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How Defense Works

Started by Hugh , Jan 18 2012 07:01 AM

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#1 Hugh

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:01 AM

Thanks to Sakana posting the formula for CAD (critical added damage) reduction we now know exactly how defense works.

Percentage damage reduction is given by 100*(Defense) / [(Defense)+Attacker LV *10)]. For CAD reduction the defense value is divided by 4.

Graph showing damage reduction vs defense for different levels.

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The graph/formula shows that 80% damage reduction is reached at:
-3400 defense for Attacker lvl 85.
-2760 defense for Attacker lvl 69.
-1960 def for Attacker lvl 49.

The graph/formula shows that having over 3400 defense against lvl 85 helps to reduce CAD further (tested this in game and it works in this way).

Table of Defense vs Damage reduction for lvl 85:

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Table for CAD reduction for different defense (lvl 85):
Spoiler

Edited by Hugh, 28 February 2012 - 02:35 PM.

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#2 tally

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:33 AM

Final Damage *2 + CAD * (Defense/2) / [(Defense/2)+Attacker LV *10)]


As Hugh figures here, normal defence should be def / [ def + (lvl * 10) ] ?

Sakana can you confirm this?

Is this PvP only, or PvE also (ie boss damage)

And has this always been the way, or is this recent after CAD nerf patch?

Ta!


If this is the right defence formula... from this thread about boss stats max boss level is L85, so we'd need 3400 def to get 80% reduction, and (if my sleepy brain is working) 6800 to get 80% reduction on CAD.

Edited by tally, 18 January 2012 - 11:25 AM.

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#3 Fudd

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:18 PM

time to invest more points in my druids def skills:)
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#4 MakoXD

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:17 PM

oh
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#5 Hugh

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 02:11 PM

And has this always been the way, or is this recent after CAD nerf patch?


It's always been this way, here's a plot of a test I did with a Lvl 61 deer some time ago with this 'new' defense formula predicting it perfectly:
(old defense thread - http://forums.warppo...efense-formula/)

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If this is the right defence formula... from this thread about boss stats max boss level is L85, so we'd need 3400 def to get 80% reduction, and (if my sleepy brain is working) 6800 to get 80% reduction on CAD.


Yea should be 6800 but I don't think bosses have cad.

Edited by Hugh, 18 January 2012 - 02:39 PM.

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#6 Fudd

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:40 AM

Yea should be 6800 but I don't think bosses have cad.

have doubts about this aswell.... but would be damn nice to reduce* that aswell :D

Edited by Fudd, 19 January 2012 - 01:41 AM.

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#7 vukovic

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:29 AM

Doesn't matter how high they move cap, as long as the formula is this way, phys classes are the :P ones.
If u noticed, the 50% phys dmg reduction comes with 900 defense which is like 1/4 of the "cap" ( its lil more bit lets call it that way), so basically, with 1/4 of cap def u reduce 50% incoming phys damage, that's like having 20% resistance and reducing 50% damage.
I know there is a difference in amount of physical attack and magic attack but after all these reductions the massive phys attack comes quite useles, also not suggesting that the 50% phys dmg reduction should be 5/8 of the cap (2040), but at least little more then 900...

Edited by vukovic, 25 January 2012 - 09:55 AM.

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#8 Hugh

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:02 AM

Updated original post with new cad formula.

Spoiler


You should get 80% cad reduction with 13,600 defense now if cap has been set as 80%.
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#9 Sakana

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

After lots of thinking and pestering by Vulkovic, I have realized a possible issue with the SCAD/CAD formula where Defense is involved.

Currently, the formula is set where the Defense Value is reduced to 1/4 before it is plugged into the defense formula.

Attached File  mathtex.jpg   7.93KB   38 downloads

But to make this change similar to Resistance, which is based on a Percentage and not on a numeric Defense amount, I think that the formula should be changed to where the SCAD/CAD is reduced after the Defense is plugged into the Defense formula

Attached File  mathtex (1).jpg   8.09KB   19 downloads

I will point this out to devs so that it may be considered to be fixed.
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#10 Loyalty1

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

After lots of thinking and pestering by Vulkovic


Didn't that guy went emo with the cad nerf and said he quitted the game?

;)
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#11 vukovic

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

Didn't that guy went emo with the cad nerf and said he quitted the game?

;)

That doesn't mean i still don't care.

Go back 2 ur cave.
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#12 Loyalty1

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

That doesn't mean i still don't care.

Go back 2 ur cave.


You're just SO cute when you're all mad!

;)
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#13 vukovic

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:32 PM

You're just SO cute when you're all mad!

;)

I believe u got emotion-recognizing problems, is that why ur alone? :thumb:
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#14 Loyalty1

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:14 AM

penis


Gross!

Why are you going off-topic!
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#15 Nadesh

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:11 AM

That would be a great change:

An example for lvl 85:

If 3400 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.5) = 500

New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.2) = 800

If 6000 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.64) = 360
New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.22) = 780

If 1000 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.23) = 770
New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.14) = 860


This change make the extra defense above the defense cap to worth almost nothing, which is great bcs was one of the big problems. It also make more fair the difference between cad/scad vs defense with scad vs resistances. It give a small adventage to physical classes in terms of less cad/scad reduction when the target have low defense but physical classes are usualy in disadventage against mages, so this also may help to balance.
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#16 vukovic

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:14 AM

pestering

This.
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#17 linker591

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:13 PM

it took them 3 years to implement the current formula...it will take another 3 years to correct it...
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#18 UltC

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:22 PM

That would be a great change:

An example for lvl 85:

If 3400 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.5) = 500

New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.2) = 800

If 6000 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.64) = 360
New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.22) = 780

If 1000 defense and 1000 cad/scad

Old formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.23) = 770
New formula ---> CADf = 1000 * (1 - 0.14) = 860


This change make the extra defense above the defense cap to worth almost nothing, which is great bcs was one of the big problems. It also make more fair the difference between cad/scad vs defense with scad vs resistances. It give a small adventage to physical classes in terms of less cad/scad reduction when the target have low defense but physical classes are usualy in disadventage against mages, so this also may help to balance.


It would also almost nullify the cad nerf though, as it'd cap the cad reduction to ~22% at 6000 def. Assuming the defense formula applies to mobs/bosses as well, it would make raids (and grinding) faster but a little harder to tank. It'd also help balancing phys classes vs casters as Nadesh mentioned.
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#19 otinane

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

well i tried with friend he have 1.5k scad on cap defence with melee skill he crit 850.... the amount of scad reduce is ridiculous really need sth to be done...
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#20 Famous

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Reducing damage from 7.2k on 0 defence to 1.4k on "cap" defence is pretty silly.

Edited by Famous, 04 March 2012 - 02:31 PM.

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#21 Syre

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

Reducing damage from 7.2k on 0 defence to 1.4k on "cap" defence is pretty silly.


quite
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#22 gimek

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:44 AM

Hmm my damage went from 7.5k on 0 def to 2.7k on capped def, I think you are broken.
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#23 Famous

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:50 AM

Hmm my damage went from 7.5k on 0 def to 2.7k on capped def, I think you are broken.


troll or?
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#24 otinane

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:07 AM

lol 2.7k dmg on cap even zerker with +30 8/8 all no crit more than 1.5-7k on cap so yea u superman gogo 4k crit on cap
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#25 Hugh

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:48 AM

Depends what you mean by cap, cad/phys scad gets reduced by 50% at 3.4k defense but more at higher defense.

Should reach full 80% reduction at 13.6k defense.
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