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#51 MrMajestic

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:37 AM

the fact that you don't try to prove me wrong suggests that you know i'm right.

^oh look, i just made a baseless assumption too. except mine is way closer to the truth than any of yours. http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/happy.gif

srsly though, of course you'd look past the truth. someone so absorbed in their self-perceived perfection tends to do this. the truth, however, is that i disagree with you on nearly every point you raise except for the aforementioned last paragraph in my previous post.

and why would i agree with MrMajestic, that person never knows what he's talking about.


Pretty much what i was saying but no one listens to me. wow.. well any case i agree. where did he contradict what i was saying. ive not been agreeing with this guy at all, but here everything looks pretty much accurate. except for the part where he says i never know what im talking about.


Jaye (""Would you be happy with mechanic if one of your new support skills gave all guillotine crosses 3x damage to cross impact? Would you be happy walking around as a pure support slave for that purpose on a character that began as offensive?

You're being foolish. It's painfully obvious wanderer is poorly designed right now. You're just talking out your ass.

Gloomy Shyness is broken and needs to go. Rune Knights do not need this buff. And its a piss-poor use of a human player in a team-play game to walk around and slave one skill in place of actively fighting on your own or fully supporting on your own. "") Jaye

Yes, YES I would. I would then consider there and my DPS to be a shared source of DPS. I would love to have a buff that makes people beast. then I would be necessary in WoE. ("it's a piss poor use of a human player in a team play game to walk around and slave,"" Jaye) yeah. your right. but what's effective is effective. its just that you complain about it.

Are you complaining about Wanderer in WoE or PVM or both? i know your mad about being good in bio labs pre renewal, and now you cant do anything near as effective. i'll vouch for that. but, how can you complain about WoE. sader sac bomber pre renewal and run around with BC isn't anything similar to what your doing post renewal?

I could care less what we PVM. I want to be useful in WoE. your characters usefulness in woe will always out wiegh ours till something is changed. even if you have gloomy at a low base level and were 20 -30 levels ahead of you.

You do say gloomy is broken and needs to go, in which case in WoE you'll be about as bad of a character as mechanic. is the reason why you want that skill to go, to finally win an argument in here?
This post has been edited by MrMajestic: A minute ago

Edited by MrMajestic, 02 January 2011 - 10:40 AM.

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#52 AhinaReyoh

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 09:19 PM

Mmyes, keep the weak characters at each others' throats while the meta characters maintain the status quo.
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#53 Jaye

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:25 AM

Wanderer is so bad especially considering maestro is like 2x better in WoE and they're supposed to be the same dam job.

Harmonize, Strings, Berserk Guitar? Their WoE role is so much more expanded than wanderer's and wanderer isn't any better than maestro at a damn thing. Its really flucked up.
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#54 Frappuccino

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:39 AM

so get a sex change?
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#55 Myzery

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 07:53 AM

It wouldn't be so bad if the little utility they had (Dazzler) was taken away when everyone could suddenly achieve stun immunity.
It should still have a 5% chance at 150 to stun anyone for full duration - gaining 1% chance for every 10 lvls above 100 so that people wouldn't just make dazzler slaves.

Wishful thinking, but I believe that it would be fair.
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#56 Akin

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:35 AM

It wouldn't be so bad if the little utility they had (Dazzler) was taken away when everyone could suddenly achieve stun immunity.
It should still have a 5% chance at 150 to stun anyone for full duration - gaining 1% chance for every 10 lvls above 100 so that people wouldn't just make dazzler slaves.

Wishful thinking, but I believe that it would be fair.


While I agree that they need to change status resistance, I hope they don't do it the way you suggest. They really need to remove the affect of base level on status resistance, or at the very most, reduce status duration by (level/100)% for third class characters.

What I'd love to see is status immunity bumped up to base 120 instead of 100.

But that's all off topic. As far as Wanderers are concerned, they could use some help from the dev team. Especially since Dazzler did get shafted. But, I think if they fix a lot of the Chorus skills and performers can realize their potential, that might be a moot point.
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#57 Jaye

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:13 AM

Originally the chance was 50%, and on classes that couldn't afford to get VIT (the only ones really affected by dazzler pre-renewal) the chance would be like 15%-25% (for 50-70 VIT), so 5% would be pretty awful for a skill you're trying to make useful again.

Dev team really needs to tweak wanderer. Its beyond unfair how badly shafted the female half of this class is.
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#58 Trixdee

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 07:54 AM

I agree. I switched mains to my Warlock cause there is absolutely nothing fun about this char post Renew. Nothing! :-(

Edited by Trixdee, 10 January 2011 - 02:48 PM.

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#59 Chille84

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 01:29 AM

I get the feeling they just left the archer classes. Most of our Wanderer skills doesn't work at all and with the bow bug my Wanderer is boring to play. Please hurry up and bug fix this class so it will be fun to play it again...
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#60 Pokeyoaks

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 01:39 AM

Pretty much what i was saying but no one listens to me. wow.. well any case i agree. where did he contradict what i was saying. ive not been agreeing with this guy at all, but here everything looks pretty much accurate. except for the part where he says i never know what im talking about.


Jaye (""Would you be happy with mechanic if one of your new support skills gave all guillotine crosses 3x damage to cross impact? Would you be happy walking around as a pure support slave for that purpose on a character that began as offensive?

You're being foolish. It's painfully obvious wanderer is poorly designed right now. You're just talking out your ass.

Gloomy Shyness is broken and needs to go. Rune Knights do not need this buff. And its a piss-poor use of a human player in a team-play game to walk around and slave one skill in place of actively fighting on your own or fully supporting on your own. "") Jaye

Yes, YES I would. I would then consider there and my DPS to be a shared source of DPS. I would love to have a buff that makes people beast. then I would be necessary in WoE. ("it's a piss poor use of a human player in a team play game to walk around and slave,"" Jaye) yeah. your right. but what's effective is effective. its just that you complain about it.

Are you complaining about Wanderer in WoE or PVM or both? i know your mad about being good in bio labs pre renewal, and now you cant do anything near as effective. i'll vouch for that. but, how can you complain about WoE. sader sac bomber pre renewal and run around with BC isn't anything similar to what your doing post renewal?

I could care less what we PVM. I want to be useful in WoE. your characters usefulness in woe will always out wiegh ours till something is changed. even if you have gloomy at a low base level and were 20 -30 levels ahead of you.

You do say gloomy is broken and needs to go, in which case in WoE you'll be about as bad of a character as mechanic. is the reason why you want that skill to go, to finally win an argument in here?
This post has been edited by MrMajestic: A minute ago


The class, Wanderer, needs to be fixed, ASAP. 'nuff said. <3 Don't argue with a troll.
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#61 Rory

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 06:40 AM

I agree, this class totally needs to be fixed. I think Gloomy should at least work on skills like Arrow Vulcan and or Reverberation to make them worthwhile to use. Even though its a self
buff I don't think it would make either of them overpowered. Now when I'm in parties all I get are incessant petitions for gloomy from Knights/Guards. Not exactly what I was looking forward to. As far as the dances go, I think at least moonlight and swing should stack with each other.
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#62 Myzery

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 04:46 PM

Originally the chance was 50%, and on classes that couldn't afford to get VIT (the only ones really affected by dazzler pre-renewal) the chance would be like 15%-25% (for 50-70 VIT), so 5% would be pretty awful for a skill you're trying to make useful again.

Dev team really needs to tweak wanderer. Its beyond unfair how badly shafted the female half of this class is.


I agree that the class is in bad shape, but a 5% chance that ignores stat immunity with a full duration stun would be pretty damn good imo.
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#63 Akin

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:46 PM

I agree that the class is in bad shape, but a 5% chance that ignores stat immunity with a full duration stun would be pretty damn good imo.


That would actually be a great fix as far as I'm concerned. There's no reason the skill should have been made completely obsolete. Doing this for Dazzler and Frost Joke puts value back in Orc Hero and Marc cards. It should be the same for SG imo.
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#64 Trixdee

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:28 PM

How to fix Wanderer

  • Make Severe Rainstorm able to function with whip/instrument it's freaking annoying having to be like oh I wanna play a song *switch* Oh! I want to SR! *switch*
  • Make AV with Tierra whip do respectable damage again
  • Let Deep Sleep Lullaby be useable in PvM so you're not stuck with a skill you can't use anywhere but WoE/PvP
  • Let Gloomy Shyness work for more skills. The just for RK/RG sucks.

Edited by Trixdee, 19 May 2011 - 07:47 PM.

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#65 Akin

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 07:51 AM

How to fix Wanderer

  • Make Severe Rainstorm able to function with whip/instrument it's freaking annoying having to be like oh I wanna play a song *switch* Oh! I want to SR! *switch*
  • Make AV with Tierra whip do respectable damage again
  • Let Deep Sleep Lullaby be useable in PvM so you're not stuck with a skill you can't use anywhere but WoE/PvP
  • Let Gloomy Shyness work for more skills. The just for RK/RG sucks.

Check the recent patches from kRO on iroWiki (this in particular), Deep Sleep is getting a change and is coming back to PvM, and Gloomy is turned into an almost full on debuff rather than a buff. There are also more changes here.

Who's to say how long it takes before we get these changes on iRO...
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#66 Jaye

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:44 AM

I don't think kRO's changes make wanderer any more desirable to play. DSL gets weaker in WoE (harder to effect enemies safely, easier to remove the status) and gets re-enabled in PVM. That's probably for the best. Gloomy gets nerfed enough so that spiral isn't a 1HKO in WoE and isn't a viable MVP skill, but the debuff aspect doesn't seem that great. For a maestro they can finally lower enemy walk speed, but wanderer already had slow grace. At least you can demount a dragon now. These feel like horizontal movements not buffs. This class needs heavy buffage. it needs buffs just to be on par with Maestro, and then performers in general need tweaks so they are more desirable to play since they are a big minority in the playing field atm.

Edited by Jaye, 20 May 2011 - 08:45 AM.

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#67 Lucentos

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 09:27 AM

Performer`s buffs needed to have more impact on overall battle performance in PvM, MvP, PvP and WoE. Both +Atk and +MAtk skills should buff damaging power by *1,x times rather than current +% to end of damage. And +Def and MDef skills should be on par with High Priest`s Assumptio. It will be interesting if Circle of Nature and Song of Mana were affect incoming recovery of HP/SP and therefore useful in PvP/WoE.
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#68 Trixdee

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:54 AM

It's no surprise that someone would choose another class over a poorly thought out mostly slave alt oriented one. Gloomy shyness has to be the most poorly thought up, just plain retarded skill they could have come up with for this class. Fun if you want a char people think "Wow..she actually MAINS that PoS?" :wink:

Edited by Trixdee, 26 May 2011 - 12:25 PM.

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#69 Akin

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:08 AM

At least with the latest kRO change it becomes a full debuff skill instead of a skill to make a slave for.

Here's hoping that those changes to the Chorus skills are worthwhile.
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#70 Jaye

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 05:53 AM

God Wanderer is pathetic!!

Posted Image Posted Image
(average damages pictured)

I was trying out Metallic sound on porings today with various gear and what I was finding is I could average 4350~5300 on poring with metallic sound and 9980k~11150 with AV (silver arrow, not elemental weakness). What is this nonsense? 3rd job skill doing half of the trans skill with 2.5x the SP cost and 1.5x longer cooldown? aSADdfd

Seriously. Even with the upcoming Rose Whip from the 13.3 update we're about to get, you're looking at 130*1150% = 1495 extra damage. Oh baby! 6k damage Metallic Sound with a 5 second delay and 80 SP cost when I could do a 15k arrow vulcan with the right arrow with 3 sec delay and 30 sp cost. What the hell.

If we Deep sleep the enemy (which we can't atm) we can do 2.25x damage (as opposed to AV doing 1.5x) so you're looking at 6k*2.25 = 13.5k vs AV doing 22.5k. Granted my Wonderswan is only 120, so I could potentially deal ~25% more with Metallic by 150, this is still bad (13.5*1.25=16.875). So even at 150 with Deep Sleep advantage, this skill does less than AV. A 3rd job skill. Weaker than one of the weakest trans skills in the game (LOL).

Posted Image
Posted Image

This skill's base damage needs to be doubled or more. Then maybe with 2 sound amplifiers, doing ~30k damage with a rose whip at 150 it might be useful for something, especially in WoE if you DSL someone and deal a base of about 67.6k. At the very least it'd be worth using over AV in PVM cause it'd actually do more damage. And in WoE you'd do 67.5/2/2 (quick woe and demi resist calc) = ~16.875k damage on someone, which is 1687 SP siphoned which is pretty handy in WoE.

Peak damage of skill would be DSL + Lex Aeterna = ~33.75k in WoE (reduced by mdef) it MIGHT kill a warlock. ;P


Heimdallr please propose doubled base damage for Metallic Sound to kRO.

Alternate Proposal: Have it do (MATK * (600%+(55*Voice Lessons)%)) + (ATK * 200%+Arrow_Vulcan_Lv*100%), so that it does 1150% MATK + 1200% ATK, half AV half magic :rolleyes:!

Edited by Jaye, 04 July 2011 - 07:53 AM.

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#71 Marloe

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:32 PM

Wrote a quick excel page to show how Metallic can be manipulated up and down. Long story short - Metallic's getting buffed, and people with Moonlit Serenade should USE Moonlit on a skill that is 100% based on mATK - though I am banking they FIX moonlit (so that it works off of its original position in calculation rather than adding "mastery" matk.)

Metallic Calc

Suggesting that Melody of Sink gets changed to -vit (instead of -maxhp) and Deep Sleep Lullaby gets changed to have reduced or nullified Friendly Fire chances. Gypsies were some of the strongest mass disablers pre-RE, I'd like to see them regain that role.
Would also like to see Swing Dance changed to give the hax stacking movespeed rather than hax aspd (although the aspd will help their offense role too)

Linkers getting access to a 3rd job will also help the wanderer, as it is much harder to get link consistently these days.

Edited by Marloe, 12 July 2011 - 07:23 PM.

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#72 Jaye

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:03 AM

If Wanderer were to be a fully support class instead of the ranged dps/support hybrid they actually are, the solo songs need to be majorly buffed.

For example, Swing Dance needs to give near the same move speed as AGI up (maybe like 20% versus AGI Up's 25%, and they can't stack), and the aspd buff needs to be slightly better than 16 AGI from a Bishop's AoE AGI Up. And this skill must do so at no later than job 30-- else there is no point in trying to party a wanderer as your move speed/aspd support in place of a bishop.

That's just 1 example.

The most important thing a bishop actually does when partied is keep people alive. To be a 'full support' character and be able to replace a priest in party, some sort of reliable HP recovery or defense needs to exist. If circling of nature recovered more like 500 HP every 5 seconds, and Wanderers had Sura's Revitalize instead of Sura, then we'd see parties where you take low damage and naturally heal that off while walking. It'd be as useful as a priest but different. Not as good for mobbing, obviously.

Wanderer is a mile away from priest in terms of support and yet you want them to have no offense. It really leaves me head scratching, as every other 2-2 that gave up some offense for support abilities (crusader, sage, alchemist) can actually kill solo in PVM, MVP, and kill people in PVP/WoE in the 3rd class bracket-- not sure why wanderer is the exception in your infinite wisdom.

This class would need more work to become par with a priest at support than it would be to balance it as the hybrid it currently is. A lot more work. And we don't need 2 full support classes. Bottom line is choruses/solo songs only need small buffs to be useful, and the skills like reverberation, great echo, and metallic sound need to be appropriately buffed.

Edited by Jaye, 13 July 2011 - 06:10 AM.

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#73 Marloe

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 08:44 AM

The rampant hybridization RE brought with 3rd classes is one of the biggest reasons the game isn't that fun to play anymore. Every class being roughly able to do the same things as every other class (with different visual effects) is a different genre of game - one that was better balanced, implemented, and done-to-perfection by diablo 2. RO kept a lot of people playing pre-renewal because it had competitive ROLE-BASED gameplay. Blurring the definition between those roles has really lowered RO's distinction (which is it's major attraction over other MMOs).

You and I have made our positions on this subject very clear. I wonder if the rest of the wanderer/performer population would prefer Reverb/Metallic/Echo over getting our solos rebalanced to a true "full support."
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#74 asayuu

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:30 AM

You and I have made our positions on this subject very clear. I wonder if the rest of the wanderer/performer population would prefer Reverb/Metallic/Echo over getting our solos rebalanced to a true "full support."


*is forbidden to post because agrees about being a support*

I prefer a rollback. All the buffs should go back to what they were originally [Read doddlercon wiki (http://ro.doddlercon...erer_/_Minstrel ) for additional info ]... Maybe except Moonlight and Windmill, that [are supposed to] give 30% instead of 50%

For example, Swing Dance needs to give near the same move speed as AGI up (maybe like 20% versus AGI Up's 25%, and they can't stack), and the aspd buff needs to be slightly better than 16 AGI from a Bishop's AoE AGI Up. And this skill must do so at no later than job 30-- else there is no point in trying to party a wanderer as your move speed/aspd support in place of a bishop.


It was 20% move speed. Also 20% attack speed. I don't know who was the crazy who requested a nerf on it to KRO.
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#75 Jaye

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

The rampant hybridization RE brought with 3rd classes is one of the biggest reasons the game isn't that fun to play anymore. Every class being roughly able to do the same things as every other class (with different visual effects) is a different genre of game - one that was better balanced, implemented, and done-to-perfection by diablo 2. RO kept a lot of people playing pre-renewal because it had competitive ROLE-BASED gameplay. Blurring the definition between those roles has really lowered RO's distinction (which is it's major attraction over other MMOs).

You and I have made our positions on this subject very clear. I wonder if the rest of the wanderer/performer population would prefer Reverb/Metallic/Echo over getting our solos rebalanced to a true "full support."


MMORPGs have some clear classifications of roles;

  • Tank
  • Melee DPS
  • Magic DPS
  • Ranged DPS
  • Support/buff

GENERALLY, in most MMORPGS, crippling statuses are done by melee DPS rather than high damage. The high damage comes from the magic and ranged DPS classes, who need melee DPS classes and Tanks in front of them protecting them. Supporters keep everyone alive and buffed.

I really don't see a problem with hybrids as long as they still have only 2 roles.

Oldschool RO:
  • Knight: Tank/Melee DPS
  • Crusader: Tank
  • Assassin: Melee DPS
  • Rogue: Melee DPS
  • Priest: Healer/Supporter
  • Hunter: Ranged DPS
  • Wizard: Magic DPS
  • Performer: Ranged DPS/Supporter
  • Sage: Magic DPS/Supporter
  • Monk: Melee DPS

Now we have extreme bastardized hybrids that should not exist:
  • Sura: Ranged DPS/Melee DPS/Supporter/Tank
  • Royal Guard: Melee DPS/Ranged DPS/Supporter/Tank

You are essentially deciding (in your personal heart of hearts) that Performer should have half of a single role (just buff half of the Healer/Supporter role). How you think having half of one role is not weak is beyond me. The buffs would have to be astronomical to make up for not having either ranged dps or competent healing.
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