MMORPGS that's what leveling is for, but in traditional linear games like Castlevania you progress by beating a level. A completely linear game is always either too hard, too easy or simply feels like you're actually watching a movie, but a game without any kind of linear gameplay is boring and uneventful, and it lacks that satisfying feeling of progression. That's why a game should always balance linear and non-linear gameplay. What this game needs is some more linear gameplay like the story quests but in a new form, in the dungeon system. And so a dungeon should be cleared, and you should get a weapon or armor, and you should need to use that weapon to beat the next dungeon to gain even more avatar strength, making no weapon useless but rather essential unless you think you can manage without it to beat the next level of difficulty. A weapon or armor could for example gain 10% more to PVE damage/defense for the first dungeon and additional 10% on the equipment in the next dungeon. Meanwhile enemies could do 15% more damage on you and have 15% more defense in the next dungeon at the same time making it 5% harder for each dungeon to come. At max level you can defeat any regular enemy already so you wouldn't need to worry about making the PVE too easy outside the dungeon system, in fact, this brings us to the next point.
• Stop raising the level cap.
  As mentioned earlier, the game gets easier and easier from the point you turn level 100 and get your second job. Enemies go in 3 hits instead of 10 and grinding becomes faster. There are so many available skill points that it's pointless to use call it a skill tree system since you have enough to get almost everything. You do not need levels on weapons to make them useful for players to progress. In fact, that is the most useless way of making a player get that particular weapon. The player wont need it at all to progress, he will simply level some more and get an even better one the same day. By using the system of linear dungeon progression you will at some point need for example a particular dungeon weapon or armor. You do not need more levels, you just need better equipment from dungeons.
• Remove the level requirement on dungeon obtained weapons and armors.
  There isn't even any point in having a level requirement on a weapon that can only be obtained by playing a dungeon that can only be played within a certain level range. I don't think more needs to be explained about this. Of course this requires the changes stated above to prevent people from cheating (buying the weapons or being boosted to get them at level 1).

Edited by newpurplee, 24 August 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Feuer]

Newpurplee you have some very good points. I'm going to be sending calanor and staff an email this afternoon with a proposal on changes based from community feedback. Hence my appearant inactivity lately.

[TwiliteGarden]

How hard could it be for the developers to increase the stats on the new weapons/armor? It's probably just a simple change to a database or config file.

The hard part with regards to developing the new weapons (the graphical aspect) is already done. I am frankly surprised they haven't increased the stats already.

Edited by TwiliteGarden, 24 August 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Phish]

It's not difficult to adjust the stats, they just usually aren't very receptive to it when the community asks for it. (look at the 328 patch when stats were swapped left and right and many items became useless, including a few lousy statted epics. Courage armors are another example, no one was a fan of the acc/crit combo because it isn't useful for pvm, but it remains the same.

There is all the question on where you draw the line. Yes the exalted items deserve a boost but how much? Should they be better than epic 200 weapons? (probably not), should they be better than valor 200 weapons? (I don't know) Should they be better than crafted 200 weapons? (most likely).

Because there are so many different types of gear it gets messy ordering them. If the Exalted gear exists, there shoulde some advantage to using it, perhaps being better than all other weapons in one aspect, but worse in another. (ie give them enough offense to make them the 'strongest' pvm weapon, but at the same time give them a negative pvm bonus).



Newpurplee, some of your points are pretty good; character bound items however aren't. Account bound is one thing, but even then the economy and trading with others is part of an mmo. It's not fun to have to npc an item because your character has no use for it, when another person would have loved to pay big money for it.

Edited by Phish, 24 August 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[newpurplee]

All five points are needed together, though. If the items obtained from a dungeon weren't character bound, there would be no need to even do the dungeon, you'd just buy it, and you'd probably buy it before even being able to enter the dungeon, you'd most likely buy the best one and skip all from previous dungeons. Not everything needs to be character bound, just the one set of weapons or armors dropped from the dungeon boss, and you could still have items that sell pretty well. The bosses already drop materials that sell pretty high. And imagine if you could dissemble the exalted equipment for a rare material (not character bound) needed to make a hardened/reinforced/etc version of the equipment. Actually, let's make that another point.

• Dissembling the exalted equipment should give you a rare material for improving the exalted equipment from the same dungeon.
  You could for example have the regular exalted weapon, and lets say 3 materials from the dissembled exalted weapons collected together with the usual stones to make a darkened version of the exalted weapon. This would not only make use of the character bound weapon you do not want, it would give you reason to play the same dungeon several times. Obtaining a weapon you do not need would no longer feel like a pain, you'd just dissemble it and then save or vend the material. Just make sure not to make the improved version all too powerful. We don't want it to surpass the next dungeon's equipments. For example, even just a +20 attack power or 5% attack speed improvement would be enough to get people to want to improve the weapon.

How about now?

[Feuer]

It's not difficult to adjust the stats, they just usually aren't very receptive to it when the community asks for it. (look at the 328 patch when stats were swapped left and right and many items became useless, including a few lousy statted epics. Courage armors are another example, no one was a fan of the acc/crit combo because it isn't useful for pvm, but it remains the same.

There is all the question on where you draw the line. Yes the exalted items deserve a boost but how much? Should they be better than epic 200 weapons? (probably not), should they be better than valor 200 weapons? (I don't know) Should they be better than crafted 200 weapons? (most likely).

Because there are so many different types of gear it gets messy ordering them. If the Exalted gear exists, there shoulde some advantage to using it, perhaps being better than all other weapons in one aspect, but worse in another. (ie give them enough offense to make them the 'strongest' pvm weapon, but at the same time give them a negative pvm bonus).



Newpurplee, some of your points are pretty good; character bound items however aren't. Account bound is one thing, but even then the economy and trading with others is part of an mmo. It's not fun to have to npc an item because your character has no use for it, when another person would have loved to pay big money for it.

Pure stats like 400 dex hawkers find A LOT of use for it actually.

[Priested]

tbh it wasnt a waste
they can just increase the weapon ap i believe quite easily
i mean i think idk...
the designing is pretty good

The design is good idd

but exept the katar, all the other weapons are small.

[Vegas]

"should they be better than valor 200 weapons? (I don't know)"

Yes, they should be better than valor level 200 weapons because Exalted weapons are level 210. I think There shouldn't be Valor weapons past level 200, only exalteds, this way the tiers mess would be fixed.

[roselyfireburn]

dude, the exalted weapons are AWSOME... I need to admit that. I have a SF+15 and a FV+15
you know how much that i have is worth? Yet I love the looks of the exalted weapons. And in my opinion i might actually buy it.
Plus, if they were to change the exalted weapons higher AP I would be PISSED!!
you spend so much on perfecting the lvl200 weapons that you would be mad if something better came out and the thing i had became trash....
I say the designers are very smart and nice for making nice weapons for us.
I really don't know whats your deal but if they make any weapon stronger than an SF or FV i would want to quit :/
If it makes you any happier just go and suggest they make the lvl of epics to maybe 220. But it's very fine at lvl200. It makes more lowbies get the chance to obtain Power!!
I'm not sure if anybody really agree's with you dude... And SoD is for fun, it's not for the sake of being stronger, you play to get nice looking items....
enough said!

[Vegas]

dude, the exalted weapons are AWSOME... I need to admit that. I have a SF+15 and a FV+15
you know how much that i have is worth? Yet I love the looks of the exalted weapons. And in my opinion i might actually buy it.
Plus, if they were to change the exalted weapons higher AP I would be PISSED!!
you spend so much on perfecting the lvl200 weapons that you would be mad if something better came out and the thing i had became trash....
I say the designers are very smart and nice for making nice weapons for us.
I really don't know whats your deal but if they make any weapon stronger than an SF or FV i would want to quit :/
If it makes you any happier just go and suggest they make the lvl of epics to maybe 220. But it's very fine at lvl200. It makes more lowbies get the chance to obtain Power!!
I'm not sure if anybody really agree's with you dude... And SoD is for fun, it's not for the sake of being stronger, you play to get nice looking items....
enough said!

Get lost troll... We are discussing exalted weapons being weaker than normal weapons.

[Sathanas]

A harden 15 caliburn hits harder than the two handed sod sword...ive tested...about 150 200 damage difference, and the dura on mine was higher...so no wearing out after 15 minutes...both 15 refine both D7....they need higher base AP...end of story...

And i freaking HATE the sound they make when they hit things...they all make the same sound katars make...it just sounds...ODD...I utterly wasted about 200m refining and gemming that stupid sword...money i probably wont get back.

Edited by Sathanas, 26 August 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Vegas]

With this SoD weapons update Warpportal is offering us something else instead of ROSE. Looks like they're making whole new game from ROSE. These new SoD weapons doesn't fit old ROSE tiers and level system. Maybe they're gonna remove carts and leave only mounts in game. And then they will decide to change game name?

[Sathanas]

Sod weapons in my opinion should be better than Harden weapons, and SLIGHTLY better than courage wepons but weaker than epics...they would fill a niche nicely there...and possibly giving pvm gears similar stats as the pvp equivalent? Like ap def on Arum gear....dodge on the raider stuff...nobody freaking wants crit PVM....ITS USELESS IN THAT ROLE, QUIT FREAKING STICKING CRIT ON EVERYTHING! If im killing mobs i want def and ap...

[Feuer]

They have their spot, the crying has been done, lets focus on preparing for the skill update soon.

[Sathanas]

They have their spot, the crying has been done, lets focus on preparing for the skill update soon.

Skill update patch v.1045 in about 8 years or so...lol

NOT holding my breath...if it there is an update it will be an utter failure...

[yeoldknight]

With this SoD weapons update Warpportal is offering us something else instead of ROSE. Looks like they're making whole new game from ROSE. These new SoD weapons doesn't fit old ROSE tiers and level system. Maybe they're gonna remove carts and leave only mounts in game. And then they will decide to change game name?

I want it to be named Sathanas Online.

Edited by yeoldknight, 27 August 2012 - 04:21 AM.

[Sathanas]

OI! dont put my name on that bs! xD

[yeoldknight]

That made me LQL.

[Vegas]

Another stupid thing about SoD weapons, most of them have crit stat, but you can't do a crit with SoD weapon. Yes, that's true, they're only weapons in game that doesn't do crits.

[PureCreativity]

Another stupid thing about SoD weapons, most of them have crit stat, but you can't do a crit with SoD weapon. Yes, that's true, they're only weapons in game that doesn't do crits.

We all got your point, now please stop complaingin about the SoD weapons.
If you dont like the SoD Weapons then stop using them and use Hardened/Dark or Epics instead.

[blaze10]

exalted gun doesn't have a problem doing crits...

[Vegas]

Exalted Frost Guardian Sword (2h sword) doesn't deal critical hits.