Everyone's Complaining!

1. I finally had a chance to try out West Orcs today because I've been leveling a new character on a new account. The spawn count is nice and high, but that's really the only high point. I thought the Orcs would be made stronger like the monsters of Overlook but they were not. Even running into a group of 5 archers and 7 High Orcs wasn't a challenge for my wife and I (I may be a veteran but I've been too lazy to transfer good gears to that account so I was just wearing a combination of old gear and eden gear). It also irks me that the large muscle-y blue men with axes, horned helmets and shields are lower leveled and weaker than the medium blue dogs with maces, and swords (I know I'm biased but I spent years sitting at orc village and they are still my favorite demi-human monster in the game). I think I'm the one that originally suggested to bring back West Orcs, but when I did, I didn't think it would be made for characters that were all lower leveled than my own (I guess I should have been more specific).

Suggestion: Make an overlook dungeon out of the Clock Tower. Make it available to characters in the 120s or 130s, pump up the levels and difficulty of all the mobs there to match, give it the same overlook dungeon quests but swap the rewards for better gear (valk items maybe, or odin's blessing sets?). Also consider giving the mobs there new 3rd class skills to match (i.e. swap out the High Orcs smite for Shield Press, give the Archers fear breeze or arrow storm, give the Owls chain lightning, etc.). Then do the same with the Pyramid/Sphinx in Morroc and Geffen/Payon Dungeons.

2. I was playing a lol combo champ at West Orcs and I realized something that I've known for a long time but never really cared about: Fist weapons stink. Why? Because of the silly size modifier on the weapon (100% on small, 75% on medium, and 50% on large). It doesn't make sense that normal unarmed damage with your fist does 100% to each size mob, but if you put some brass knuckles on, you'll somehow do less damage punching a large monster versus a medium or small one.

Suggestion: Remove the size penalties for the fist weapon. Doing so still won't make the weapon outclass maces, because of the lower attack values of fists, but it will help anyone who does want to make a combo monk, even if it's just for lulz like I'm doing.

3. Because of this new, really stupid and really annoying, bug that came with the balance patch where no matter what I do, if I tele or change maps, my equipment window re-maximizes itself, I spent some time trying to reorganize my screen while mindlessly killing the weak orcs. I wasn't happy with anything I did, Renewal really goofed up the interface imo.

Suggestion: Either, split back up the Equipment and Stats window as it was before or make it so we can't accidentally drop items if the equipment window isn't open so I can then just close the stupid thing.

/endrant

In all honesty, I only care about number 3. That window bug really makes me not want to play. But if you want to address the first two items that'd be cool too!

i bet if the complaint was about the cash shop window not working, it will be fixed asap.

LOL, last night in woe I accidentally clicked that cash shop button in the middle of a rush. It works too well already.

If you want no size penalty on fist they might as well remove penalty from two handed swords also.

If you want no size penalty on fist they might as well remove penalty from two handed swords also.

umm...how are those two weapons even slightly related? People actually use 2-handed swords. Besides, you're missing the point. If I punch something and there is no penalty on large or medium monsters, then why is there a penalty on a weapon that is used to punch monsters.

(Large, Medium, Small)
2H Sword: 100% 75% 75%
Fist: 50% 75% 100%

Edited by Akin, 08 January 2012 - 11:47 AM.

1. I finally had a chance to try out West Orcs today because I've been leveling a new character on a new account. The spawn count is nice and high, but that's really the only high point. I thought the Orcs would be made stronger like the monsters of Overlook but they were not. Even running into a group of 5 archers and 7 High Orcs wasn't a challenge for my wife and I (I may be a veteran but I've been too lazy to transfer good gears to that account so I was just wearing a combination of old gear and eden gear). It also irks me that the large muscle-y blue men with axes, horned helmets and shields are lower leveled and weaker than the medium blue dogs with maces, and swords (I know I'm biased but I spent years sitting at orc village and they are still my favorite demi-human monster in the game). I think I'm the one that originally suggested to bring back West Orcs, but when I did, I didn't think it would be made for characters that were all lower leveled than my own (I guess I should have been more specific).

Suggestion: Make an overlook dungeon out of the Clock Tower. Make it available to characters in the 120s or 130s, pump up the levels and difficulty of all the mobs there to match, give it the same overlook dungeon quests but swap the rewards for better gear (valk items maybe, or odin's blessing sets?). Also consider giving the mobs there new 3rd class skills to match (i.e. swap out the High Orcs smite for Shield Press, give the Archers fear breeze or arrow storm, give the Owls chain lightning, etc.). Then do the same with the Pyramid/Sphinx in Morroc and Geffen/Payon Dungeons.

2. I was playing a lol combo champ at West Orcs and I realized something that I've known for a long time but never really cared about: Fist weapons stink. Why? Because of the silly size modifier on the weapon (100% on small, 75% on medium, and 50% on large). It doesn't make sense that normal unarmed damage with your fist does 100% to each size mob, but if you put some brass knuckles on, you'll somehow do less damage punching a large monster versus a medium or small one.

Suggestion: Remove the size penalties for the fist weapon. Doing so still won't make the weapon outclass maces, because of the lower attack values of fists, but it will help anyone who does want to make a combo monk, even if it's just for lulz like I'm doing.

3. Because of this new, really stupid and really annoying, bug that came with the balance patch where no matter what I do, if I tele or change maps, my equipment window re-maximizes itself, I spent some time trying to reorganize my screen while mindlessly killing the weak orcs. I wasn't happy with anything I did, Renewal really goofed up the interface imo.

Suggestion: Either, split back up the Equipment and Stats window as it was before or make it so we can't accidentally drop items if the equipment window isn't open so I can then just close the stupid thing.

/endrant

In all honesty, I only care about number 3. That window bug really makes me not want to play. But if you want to address the first two items that'd be cool too!

Heh, you haven't seen the west orcs in their glory yet... just wait until you walk along smack into a mob of 20 or so archers and a bunch of HOs once. And yeah, mob like those do exist because they didn't lower the spawn after the TI they had there a long long time ago. There needs to be less archers and more HOs. How is a melee supposed to level decently there when for every single HO you find there are 4+ archers on you. That's not how it was EVER in west orcs before.

They should have done more Overlook style dungeons instead of turn ins. Perhaps call it the "Dungeon of Time," where you are allowed to enter and fight super beefed up monsters with high EXP yields. Perhaps you could go for two hours per day, extendable with reset stones.

This would eliminate turn-in pileup, probably eliminate the possibility of soloing, and encourage organized groups. Also make it so you have to physically walk to the location as opposed to having the game hold your hand like you were a wee little baby incapable of leaving your Eden group cage for any reason. Ragnarok has a TON of maps. How about we put them to use?



Edit: Since Overlook dungeons are never boosted by double experience, places like these would never get ridiculously overpowered during increased experience events. They should be constant locations that one can level in steadily with enough effort, instead of sitting around in town waiting for that turn-in that's "just right" or 2x experience to roll around.

Edited by Brindizer, 08 January 2012 - 12:01 PM.

Heh, you haven't seen the west orcs in their glory yet... just wait until you walk along smack into a mob of 20 or so archers and a bunch of HOs once. And yeah, mob like those do exist because they didn't lower the spawn after the TI they had there a long long time ago. There needs to be less archers and more HOs. How is a melee supposed to level decently there when for every single HO you find there are 4+ archers on you. That's not how it was EVER in west orcs before.

Never saw 20 archers at once and we did two complete laps of the map before getting bored and leaving. Then again, I was on a champ so perhaps if we didn't have pneuma it would have been a different outcome.

umm...how are those two weapons even slightly related? People actually use 2-handed swords. Besides, you're missing the point. If I punch something and there is no penalty on large or medium monsters, then why is there a penalty on a weapon that is used to punch monsters.

Which would be more effective? Hitting an elephant with a fist or slashing them with a 2 handed sword?

Now, which is better? Slashing a tiny anopheles with aa 2 handed sword or squahing them Mr.Miyagi sttyle with your fist?

Thus, the size penalties. If you want fists penalty to be removed, remove the 2 handed swords penalty also and everyone will be happy.

With your suggestion you'll make suras alot more OP whenever the Bellum fist comes out.

Edited by HRdevil, 08 January 2012 - 12:13 PM.

Say no to size penaltie remove

sigh...

The physical act of punching bare handed isn't penalized regardless of monster size, so again I ask, why is the damage of a weapon used for punching a monster penalized based on size.

If you can't comprehend that then how about this: the size penalty would be acceptable if there was any similarity between these two lists.

http://db.irowiki.or...type=2&sort=3,2
http://db.irowiki.or...type=9&sort=3,2

If you can't comprehend that then how about this: the size penalty would be acceptable if there was any similarity between these two lists.

Just wait for the bellum fist and then imagine how would it be if it was 100% damage. The whole insta-fist thing all over again.

Just wait for the bellum fist and then imagine how would it be if it was 100% damage. The whole insta-fist thing all over again.

We're arguing apples and oranges here. Instant cast gfist is and always will be dumb. I'm saying that if I'm using a combo battle glove that only has 30 attack, why is it penalized by half on a large monster? It just needlessly penalizes a very infrequently found, niche build.

Besides, outside of lowering/removing gfists cast time, there would still be no reason to use a fist over a mace for fisting, even with my proposed change.

3. Because of this new, really stupid and really annoying, bug that came with the balance patch where no matter what I do, if I tele or change maps, my equipment window re-maximizes itself, I spent some time trying to reorganize my screen while mindlessly killing the weak orcs. I wasn't happy with anything I did, Renewal really goofed up the interface imo.

Suggestion: Either, split back up the Equipment and Stats window as it was before or make it so we can't accidentally drop items if the equipment window isn't open so I can then just close the stupid thing.

/endrant

In all honesty, I only care about number 3. That window bug really makes me not want to play. But if you want to address the first two items that'd be cool too!

I was quite aggravated about this too. The gears take alot of work to collect, I don't want to accidentally be tossing them out on the ground. Equipment window should stay minimized.

I agree. It would also be nice if hitting the escape key didn't start closing windows too. Escape should just bring up the exit/char select menu.

brass knuckles are actually designed for punching other humans in the face so why are they 75% on medium? /dum...

Knuckles aren't even good if you had Weapon Perfection buff on. No one uses them. I'd say either buff them or remove them from the game completely.

Knuckles should like, all have a hidden attribute that gives +2 aspd which I am fairly certain iRO Gravity can do

Edited by Jaye, 11 January 2012 - 02:27 PM.

Knuckles aren't even good if you had Weapon Perfection buff on. No one uses them. I'd say either buff them or remove them from the game completely.

It's not good with Weapon Perfection because those weapons ATK by itself already sucks.

Knuckles should like, all have a hidden attribute that gives +2 aspd which I am fairly certain iRO Gravity can do

If knuckles aspd made up for the lack of attack power, I'd have no complaints.

----------------------------------------------------

Which would be more effective? Hitting an elephant with a fist or slashing them with a 2 handed sword?
Now, which is better? Slashing a tiny anopheles with aa 2 handed sword or squahing them Mr.Miyagi sttyle with your fist?

RO doesn't use common sense in aspects like this. ;P
If it did, we have range on melee weapons, like swords would attack from 2~3 cells away and knuckles 1.

Thus, the size penalties. If you want fists penalty to be removed, remove the 2 handed swords penalty also and everyone will be happy.

Name	                Atk	MAtk	Weight	Wep Lv	Req'd Lv	Element
Hatii Claw [1]	        152	0	55	4	70	        Shadow
Sura's Rampage [1]	142	0	50	3	102	        Neutral

Alca Bringer	        280	0	340	3	100	        Neutral
Death Guidance [2]	200	0	200	4	70	        Neutral

Notice that I also put a req. level comparison here. For example, those that above req. lv100 are obviously meant for 3rd class only.

Bleh, I'd love to use those 2h swords even with size modifiers instead of my lame knuckles.

Hatii Claw is the one with the highest attack, yet it only have a small chance of causing bleeding and a debuff of 2% HP. And it's shadow element.
Death Guidance got loads of cool autocasts and additional stats. And is not the highest attack 2h sword.

Sura's Rampage, I haven't tried this one yet but seems like a waste of zeny em compared maces. Even more with the SP cost increasing.
Alca Bringer has the highest attack, and have that awesome upgrade to ASPD relation.

All that we want is a knuckle as good as a Carga Mace, because we're a class that specializes in using knuckles, leave the maces specialty to battle priests.

With your suggestion you'll make suras alot more OP whenever the Bellum fist comes out.

I'm curious about that Bellum Fist. What does it do?

Then all that would need to be done is reduce the dmg of QQ root skills: GoH and gfist when using knuckles.

-> To be happy when using knuckles we'd need 1 Drake Card for every knuckle we want to use.
I'd love a size penalty like 2h swords or 75% small/100% medium/75% big.

My knuckle/mace whining QQ thread