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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:51 PM

What is bugged, or undesirable about the Ranger?

What skills are fine, need tweaking?
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#2 Yggdrasil

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:54 PM

My rangers falcon auto attacks but deals little to no damage. I have all the skills needed. If theres a monster nearby the one im killing and the bird attacks that monster turns to attack me like normal, and yet I see no damage. I dont know if I cant see it because of my attack speed or if its really not doing anything and yet monsters are registering that something related to my character attacked it.

Heres my original bug thread http://forums.warppo...birds-dont-mix/
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#3 Talvis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:00 PM

Right now, my only gripe is the fixed cast on focused arrow strike. It needs to be either cut in half or eliminated.
This is more of a wish list type thing, but maybe make a Falcon summoning item. Right now, if you go Wurg, pretty much all your Falcon skills are pointless since you can't just drop the wurg and call the Falcon without going back to Hugel. More then likely this wont happen though due to balancing issues.
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#4 Kaden14

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:32 PM

get rid of the cast delay when getting on/off the wolf
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#5 An1ma

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:04 PM

camoflauge shouldn't have a walking speed reduction. Make the duration longer too.
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#6 neokenshin

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:04 PM

Focused Arrow Strike needs to have no cast time at all.

In addition, Traps are dealing damage to both allies and enemies in WoE. Is it possible to fix it not to deal damage to allies?


camoflauge shouldn't have a walking speed reduction. Make the duration longer too.


The duration problem will be fixed the moment we get the updated Ranger Balancing patch. kRO has it, so PLEASE GMs, get this balancing patch ASAP and allow Rangers to finally be a better class!

Edited by neokenshin, 01 November 2010 - 05:09 PM.

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#7 Clogon

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:11 PM

@Yggdrasil:
Have you EVER used auto Blitz at low job level before RE? What is happening is normal and intended! The Auto Blitz is 1 hit for every 10 job lvl. Until you get to job level 11, you will only do 1 hit and will need to get to job level 41+ to get all 5 hits.



On topic:
The underlined parts are added from the first time I reported this. And I removed the parts that are not Ranger related.

This here is a massive list of bugs and complains that will NOT be fixed in the latest kRO Ranger balancing patch or any patches up to date.


Bugs:

Hunter Class Branch Specific:

Remove Trap and Sensitive Keen from a Hunter Class Branch cannot affect Rogue Class Branch's traps and vice versa.

Spoiler

Aimed Bolt, and Arrow Storm can be used without a Bow as long as you have Arrows equipped.

Trap damage can be reflected back onto the Ranger using Melee reflect equips like Valkyrian Manteau or Skills like Shield Reflect and possibly Spell Shield (did not test this last one).
Spoiler

All Ranger Traps do not receive a 4x Duration bonus in WoE Maps like Hunter Traps do.
Spoiler

All Ranger Traps cannot be casted on Magnetic Earth. As you may know Traps are not Magical and should not be affected by ME especially since Hunter traps can be used during ME.

Using Warg Dash while having something in front of you will consume SP, put you into After Cast Delay and yield no effect. It should instead show a skill Failure message and prevent the SP consumption and After Cast Delay.

(No Screens for this one because I can't take a screen of nothing happening.) While using Warg Dash, if you are immobilized by a Status like Stun or a Skill like Ankle Snare or are blocked by Sheltering Bliss or Basillica, you will be unable to do anything until you:
1) die.
2) use Warg Dash again.


Other Bugs that affect the Ranger and other classes:

Forced Neutral skills like Rapid Smiting (Paladin), Hell's Gate (Sura) and Ranger Traps (Cluster Bomb, Fire and Ice Traps) can be endowed with element to do bonus damage but still miss on Ghosts. I am pretty sure other forced neutral skills are like this too but I can only confirm these ones.
Spoiler

Bows do not receive bonus Magic Attack for upgrades it makes Rudra, Gust Bow and the new Mystic Bow that's coming in 13.3 a lot weaker than they should be.
2 handed Weapons do not receive Over Refine Bonus which gives a random bonus depending on your weapon's level.kRO 03/17/2010 Further testing shows that ONLY BOWS don't get any over refine random bonus that varies even if you have power maximization or Crit, example[/url][/b].


Hunter Branch Skill Description Errors (I can provide screens if needed):

Arrow Shower still lists the old damage mods even if they have been doubled in Renewal.

Falcon Assault's description has a needless and distracting break in it.

Aimed Bolt says bonus damage is deal on enemies "immobilized (by Ankle Snare, Electric Shock, Warg Bite..etc)" but there is NO etc this skill only deals bonus damage if the target is affected by these 3 specific skills.

Fear Breeze level 3 says it has a 7% chance of activation but through testing it is considerably lower than this. I only got 4.6%. Here is a package of 170 Fear Breeze Activation within approximately 3700 attacks. You can look at my remaining Arrows. Don't forget that each bonus hit from Fear Breeze will take an Arrow.


Cluster Bomb says it has a damage mod of 100%/200%/300%/400%/500%. When in reality, it's 300%/400%/500%/600%/700% damage mod.

Detonator says its "Skill range is 7x7 around the trap" but it is 7x7 around the targeted area.

Fire Trap's says it has a 3x3 Area but it is actually 5x5.

Ice Trap's is incomplete.

Warg Tooth level 10 has a strange "^7777 Atk +60".

Warg Rider says it cannot use any Bow attack or skills that are not Warg exclusive but does not mention that trap skills can be used.

Warg Dash says it requires Warg Strike learned to deal damage but it doesn't.

Warg Bite says it has a 10 second duration + increase from Tooth but actually has 20s + increase.


Hunter Branch Complaints:

Hunter Trap's HP is too low (3500 HP with no Def) they can be destroyed too easily by buffed Arrow Shower while trying to stack or reposition them. Possible fix would be to double their HP.

Auto Cast Blitz Beat is still dependent on j.lvl even as Ranger and is even more useless as Rangers can't use both pets at once. It gives PVM Rangers absolutely no reason to keep or even get Falcon skills because the Falcon in PVM does not have the damage or utility comparable to the Warg/Wug. Possible fix see below.

Falcon Assault is very weak for a skill with 0.5s fixed + 1s variable casting time and 3s aftercast delay compared to the many instant cast skills available to the Archer. Possible fix would be to allow it to be auto casted instead of Blitz Beat if you have this skill at job level 51 or higher Sniper or if you are a Ranger.

Focus Arrow Strike's 1s fixed casting time is WAY too high for this skill to be of any use. Possible fix would be to remove the Fixed casting time of this skill.

Wind Walker's Fixed casting time is needlessly high for such an underpowered buff. Possible fix would be to remove the fixed casting time.

Aimed Bolt is too limiting for the low damage that it provides compared to stronger burst range skills. It only works with Ankle Snare, Electric Shock and Warg Bite. In PVM, the best way to level is by mobbing because there are no good strong monsters that give exp/h that rivals mobbing with traps except MVP's. However MVP's are unaffected by Electric Shock and Warg Bite is disabled on MVP maps making this skill even more limiting and useless. The Devs might say that they will buff the damage to (500+50*s.lvl)*b.lvl/100*(hit bonus if snared) but this is not enough to make the skill useful with the current monster design or in PVP/WoE when there are so many ways to prevent and remove Ankle Snare, Electric Shock and Warg Bite. As many people on iROwiki posted, a good way to fix this would be to allow it to work with the immobilization from other skills and status effects. Here is a list:
Status Effect:
*Diamond Dust's misnamed "Mode Cold"
*Deep Sleep
*Fear's immobilization
*Frozen
*Sleep
*Stun
*Stone Curse

Skills:
*Performer's Despair Song
*Stalker's Close Confine
*Warlock's White Imprisonment
*Scholar's Fibre Lock
*Sorcerer's Vacuum extreme
*Mechanic's Magnetic Field
*Genetic's Thorn Trap
*Genetic's Banana Bomb's Force Sit
*Sera's Needle of Paralysis (New Homunculus skill)
*Elenor's Tinder Breaker (New Homunculus skill)
*Elenor's C.B.C. (Continual Break Combo) (New Homunculus skill)
*Monk's Root
*Champion's Glacier Fist
*Sura's Fallen Empire
*Sura's Cursed Circle
Arrow Storm does not compare to ANY of the other ranged AoE skills. Making it (200+50*s.lvl)*b.lvl and increasing its AoE doesn't 11x11 at lvl 10 doesn't make this skill any less useless. Traps will be better than this skill no matter how the Devs increase AoE and Damage unless they make it even stronger than Severe Rainstorm. And that would be entirely stupid. Here is a simple comparison between Ranger skills:

Arrow Storm VS Cluster Bomb
10 Arrows (1~3 weight) vs 1 special alloy trap (0.2 weight)
48 SP vs 20 SP
1050% vs 700% + 6k+ damage from stats
0.5s fixed + 2s variable casting time vs instant cast
3s cooldown vs no cooldown
15 skill points vs 9 skill points to use at max lvl and effectively

You can see that Arrow Storm is absolute crap even with kRO's new updated damage. I see no point in increasing the damage as it would require such a huge buff that it would need to do more than 36k as 3 Cluster Bomb is able to do that instantly. What they should do is reduce the SP cost, Arrow cost and Casting time/delay. The Devs showed that they are OK with an instant castable ASPD spammable skill that isn't reduced by Thara and etc by making Cart Cannon.

Again this is not even comparing to the full list of High damage ranged AoE skills that melee classes have. Is it really fair for the range specialty class to have range skills that can't even compare to a tenth of range skills of melee classes?


Fear Breeze's Damage output is ABYSMAL compared to similar skills from even first class! This skill at level 5 has a 10% chance to activate. Once activated it has a chance to do 2~5 hits, this chance is distributed as 40% for 2 hits, 30% for 3, 20% for 4 and 10% for 5. There for the DPS output is 0.1*(0.4*2+0.3*3+0.2*4+0.1*5)+0.9*1=1.2x. This means that your DPS with normal attacks only will increase to 1.2x. However This skill is not only a 3rd class skill but requires casting, and extra Arrows (therefor extra weight) and 17 skill points to master. Double attack (passive 1st class no requirement skill that gives bonus hit AND doesn't consume extra arrows) gives a DPS of 0.5*2+0.5*1=1.5x! Lets even compare it to other skills in the Ranger's arsenal instead like Falcon Eyes which also gives +20% damage to skills or Warg Strike that also doesn't consume Arrows and will give more DPS than Fear Breeze with only 12 luk (12/3% activation * 600% damage mod = +24% DPS)! The problem with this skill is that not only is it active and requires a lot of skill points and ARROWS! This skill can also activate even if you kill the monster with 1 hit wasting up to 5 Arrows for monster that only required 1. Doing any of the following will make this skill a lot better:
1) Make it passive and not consume arrows
2) Make it separate attacks instead of extra hits so we can have more chances to status, auto cast and Crit.
3) Make it always deal the maximum number of hits so that it will have a dps output of 1.4x instead of the current 1.2x.

Ranger Main should affect Insects too just like Beast Bane.

Elemental converter traps (Magenta, Cobalt, Maze and Vendure Traps) are way too expensive for what they do. 1 elemental stone is too much for a cost if it only affects normal monsters that can be killed easily by changing Arrow element. More than 50% of the Ranger's damage skills are forced Neutral anyways which deal 100% damage to all monsters except Ghost. While the ones that aren't uses element depending on Arrows. And the elemental Stones are damn heavy! Rangers already need to carry Traps and Arrows for their excursions 10 extra weight for every time they want to use 1 skill that only lasts until a normal monster's death is way too much! This skill can be better with any of the following:
1) Lower cost from elemental stone to 1 Scorpion Tail, 1 Snail's Shell, 1 Horn, or 1 Rainbow Shell.
2) Allow it to affect players, summons and homunculii for a set duration.
3) Allow it to affect boss monsters including MVP's for a set duration.

Electric Shock doesn't affect MVP's and the SP drain at level 5 is too weak to warrant getting this skill beyond lvl 1. Duration remains the same regardless of level and because it is reduced by Agi/10 witha min duration of 7s on players draining 35% SP over 7 seconds is quite negligible.

Warg Strike and Bite requires pathable cells between the caster and the target and is therefore blocked by Ice Wall and cannot be used for "cliffing" in siege or normal maps. Please change this.
Spoiler


Edited by Clogon, 05 November 2010 - 04:39 AM.

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#8 TurrTurr

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 03:37 AM

Firstly, PLEASE Hurry up with the skill buffs from kRO (Camo is vastly improved, lowered SP cost for several skills, can place two fire/ice traps, place cluster bomb under monsters, etc etc.), that'll fix the majority of my complaints.

Secondly, Fix the cast time of Wind Walk/FAS.

Also make it possible to use the teleport skill while on the Warg.

Also Also, everything Clogon said, as he knows more about Ranger then I ever could.

Edited by TurrTurr, 03 November 2010 - 03:45 AM.

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#9 Yggdrasil

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 04:45 AM

@Yggdrasil:
Have you EVER used auto Blitz at low job level before RE? What is happening is normal and intended! The Auto Blitz is 1 hit for every 10 job lvl. Until you get to job level 11, you will only do 1 hit and will need to get to job level 41+ to get all 5 hits.

Well thats not stupid at all. So I basically need to have almost all my rangers job levels before I can use my bird effectively? Can this be changed?
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#10 Clogon

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 08:27 AM

I am assuming you want to keep your Ctrl+click play style? If so just get Warg Strike 5 and you'll easily out DPS the Falcon. Which is why I said:

Auto Cast Blitz Beat is still dependent on j.lvl even as Ranger and is even more useless as Rangers can't use both pets at once. It gives PVM Rangers absolutely no reason to keep or even get Falcon skills because the Falcon in PVM does not have the damage or utility comparable to the Warg/Wug. Possible fix see below.

Falcon Assault is very weak for a skill with 0.5s fixed + 1s variable casting time and 3s aftercast delay compared to the many instant cast skills available to the Archer. Possible fix would be to allow it to be auto casted instead of Blitz Beat if you have this skill at job level 51 or higher Sniper or if you are a Ranger.



You should really read over the post I made...

Edit:
It tells you a lot on what you should not do as a Ranger.

Edited by Clogon, 03 November 2010 - 08:31 AM.

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#11 Yggdrasil

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 03:36 PM

I am assuming you want to keep your Ctrl+click play style? If so just get Warg Strike 5 and you'll easily out DPS the Falcon. Which is why I said:




You should really read over the post I made...

Edit:
It tells you a lot on what you should not do as a Ranger.

No I just dont want to use the wolf, I dont like an ugly bulky thing following me. Stop assuming things about me when you dont even know me. =/

Edited by Yggdrasil, 03 November 2010 - 03:37 PM.

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#12 Clogon

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 03:44 PM

Well I thought you just like the Ctrl+Click play style... And there is a question mark to imply that I was unsure about it being correct. But yeah, your love for the falcon will be unrewarded. =/ You could use traps to level. I highly doubt they will make the falcon any better even if we post and complain. Just looking at the broken stuff they just implemented on kRO tells me that the Dev's could care less about balance. And I can't even complain about ASPD since there is no place to post that. How come Rangers LOSE Bow ASPD when changing jobs?

Edit:
It's because of stuff like this that I don't even bother posting about the imbalance of the other classes or correcting the ignorant masses that play them.

Edited by Clogon, 03 November 2010 - 03:46 PM.

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#13 Yggdrasil

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 03:50 PM

Well I thought you just like the Ctrl+Click play style... And there is a question mark to imply that I was unsure about it being correct. But yeah, your love for the falcon will be unrewarded. =/ You could use traps to level. I highly doubt they will make the falcon any better even if we post and complain. Just looking at the broken stuff they just implemented on kRO tells me that the Dev's could care less about balance. And I can't even complain about ASPD since there is no place to post that. How come Rangers LOSE Bow ASPD when changing jobs?

Yeah I do love my bird :( I really loved my snipers purple one, but I guess thats sniper only? I have been using traps to level, I just miss my bird being atleast somewhat useful. Ive never really liked the idea of a big ugly bulky thing following me around.... Also I saw some kRO videos where rangers had both the wolf and the bird. Was that a glitch or just someone stuck "kRO" onto footage from a private server?

The aspd was also something that bothered me when I job changed. I didnt check my snipers aspd before I changed so I thought it was just my imagination until I talked to a couple guild members. Is that something they can even fix if its broken?
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#14 Clogon

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 06:00 AM

It is a glitch. During the first week or 2 of RE you were able to have both on the Main servers. On the test server though there is a custom test NPC that can be tricked into giving you both.
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#15 Talvis

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:44 AM

Right now, tbh, I'm thinking of just keeping my falcon too. My main reason is, after getting all the bow based skills, I'll only have around 9 points left, not enough to really get any good wurg skills, but if I sacrifice a few points in camouflage I can get to at least one good trap skill to have along side my bow and falcon skills. However, I wasn't aware that come falcon skills were job level dependent, so I may have to re think this.
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#16 Theoretical

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 12:28 PM

Maestro Severe Rainstorm is the strongest bow skill in game. Poor Rangers.
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#17 Clogon

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:07 PM

after getting all the bow based skills


Why are you getting Bow based skills when they ALL suck? I can't believe how the Devs make ranged skills on Melee classes so much stronger than Bow skills!

Vanishing Point = 1200% ASPD spammable skill. (Seriously what where the Devs thinking when they made this imba skill?) A DS can only hit for 6k in PVM at most!

Aimed Bolt = 3600% on a Snared Medium target for 5 second casting time and 1 second After cast delay.

As you can see, even if this crap of a skill is LEX'd, you will still do less damage over time than and RG. If you want to use it as a Burst damage to 1 shot players, you need to realize that the skill only works on people affected by Ankle Snare, Electric Shocker and Warg Bite. The first 2 are easily countered and Warg skills require a walkable path between you and the target. The latter means that you will be vulnerable to the allies of your target. 5 second casting time (2s fixed) is plenty of time for the enemy to use one of many instant cast range skills to interrupt you. The fact that this skill removes any snare effect means that if you don't kill them (This will happen 100% of the time unless you are fighting utter noobs since damage is so crappy even for a burst skill) they will be free to do what ever they want.

You can read my post above to know other reasons why Aimed Bolt sucks including the reasons for the other skills.

Edited by Clogon, 04 November 2010 - 03:08 PM.

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#18 Talvis

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:54 PM

Why are you getting Bow based skills when they ALL suck? I can't believe how the Devs make ranged skills on Melee classes so much stronger than Bow skills!

Vanishing Point = 1200% ASPD spammable skill. (Seriously what where the Devs thinking when they made this imba skill?) A DS can only hit for 6k in PVM at most!

Aimed Bolt = 3600% on a Snared Medium target for 5 second casting time and 1 second After cast delay.

As you can see, even if this crap of a skill is LEX'd, you will still do less damage over time than and RG. If you want to use it as a Burst damage to 1 shot players, you need to realize that the skill only works on people affected by Ankle Snare, Electric Shocker and Warg Bite. The first 2 are easily countered and Warg skills require a walkable path between you and the target. The latter means that you will be vulnerable to the allies of your target. 5 second casting time (2s fixed) is plenty of time for the enemy to use one of many instant cast range skills to interrupt you. The fact that this skill removes any snare effect means that if you don't kill them (This will happen 100% of the time unless you are fighting utter noobs since damage is so crappy even for a burst skill) they will be free to do what ever they want.

You can read my post above to know other reasons why Aimed Bolt sucks including the reasons for the other skills.

For one, you're assuming I woe or pvp a lot, neither of which I do.
Now as for my plan, I personally liked the bow skills when I tested them. Are they the greatest, maybe not, but do they fit my playing style, yes!
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#19 Heimdallr

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:23 PM

For my notes.

camoflauge shouldn't have a walking speed reduction. The duration problem will be fixed the moment we get the updated Ranger Balancing patch. kRO has it, so PLEASE GMs, get this balancing patch ASAP and allow Rangers to finally be a better class!

Summon Whistle for Warp and Falcon to switch between.

Falcon not giving damage
Yggdrasil I assume your job levels are higher, is the damage still nill?

fixed cast on focused arrow strike lower.

Remove Trap and Sensitive Keen from a Hunter Class Branch cannot affect Rogue Class Branch's traps and vice versa.

Aimed Bolt, and Arrow Storm can be used without a Bow as long as you have Arrows equipped.

Trap damage can be reflected back onto the hunter/ranger with standard reflect things.

Using Warg Dash while having something in front of you will consume SP, put you into After Cast Delay and yield no effect. It should instead show a skill Failure message and prevent the SP consumption and After Cast Delay.
(No Screens for this one because I can't take a screen of nothing happening.) While using Warg Dash, if you are immobilized by a Status like Stun or a Skill like Ankle Snare or are blocked by Sheltering Bliss or Basillica, you will be unable to do anything until you:
1) die.
2) use Warg Dash again.

All Ranger Traps cannot be casted on Magnetic Earth. As you may know Traps are not Magical and should not be affected by ME especially since Hunter traps can be used during ME.


****All Ranger Traps do not receive a 4x Duration bonus in WoE Maps like Hunter Traps do.

Forced Neutral skills like Rapid Smiting (Paladin), Hell's Gate (Sura) and Ranger Traps (Cluster Bomb, Fire and Ice Traps) can be endowed with element to do bonus damage but still miss on Ghosts. I am pretty sure other forced neutral skills are like this too but I can only confirm these ones.

Further testing shows that ONLY BOWS don't get any over refine random bonus that varies even if you have power maximization or Crit, example[/url][/b].



Hunter Branch Skill Description Errors (I can provide screens if needed):

Arrow Shower still lists the old damage mods even if they have been doubled in Renewal.

Falcon Assault's description has a needless and distracting break in it.

Aimed Bolt says bonus damage is deal on enemies "immobilized (by Ankle Snare, Electric Shock, Warg Bite..etc)" but there is NO etc this skill only deals bonus damage if the target is affected by these 3 specific skills.

Fear Breeze level 3 says it has a 7% chance of activation but through testing it is considerably lower than this. I only got 4.6%. Here is a package of 170 Fear Breeze Activation within approximately 3700 attacks. You can look at my remaining Arrows. Don't forget that each bonus hit from Fear Breeze will take an Arrow.


Cluster Bomb says it has a damage mod of 100%/200%/300%/400%/500%. When in reality, it's 300%/400%/500%/600%/700% damage mod.

Detonator says its "Skill range is 7x7 around the trap" but it is 7x7 around the targeted area.

Fire Trap's says it has a 3x3 Area but it is actually 5x5.

Ice Trap's is incomplete.

Warg Tooth level 10 has a strange "^7777 Atk +60".

Warg Rider says it cannot use any Bow attack or skills that are not Warg exclusive but does not mention that trap skills can be used.

Warg Dash says it requires Warg Strike learned to deal damage but it doesn't.

Warg Bite says it has a 10 second duration + increase from Tooth but actually has 20s + increase.
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#20 GuardianTK

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:51 PM

Are you serious about the thing where over-upgraded bows don't have a bonus? D:<
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#21 Yggdrasil

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:13 AM

For my notes.


Yggdrasil I assume your job levels are higher, is the damage still nill?

Not enough to hit job level 20, if I read correctly the hit jumps every 10 jobs. But I can try grinding some this weekend and let you know. Right now the falcons damage stands at less than 100 if I ctrl+click. It does normal damage if I use the skill.
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#22 Clogon

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:19 AM

Thank you Heim for replying!

For my notes.

Falcon not giving damage
Yggdrasil I assume your job levels are higher, is the damage still nill?

Trap damage can be reflected back onto the hunter/ranger with standard reflect things.

Further testing shows that ONLY BOWS don't get any over refine random bonus that varies even if you have power maximization or Crit, example[/url][/b].

Warg Bite says it has a 10 second duration + increase from Tooth but actually has 20s + increase.


1) I am pretty sure it is intended however it is undesirable. Even at job level 21~30, it will only do 3 hits which is about 500~600 damage.

2) It can be reflected by Shield Reflect too.

3) I do not have a Gunslinger but I am pretty sure they suffer the same bug.

4) Well I don't think you will need to fix this one as kRO's new balance patch will nerf the duration to 10 seconds + increase from Tooth.


@Talvis:
Look at the screens and see.

Edit:
Sry fixed the URL here is the screen:

Posted Image

Edited by Clogon, 05 November 2010 - 04:40 AM.

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#23 Doddler

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:28 AM

Are you serious about the thing where over-upgraded bows don't have a bonus? D:<


Yes. If you have power maximize, you can see that there is no over-refine random damage that is added to all two handed weapons. :P
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#24 Clogon

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:32 AM

you can see that there is no over-refine random damage that is added to all two handed weapons. :P


This is not true. As stated in my post only bows don't get this bonus (Edit:And possible Guns). Gigahurts helped me test this using 2h swords, spears and axes and they got the bonus. but bows didn't. =/

Edit:
I think these are important points that are raised.
http://forums.irowik...4536#post964536

I replied in Bold gonna Copy n Paste this in WP forums.


Wind Walker is a party buff skill. And it's only underpowered because of Party Agi up. But it's still useful enough to use, IMO.


But it still has a HUGE casting time which is why I am only asking for the removal of the fixed casting.



Increasing the AoE (and decreasing the delay) makes it useful for status effecting.

I think it is worth comparing it to Severe rainstorm, and I agree it should be better DPS than SR. However, comparing it to cart cannon is a bit strange. Unless (for eg) you also think Falcon Assault should be better than Acid Bomb or something.
If cart cannon is too good maybe that's a good argument for cart cannon to be nerfed, but it's not a good argument for arrow storm to be buffed.

PS: Making it (200+50*s.lvl)*b.lvl would mean that at Base level 100 it did 7000% dmg. :)

I disagree with you on these points.

We already have traps to deal better AoE damage/DPS than SR.

Status effects aren't so good in RE (getting 100 of a stat isn't hard) and SR does 10 hits per cast in the AoE which means it does better statusing.

And I am comparing it with ALL ranged AoE skills from melee classes including DBreath and Crazy Weed. Even Ride in Lightning is stronger abate overshadowed by Sura's other skills.

Also I just forgot the /100 in the formula which is not a suggestion but is the actual formula in the new patch.



/sob /sob
Double attack is also better than Raging Trifecta blow, and Duple Light, etc etc...
There are a lot of first class skills which are better than 2nd or third class skills *from a different class*. For example, DS is better than Triangle Shot. That sort of situation can be sensible, and is about class balancing. GX and SC skills were all balanced bearing in mind that they had access to Double Attack.
Now, if Rogue Classes got Owl's Eye, Elven bow, Improve Concentration, Falcon eyes, auto warg blitz etc etc etc etc, then maybe your comparison would be more relevant. Also note that Rogue classes have to spend 2nd job points (which are very restrictive on an SC!) if they want Vulture's Eye. And they require a headgear or weapon slot to use Double Attack with bows. *And* that Auto Shadow spell doesn't work with bows, so almost no SCs will be bow ctrl+click anyway.

I do think fear breeze should be buffed (and reproducible :P), because it is underpowered compared to other ranger skills, and it's not that worth getting even for an aspd ranger.
But there's no reason it needs to be better than double attack just because double attack is a first class skill. That is an erroneous argument.

Duple light IS better than Double attack. <.< It has a 25% chance to autocast a 200% atk skill and a 25% chance to autocast a 400% matk skill. This means that it stacks PERFECTLY with Crit and Double attack while still giving +50% atk and +100% matk DPS!

RTB is also better than Double attack for the sole reason that it allows Monks to use their combo skills.

Also unlike Fear Breeze, they don't cost 17 Skill points or extra zeny and weight! FBreeze also has a 2s FIXED casting time. And is much more unreliable due its variation. <.<

Each one of those add something more useful than just at least 20% more DPS, Giant Growth adds 30 str, RTB allows the use of Combo skills, and Duple light is auto cast so it is a separate hit (more statusing/gear effect activation). FBreeze, though, does NOTHING BUT add a negligible DPS at the cost of EXTRA arrows!

None of my suggestions actually make FBreeze better than DA but only better compared to its cost. 1 of them even tries to make it different than any of those by making them actual separate attacks.



What's wrong with Wargs not being cliffable? I know it reduces the utility, but they're still fine anyway. And it's not like from 'realism' viewpoint they should be cliffable, unlike falcon skills. *Especially* if they buff the falcon skills, and allow you to call your falcon with a flute like you suggested, then they really shouldn't make Warg skills cliffable IMO.

The biggest problem with Warg not being cliffable is its use in WoE where cliffing plays a major role. However if they do allow us to switch between pets then this point is unnecessary.


Edited by Clogon, 05 November 2010 - 03:45 PM.

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#25 ValeriusM

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 03:44 AM

I support all of Clogon's reasoning about which skills are flawed and why!

Additionally, these:

- Ranger falcon should use the sprite of sniper falcon instead of hunter falcon, if
ranger was made from sniper instead of hunter.

- Auto Blitz Beat on Ranger should ignore ranger job level. Number of hits should be based on Blitz Beat skill level alone.

Edited by ValeriusM, 09 November 2010 - 12:33 PM.

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