167 replies to this topic

[Razgriz]

The updates we are receiving from kRO require the previous patch to be implemented to be able to add to the game. While having a good 2-3 weeks to test sakray would have been preferable, it wasn't possible in this case. If it wasn't added in, 14.1 couldn't have come in, if 14.1 doesn't go in our update schedule gets pushed back to a degree that we really don't want.

Then why sakray was scheduled for the last week prior to balance patch due date?

[GuardianTK]

I think what's missing now is "Community Feedback" rather than "QQ this class is no longer useful." Could use more feedback saying "This is no longer useful and this is why....etc."

[CyFire]

I was just having fun leveling my SC and boom... not only does the damage of plagurized skills go down but now with 2x the SP cost. Thats one of the characters I was trying to level gone. Then over to my RG.... Bleh not woth even getting on that anymore. My warlock is ok i guess dosn't seem like much happened to him except that now in woe everyone will know what armor to switch to if I cast a TV wth is up with that.

If i get around to testing my other classes I will leave more feedback.

Well alot of people really don't quit when they say they are but most of them stop paying. And if I don't quit, after my VIP runs out I'm damn sure not going to renew it. If you want feedback on what will make me stay ... then how about communications. Everything you do is vauge with no way of telling what is going to happen. New content like 14.1 Im ok with keeping a secret. But the balance patches? Stating stuff like fixed cast time changed?!? To what? No one was prepared for this patch. And with very little actual time to test on sakray there was no way for people to figure out the new mechanics. So now we get do that on a live server with stat resets costing money. Resets that will need to happen just to figure out the mechanics that are not given to us.

Another aspect of renewall that is impossibly wrong now that im on a rant is status points... why is it that they dont really do anything anymore? Heck I have a level 83 biochem that can level quite nicely with 1's in all his stats (well except int. thats 40).

[Inubashiri]

I think what's missing now is "Community Feedback" rather than "QQ this class is no longer useful." Could use more feedback saying "This is no longer useful and this is why....etc."

We're trying to decide between a forum type feedback or something like a survey for each WP account, probably be the latter. I do know they want to wait until 14.1 is put on the mains to see how much the new equipment help, then tweak from there.

[Hrishi]

People have been saying RO will die since 2004, this game is worse than a -_-roach in a nuclear holocaust. It'll survive, just like it always has. A lot of new games have come out recently, which probably has contributed to the low numbers in population, it'll get better eventually. I swear if I had a nickel for every time someone predicted RO's demise, I'd be a multi-millionaire by now.

[GuardianTK]

People have been saying RO will die since 2004, this game is worse than a -_-roach in a nuclear holocaust. It'll survive, just like it always has. A lot of new games have come out recently, which probably has contributed to the low numbers in population, it'll get better eventually. I swear if I had a nickel for every time someone predicted RO's demise, I'd be a multi-millionaire by now.

Something about this post made me laugh. xD

We're trying to decide between a forum type feedback or something like a survey for each WP account, probably be the latter. I do know they want to wait until 14.1 is put on the mains to see how much the new equipment help, then tweak from there.

I'd like for the latter to happen. You'll get more participation that way. Not to mention "mostly" straightforward results.

[Andini]

What I'm raging about

Classes that were already struggling being made unplayable in PvM and as such, have no chance of
reaching a level that they can WoE.

This is the thing that pisses me off the most and is the deciding factor for me not renewing my 2 VIP accounts
in January. If it wasn't for that damn mechanic that I have insisted on playing through thick and thin, I would
probably be MIA till this mess is fixed.

Fix double nerfs-pick a nerf and stick with it. Some classes are hit with compound nerfs for no reason at all.
Can we reject fixes and formulas we don't like? I know JRO does. Some new nerfs make old ones unnecessary.
Once major bugs are repaired, a huge effort will need to be made to revise formulas so people can at
least level their characters.

On the other side of things

Congratulation GXs for actually being able to kill people now.
It was silly how an assassin class couldn't kill for beans.
No, they aren't OP, they just haven't been on the threat radar for so long that people have forgotten
how to defend against them. If you have under 30K HP, you are suppose to be afraid of being 1HKO by an assassin.
This and the no vending next to NPCs. At least something turned out right.

if you honestly think that a decently played and fairly well geared gx could not kill anyone before this balance patch, then you must be playing a diff game. gxs were one of the most versatile classes in what they could do prebalance. they could kill/support/debuff/break emps/move around with backslide - along with a decent hp mod. they certainly werent the best at it, but they were far from being ones to overlook

[Skotios]

Okaaaaaay So I see this in like every thread but enlighten me...From a PVM perspective (becuase believe it or not you WoErs dont own RO) how are sura's OP? As far as I can tell ride lighting having a cast time was a huge kick to the face. Now people still whining for more nerfing? If RO is going to die its because of a super failure community and not the GMs/game itself.

[LuxiLux]

We are beaten down by the false advertisement!

I'd like to see where, and what time GMs have posted that Laurel Wreath/ Incarnation Doll were leveling headgears. In fact, just by reading the effects, you'd realize these were gimmick or vanity headgears.

[HRdevil]

People have been saying RO will die since 2004, this game is worse than a -_-roach in a nuclear holocaust. It'll survive, just like it always has. A lot of new games have come out recently, which probably has contributed to the low numbers in population, it'll get better eventually. I swear if I had a nickel for every time someone predicted RO's demise, I'd be a multi-millionaire by now.

I swear if i had a nickle for everytime you say that I'd be multi-millionaire.

[peeweehonda]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

And user numbers have been very low since November, well before the skill balance update was in public testing, also we have banned a TON of bots in the past 21 days and have taken steps to disallow them from as easily creating more.

ok u want feed back u got it
the sp consomtion sucks for sc manhole comone so u get stuck in one spot for a little time put it back to the way it was what u did by adding this balance patch is make it so sc and ohter class that could levle on there own cantthis patch is clearly to make suras gx and what ever else class that dint take a hit get stronger oh yea they didnt need to get stronger they win about manhole and what ever else we could copy oh yea i for got someone who plays with animosity doesnt want to make the game fair so thats why i am quiting

[Mwrip]

I should hope that the people who are leaving will come back eventually when things are sorted out, though it's unfortunate if people leave without expressing what they would have wanted to change. As you can see from the recent patches on kRO, there are ongoing patches being made to the skill updates being requested by their community as well-even they have to admit that there are changes necessary.

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

Serious question: How exactly can we provide feedback in such a way that kRO will actually do something about it?

Although this new patch introduced a few new PvM issues, the overwhelming majority of the PvM problems have been there for the last 14 months, and the community was quite willing to provide feedback in the Renewal feedback forum that's been there for that long, as well as in various threads. A lot of us were under the impression that this patch would even include some of those ideas before we got the Google docs showing that it very much wouldn't.

To the best of my knowledge, kRO has granted a grand total of *zero* iRO requests in the last 14 months (one if they did they party share rules thing), and everything we've gotten has been iRO staff working around kRO refusing to care, such as tripling Eden 9x quest xp to fix the trans curve and making TIs so party play exists at least as an event. You guys do a great job, and are very much why the game isn't already dead, but in the end, when kRO absolutely refuses to grant ANY request unless either kRO or jRO players make it, where can we as players make suggestions without first learning Japanese or Korean?

[StStephen]

I've read several posts lately comparing this update to the implementation of renewal. The key difference here is that with renewal we got tons of exciting new content to mess with, here we just have most of our characters nerfed and even with the cool new stuff coming out in 14.1 we won't even be even with where we were before this ner... I mean balence patch.

Its not that this update is going to kill RO. But its another poor decision that will cause some people to quit and many to decrease their spending on the game (not to mention their involvement in the community).

It seems like the patch can't be undone. So now the key is going to be to undo as much of the damage as possible. Reverse the majority of the nerfs as quickly as you can and I think most people who left/decreased their play because of the changes will come back. Honestly the question the GMs should be asking is not which nerfs should be reversed, the question is which one's should not be reversed.

[D111]

@ OP...No, it will be fine.

[XIII_Eraser]

Ragnarok going to happen to Ragnarok?

[Chrisalyd]

doesn´t matter what we said the patch is allready here so we have to deal with it, just finding a new way of play the game, i the most thing i hate about this is the time between 1 cast & another one, but life goes on & this is a game so i gonna play it ^^

[Oda]

I think what's missing now is "Community Feedback" rather than "QQ this class is no longer useful." Could use more feedback saying "This is no longer useful and this is why....etc."

There are new sticky'd feedback threads in the 14.1 section where players can post just that. example: the skill damage change request thread http://forums.warppo...amage-requests/ is the example,

[Hinkypunk]

We have a large number of people writing in that are encountering patching or permissions issues after the patch, which is pretty common.

We've had more advance warning of the contents of the patch prior to receiving it, so we knew that it would be controversial and would be changing things that a lot of people have been used to.

I should hope that the people who are leaving will come back eventually when things are sorted out, though it's unfortunate if people leave without expressing what they would have wanted to change. As you can see from the recent patches on kRO, there are ongoing patches being made to the skill updates being requested by their community as well-even they have to admit that there are changes necessary.

The focus for getting the skill updates on the main servers was first and foremost knocking out showstopping bugs, conflicts with VIP or other systems and making sure that the servers weren't sideways and on fire on Wednesday morning. With the size of our team we have to work with what we've got.

I'll be updating the drydock thread and putting a "Oda: we're testing this/Oda: can you get screenshots/Oda: this will be fixed next maintenance" on bug report posts.

Feedback given before it is even on Sakray is IGNORED because it is not feedback based on fact, it is based on speculation.

And the feedback on specifics is very poor in general, complaints of general I feel underpowered or I want this skill to be stronger isn't nearly as helpful as:


Arrow Storm has a long cast time, a small AOE, and poor damage, increasing damage so that it is double that of Double Strafe applied to an area could be a better solution.


I agree that there are very specific feedbacsk that some have given which fits the criteria for us to move on with requesting the changes. This was a problem last year, as 1 person trying to collect data that is not well presented is a monumental task especially when some players don't post factual information. There have in fact been many posts with players posting downright lies about what a skill effect currently is, and then others have to correct them. That sort of "noise" is not only aggitating to us but it aslo stirs up more problems in the community.

Heim and Oda,

I understand why, from a budgeting and marketing standpoint, your priority was to get this patch implemented before the start of the new year. That said, while the new patch has some functionality and didn't crash the live servers, it was not ready for release. And while having to delay a release when multiple deadlines have already come and gone is never a desired outcome, it is sometimes unavoidable in order to ensure quality--and ultimately 'delay' is the lesser of the two evils (inferior product vs delayed product) when catering to customers. To use an analogy, it's the student's dilemma when up against a due date: submit an inferior assignment below the professor's expectations, or request a time extension so that although late, the professor is provided with something worthy of his or her evaluation. Two options, but the former leaves your professor questioning your competency.

And, yes, there has been a lot of "noise." Just don't be too quick to dismiss customer feedback as "lies." Your perceptions and expectations will rarely match up with others. The concept of Truth is subjective. Please remember that.

All feedback communicates something--whether it's a rash of players threatening to quit or general discontent and flaming/trolling. You might ask yourselves how on earth is rampant customer dissatisfaction at all helpful to you? It isn't--However, the fact that you have the option of seeing why your customers are dissatisfied is a strategic advantage if you choose to harness it and make it useful! You can use this free information to guide your decisions on how best to maintain your customer base. Even if you can't delight the majority of your customers, you can at least work towards reassuring and placating them. Otherwise you have customers out the door.

We've been reading the threads, using them to test and collecting information-if you'd like I can put a blanket "yes we are looking at this" response to every post on the 14.1 testing subforum because that's what we're doing.

We're trying to decide between a forum type feedback or something like a survey for each WP account, probably be the latter. I do know they want to wait until 14.1 is put on the mains to see how much the new equipment help, then tweak from there.

Here's a suggestion: Make a sticky post that that has a running list of reported bugs and whether they're confirmed, fixed, or require more investigation:

• Bug Description
• Date Reported
• Priority Level [Optional--but good to have]
• Confirmed, Investigating, or Fixed
• Work-around / Solution [If applicable]

.
.
.

I may not be the happiest of customers right now, but I hope you can benefit from this criticism. This is my feedback--take it or leave it.

[ensignfluke]

Umm we had a lot of other people saying they were quitting UNTIL the balance patch happens..

If you want things to get better the I quit mentality solves nothing unless you post specific things why, such as this skill is a problem. We have the capacity to get things changed, but with no feedback we are not able to take your view into account.

There's just a point when you stop caring, because you know it will take weeks, months, years, or even never to get things fixed. I'd be happy if fire trap and reproduce were back to being the way they were before this so called balancing patch. I can understand if it should do more damage for rangers, but you could just make their damage higher from trap research instead of ruining it completely for shadow chasers. I mean really, I do 90 damage with the skill now on things that are weak to fire, wtf is up with that? I don't appreciate spending double sp either, especially when most 3rd class skills that were once worth reproducing take so much sp in the first place. Before this patch I was fine paying for VIP, even when I rarely played anymore. Now I just wish I could have my money back for the 2 and a half months that are left.

[orven]

Heim and Oda,

I understand why, from a budgeting and marketing standpoint, your priority was to get this patch implemented before the start of the new year. That said, while the new patch has some functionality and didn't crash the live servers, it was not ready for release. And while having to delay a release when multiple deadlines have already come and gone is never a desired outcome, it is sometimes unavoidable in order to ensure quality--and ultimately 'delay' is the lesser of the two evils (inferior product vs delayed product) when catering to customers. To use an analogy, it's the student's dilemma when up against a due date: submit an inferior assignment below the professor's expectations, or request a time extension so that although late, the professor is provided with something worthy of his or her evaluation. Two options, but the former leaves your professor questioning your competency.

And, yes, there has been a lot of "noise." Just don't be too quick to dismiss customer feedback as "lies." Your perceptions and expectations will rarely match up with others. The concept of Truth is subjective. Please remember that.

All feedback communicates something--whether it's a rash of players threatening to quit or general discontent and flaming/trolling. You might ask yourselves how on earth is rampant customer dissatisfaction at all helpful to you? It isn't--However, the fact that you have the option of seeing why your customers are dissatisfied is a strategic advantage if you choose to harness it and make it useful! You can use this free information to guide your decisions on how best to maintain your customer base. Even if you can't delight the majority of your customers, you can at least work towards reassuring and placating them. Otherwise you have customers out the door.






Here's a suggestion: Make a sticky post that that has a running list of reported bugs and whether they're confirmed, fixed, or require more investigation:



I may not be the happiest of customers right now, but I hope you can benefit from this criticism. This is my feedback--take it or leave it.

if i am to rate what GM has done to their customers? if 10 is the highest, then my answer is 3, which means a poor customer service. sorry again sir, no offense but that's they way you treated your customers.

[Clogon]

Feedback given before it is even on Sakray is IGNORED because it is not feedback based on fact, it is based on speculation.

This is quite disrespectful to those who have access and tested things on kRO like me. =(

[orven]

to GM's, one more thing. make an action plan for the most raised issues and update your customers from time to time.

[Wiggles]

There is something you guys have missed, and it may be that you haven't played long enough to notice.

Every single update that has come to the game has been half finished. There has never been a single major update that doesn't require emergency maintenance afterwards to fix something.
Every "feature" of the game is half done and poorly implemented. Party finder, auction house, mail system, monster arena/racetrack, you name it.

Simply because, they know they cannot please everyone with an update. Some people will be disappointed.
This is why they implement the update to please a few people (in this case, not the RK's) and promise to fix it all in the next update. Next time they fix it, and make someone else unhappy.

Its the only way they can keep players hanging on.


TLDR - Next update is gonna fix some things, and probably break even more.

[sayoko]

Okaaaaaay So I see this in like every thread but enlighten me...From a PVM perspective (becuase believe it or not you WoErs dont own RO) how are sura's OP? As far as I can tell ride lighting having a cast time was a huge kick to the face. Now people still whining for more nerfing? If RO is going to die its because of a super failure community and not the GMs/game itself.

for pvm? they still have guillotine fist >_>, if my class had a skill that let me 1 shot a mvp of 2m+hp i wouldnt mind to have 30 mins cooldown >.<

want aoe damage? sura never was supposed to be a crowd control class.... but they still have rampage blast >_>(and learn 2 party)

[KaneBlueriver]

Personally speaking, good or bad, this game needs constant changing. Why? So it doesn't get so... uh... boring. Atleast for me, that's the case. Since Alpha test. (However, I do come and go)