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#51 Hrishi

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:40 AM

And that you actually want to die after you SD, so you can go back and get your Mado, whereas as a good Sura will make sure they're doing enough damage to kill but not enough to be killed.


And after you die and get your Mado, you need to wait around for 5 minutes before you can SD again. I don't recall gfist having such a limitation. Gfist can be used after 10 seconds of no SP. So no, the two skills are not comparable. As for hide, it's perfectly possible to hide the skill, considering it has a 0.5 second fixed and 1 second variable cast time.
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#52 GuardianTK

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:56 PM

It was precisely just as bad as it is now.

Magnum break's bonus damage was a boost at the end of the damage modifier, making it benefit mainly for auto-attacks. Using it to boost skill damage is pure crap.

Magnum break and bash are supposed to be rival skills. Bash for dps, magnum break to mob; they were quite even. The cast delay change made it quite one sided.

What you exhibited pre-balance was a "skill delay" and not a "global cast delay." I was always able to combo in other skills immediately after using Magnum Break pre-balance patches, while having a delay only on the Magnum Break. The global cast delay we have now practically makes you sit there not being able to use any other skill for a couple of seconds as a result of this new global cast delay. I played an RK up to the balance patch. I can tell the difference between a skill delay and a global cast delay. Trust me, it was not "as bad as it is now."
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#53 Ralis

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 06:37 PM

And after you die and get your Mado, you need to wait around for 5 minutes before you can SD again. I don't recall gfist having such a limitation. Gfist can be used after 10 seconds of no SP. So no, the two skills are not comparable. As for hide, it's perfectly possible to hide the skill, considering it has a 0.5 second fixed and 1 second variable cast time.


And with some Dex and Secrament, that makes the cast time... .5 seconds. Not enough time to change to a Hide accessory and use it.

I'm not saying they're the same skill, I said they were comparable. Though actually, you're right, they're not comparable, because SD is actually way, way better. At least with GFist you have a chance to kill the Sura during the cooldown on SP since they can't do diddly squat right after they kill one person (or squander the SP since you actually have time to hide their GFist).

Meanwhile, a Mechanic comes up and kills half your guild in the blink of an eye. Let's not forget that not only do they have their own form of Snap, but they can also have immunity to physical attacks. Oh, and there's the fact that Suicidal also ignores reductions.

Not to mention you can have the skill maxed with six skill points. I had to spend thirty-three of mine to get my strongest skill, which also has a five minute cooldown, among quite a few other downsides now.

Edited by Ralis, 31 December 2011 - 06:37 PM.

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#54 Hrishi

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

And that's where you are wrong. It's perfectly possible to hide a 0.5 second cast time. People used to do it all the time to gfist in pre-renewal. Whether it is a better skill or not is a matter of opinion. I would say SD is not better because you can only use it once every 5 minutes while gfist can be used every 10 seconds. As for how many skill points it takes, who cares? Many classes have their strongest skills maxed instantly while some take their entire skill tree to unlock.

Comparing the two skills is no point anyway. The skill SD got buffed some and nerfed some. You want to roll back the buff and keep the nerf. That's kind of ridiculous. If you are not aware, it got buffed in terms of damage and cast time, and nerfed in terms of having a 5 minute cooldown.
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#55 JBREEZY369

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:24 AM

[Ranger]

This is just for all skills ranger. All ranger skills need to have their fixed cast times removed.[Pre Patch] The hunter/sniper class has always been about dealing low to moderate damage at a range, whether it was with your bow, your falcon, or your traps the sniper class was never meant to have one shot power, they used their extremely high dex and agi to deal this moderatly low damage at a very fast pace while maintaining their range advantage to kill their enemies. The only thing slowing them down would be the skill delays which would either be overcame by aspd or by strings. Meaning the sniper would be positioned near the back of the party trapping to slow down the enemy, or staying in strings spamming their skills to do support damage or to spread status.

[Post] Now the ranger has changed. With the most recent patch our damage on most skills were increased while nerfing some of our trap damage putting focus more on our warg and arrow skills. Which i do agree with, however it seems as tho the ranger skills are leaned more towards one shotting then dps. This is fine, but the ranger class is not designed to do this. Whether it was designed or not, bow damage has never been high enough to make the ranger class a "one hit KO" class. So even with our skills buffed in damage, it still isn't enough to take down anyone wearing a cranial especially in a woe environment. So to counter this a ranger needs to be able to move quickly and keep the range advantage, to do this rangers need to cast their skills fast and in rapid succession to stay effective in pvp or woe. Therefore, the fixed cast times should be removed and have all ranger skills including wind walker, Focused arrow strike, arrow storm, aimed bolt, fear breeze, and anything else i may be leaving out. I would also like to see the global skill delay removed, this way in a woe environment a ranger in strings can be a very viable asset to the guild. Being able to spam a skill like warg bite immobilizing many members of the other guild (making up for the lack of status ailments we used to arrow shower/FAS on other guilds), then following it up with some aimed bolts or arrow storms in rapid succession to bring the ranger back to the old dps style, providing support damage while annoying the hell out of the enemy team.

To sum this up, i would like to see ranger's skills to drop their fixed casting time and global skill delay even at the cost of increasing normal skill delay (the one that is removed by strings). This allows the ranger to versitile and useful in woe situations, and not be completely defenseless in a 1v1 situation. Sorry for the long post but i feel by explaining my reasoning in detail is a better way of getting my point across then just saying, THIS SUCKS CHANGE TO THIS NOW PLZZ!!

If you made it this far thanks for reading and let me know what you think lol
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#56 Ralis

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 11:50 AM

That's like putting a brick on a scale and trying to balance it with a feather. A five minute cooldown is a small price to pay for an increase in damage and a nearly instant cast time.

Possible, perhaps, probable, not at all. You'd need to Hide before they even got to you, as the delay to Hide means that if they get it off as you're Hiding it fails and you die. Also, very probable for an entire guild to hide all at once.

GFist kills one person at a time. I've seen SD take out 20+ people. One GFist every, let's say, fifteen seconds (Since you need to use SP items, Zen and Fury again... Or Rising Dragon, if that cooldown is over) to kill those same 20 people is... Oh look, five minutes.

The skill was fine as it was before this balancing patch. I don't know why it got changed.
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#57 Viri

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 12:48 PM

Make it not ignore reduction too =P
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#58 pikachiquita5

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:36 AM

Class: Sorcerer
Skill: Earth Grave

Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the casting times for this skill exactly....however, it takes a long time to cast this skill now. I always enjoyed it as my "quick poke" skill to finish off any monsters, but now it's the "damn, this takes too long" poke.

I liked how it was pre-patch, since Diamond Dust used to be the slowest to cast, with Varetyr Spear being a bit faster, and Earth Grave the fastest. I'm unhappy with how much longer the cast time is now on EG---did they add more fixed cast time to it? I don't think EG was OP before, so I'm unsure why they crippled the skill.
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#59 Helen07

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 05:44 AM

Everything is all balanced. People just want to make their favorite Job powerful but I agree in Judex damage buff though... making it at least to 500% MATK at level 5 instead of 400% (still low see?). Aside from that every skill is ok and balanced except for the stronger monsters now.
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#60 Jaye

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 04:27 AM

Class: Sorcerer
Skill: Earth Grave

Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the casting times for this skill exactly....however, it takes a long time to cast this skill now. I always enjoyed it as my "quick poke" skill to finish off any monsters, but now it's the "damn, this takes too long" poke.

I liked how it was pre-patch, since Diamond Dust used to be the slowest to cast, with Varetyr Spear being a bit faster, and Earth Grave the fastest. I'm unhappy with how much longer the cast time is now on EG---did they add more fixed cast time to it? I don't think EG was OP before, so I'm unsure why they crippled the skill.

Use diamond dust, its faster, they basically just switched places.

If had my way Varetyr spear would be fast cast, diamond dust and earth grave would be about as slow as earth grave is right now. Diamond Dust and Earth grave are good in pvop/woe-- they need to be slow enough for other players to react. Varetyr spear should be the quick poke move, it has the smallest AoE and lowest damage.
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#61 Aeroku

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:10 AM

if you're gonna keep the super quick cast time of SD, at least make sura's gfist a time cooldown instead of a sp regen. i'm not joking, even if SD is still hide-able, it's AoE, you don't need to target it, it has great range. I wish gfist was like that, i wouldn't even mind 5 min cooldown on it that way. or at least, make it so that mechanic *can't restore sp* for 5 minute after using SD. fair's fair. right now i could just main a sura in woe and dual client a mechanic for SD every 5 minute that it becomes a bit of a joke.

mostly the point here, everything can be said and done. but there are other thing to consider. you can hide gfist, you can hide SD, you can hide this, that, do this and that all simultaneously, but face it. not everyone's perfect. we're human, not robots that can handle something that quick. right now its like, "oh look at that big precast, can't get past it. brb, dual clienting SD, boom, wipe the precast in 1 sec". as a 1 man power, it's too fast.

Edited by Aeroku, 03 January 2012 - 09:13 AM.

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#62 Viri

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 02:49 PM

That's actually a brilliant idea, time to make an alt mechanic omg
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#63 geniewinie

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:05 AM

[ranger]

All are suggestions to balance the character compared to other classes

Arrow Storm, 0.5sec cast time/ 0.5sec after delay - can't be interrupted. make em fixed

Aim-bolt, 3sec cast time/ 3sec after delay, let it able to multi hit even if the target isn't immobilized. ~ let it be interruptible. cast times are variable, dex can decrease the cast time if you please

Wargbite, 0sec cast, .5 cool down. --> lvl1 3sec immobilize, lvl2 6sec immobilize, lvl3 8sec immobilize, lvl4 10sec immobilize, lvl5 15sec immobilize target. and disables the use of backslide and snap. ~ if followed by aimbolt or AS, damage is 2x but forced neutral. variable casts.

Wargstrike, change the type from range to melee atk. Wolfs aren't arrows, the atk in a melee fashion.

camouflage, can't be disabled by atking normally & all usage of ranger skills (only ranger skills) I think it is suppose to be this way as promised before. don't break promises.

[as for other classes]

Currently 2012,

Pneuma is taking hits morethan it is intended, plx fix this.

Sura is great, so does RG, and RK.

GX --> disable the stacking of edp and that crossreaper thing, it's way too OP than gfist already. but if im gona die id go gfist, coz that crossreaper is reusable & it's jst a cheap shot.

WL ---> fix the Comet name thing, and that tetra vortex having, almost instant cast. PUT AN F*ing FIXED CAST TIME ON THOSE! they are like aoe & elemental Gfist killing massive number of players. precast is already hard to passed by. However, don't change the damage just put cast time like 3-4sec. after delay 2sec

Sorc ---> ditto^ put fixed cast time, so there wont be any intant casts for OHKO skill that can be recasted again. for dust diamond and psychic wave. at least 2-3sec cast/ 2sec cool down.

Edited by geniewinie, 04 January 2012 - 09:09 AM.

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#64 Jaye

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:37 AM

Yes lets buff several good skills that are fine the way they are because someone is a ranger fan. I have a ranger and there is nothing wrong with arrow storm, camouflage, etc. If anything, warg bite is too good atm. GX isn't that tough with rolling cutter/cross-ripper. If you are getting 1 shot you are bad. Same with getting 1 shot by sorcerer stuff. really? complaining about warlocks being strong? you're so against the grain there, haha.
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#65 Pril

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 01:42 PM

I can't tell if he's trolling or just an idiot.
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#66 Aeroku

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:36 PM

no to the ranger changes. some changes there ends up making ranger pretty op.

and all the other class changes that you wanted can be seen to work in favor of rangers. more no for you.

Edited by Aeroku, 04 January 2012 - 06:37 PM.

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#67 Lucentos

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:42 PM

IMHO Ranger needed a buff to Aimed Bolt, Cluster Bomb and make a Camo as more selfdefensive skill, rather than offensive power booster.
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#68 Yanzan

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:03 PM

And with some Dex and Secrament, that makes the cast time... .5 seconds. Not enough time to change to a Hide accessory and use it.

I'm not saying they're the same skill, I said they were comparable. Though actually, you're right, they're not comparable, because SD is actually way, way better. At least with GFist you have a chance to kill the Sura during the cooldown on SP since they can't do diddly squat right after they kill one person (or squander the SP since you actually have time to hide their GFist).

Meanwhile, a Mechanic comes up and kills half your guild in the blink of an eye. Let's not forget that not only do they have their own form of Snap, but they can also have immunity to physical attacks. Oh, and there's the fact that Suicidal also ignores reductions.

Not to mention you can have the skill maxed with six skill points. I had to spend thirty-three of mine to get my strongest skill, which also has a five minute cooldown, among quite a few other downsides now.



fyi Barrier only blocks, long range attacks. So just hit the robot with Magic and fist it. and there problem sovled and plus you can see Sd coming from a mile away Gfist on the other hand your not sure if there going to fist you, goh you or KA. aleast with mado you know SD coming and if the whole guild can't kill the robot in time well tough luck.
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#69 Pres

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:48 PM

[ranger]

All are suggestions to balance the character compared to other classes

Arrow Storm, 0.5sec cast time/ 0.5sec after delay - can't be interrupted. make em fixed

Aim-bolt, 3sec cast time/ 3sec after delay, let it able to multi hit even if the target isn't immobilized. ~ let it be interruptible. cast times are variable, dex can decrease the cast time if you please

Wargbite, 0sec cast, .5 cool down. --> lvl1 3sec immobilize, lvl2 6sec immobilize, lvl3 8sec immobilize, lvl4 10sec immobilize, lvl5 15sec immobilize target. and disables the use of backslide and snap. ~ if followed by aimbolt or AS, damage is 2x but forced neutral. variable casts.

Wargstrike, change the type from range to melee atk. Wolfs aren't arrows, the atk in a melee fashion.

camouflage, can't be disabled by atking normally & all usage of ranger skills (only ranger skills) I think it is suppose to be this way as promised before. don't break promises.


Actually these suggestions are pretty viable. Arrow storm's cast time is way too long and doesn't even do much damage. Aimed bolt's damage needs to be increased, but should keep it's damage from immobilization. The last three are much needed and completely reasonable. Warg bite should disable backslide and snap (which should be disabled to pvp/woe anyway) as it is our only defensive move and not to mention it has a failure rate and a large cooldown already. Also, suras snap from one pneuma to another, which is basically abusing snap even when bit. Rangers, if you actually play one, are helpless against a sura. I also agree that warg strike should be melee, because it really isn't an arrow and makes more sense as a melee attack. Camouflage doesn't help ctrl+click/ASPD rangers at all and is pretty worthless in woe imo at the moment since it's disabled by only one normal attack.

Instant-cast WLs with comet would be a problem, because many Rangers don't have damage reduction gears or can't use them because of Mora set and other stuff. We don't have much VIT as well, unless your only purpose is to AB or AS in woe then you can have 100 VIT or something. Most have less than that and it's pretty easy to get one-shotted by an instant-cast comet.
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#70 Charon

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

I still fail to see how its any better organized if theres seperate threads for casts, effects and damage... Its a bigger mess than was already given.

And we don't even know what kind of feedback is even worth posting, still.
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#71 Jaye

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 04:17 AM

Arrow storm's cast time is way too long and doesn't even do much damage. Aimed bolt's damage needs to be increased, but should keep it's damage from immobilization. The last three are much needed and completely reasonable.

LOL? I 1 shot Kasa with a fairly quick cast time on a 130 Ranger. I can't do nearly that much PVM DPS on my 150 wanderer, 150 genetic, and others? Pass me a hit of whatever you are smoking.

Also you are talking about buffing Ranger when you do better auto-attack DPS than Creza EDPing with auto-attack on me in WoE? Yeah pneuma is your weakness but so is your hitlock to me. Its like paper-rock-scissors. The buffs you are talking about would make Ranger unfair. Your DPS makes me spam whites like hell and you're talking about doing more?

Camouflage that allows control+click would be horribly unbalanced. 10-15k/sec dps without the enemy even being able to retaliate? Again, you must have some fine green herb on your lap. Only class that'd be able to defeat you would be Sura due to being able to snap near you with ruwach up.

Edited by Jaye, 10 January 2012 - 04:24 AM.

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#72 Aeroku

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:16 PM

Actually these suggestions are pretty viable. Arrow storm's cast time is way too long and doesn't even do much damage. Aimed bolt's damage needs to be increased, but should keep it's damage from immobilization. The last three are much needed and completely reasonable. Warg bite should disable backslide and snap (which should be disabled to pvp/woe anyway) as it is our only defensive move and not to mention it has a failure rate and a large cooldown already. Also, suras snap from one pneuma to another, which is basically abusing snap even when bit. Rangers, if you actually play one, are helpless against a sura. I also agree that warg strike should be melee, because it really isn't an arrow and makes more sense as a melee attack. Camouflage doesn't help ctrl+click/ASPD rangers at all and is pretty worthless in woe imo at the moment since it's disabled by only one normal attack.

Instant-cast WLs with comet would be a problem, because many Rangers don't have damage reduction gears or can't use them because of Mora set and other stuff. We don't have much VIT as well, unless your only purpose is to AB or AS in woe then you can have 100 VIT or something. Most have less than that and it's pretty easy to get one-shotted by an instant-cast comet.

no again. warg bite having large cooldown? hell that thing hurts when i've seen it spammed. snap disabled in woe? where have you been?

ranger's aren't helpless to a sura. they're helpless when you vs them 1v1 (which i've said many time), it's their specialty. warg bite being a melee? seriously? so like you can totally precast a warg bite rangers from afar and not blocked by pneuma? you're highly discouraging team work this way. if that was the case, make all goh be melee attack regardless of lvl (i mean really, it doesn't use an arrow, just basing it on your speculation)

ctrl click? gx is the class for that, you can't expect to get strong like gx, being able to ctrl click AND doing it on a ranged method.

tl;dr: no.
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#73 Helen07

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:11 AM

Skill Name: Holy Light
Job: Acolyte


Pre Patch and Post Patch:
Damage : (MATK x 125%) x (Holy light Modifier)
Cast Time : 0.4 Fixed 1.6 Variable
Skill Delay : none
Cooldown : none


Desired Formula:
Damage: (MATK x 150%) x (Holy Light Modifier)
Cast Time : 2.0 Variable
Skill Delay : none
Cooldown : none

REASON WHY:

- I am not really asking for a huge buff for holy light. I just wanted it to be 150% MATK instead of 125%. 125% MATk is too small for a 2 second cast time skill and I know many priest will like the small buff but they wouldn't use it much still because of poor damage output. Cart revolution which is also a quest skill has 150% ATK and can deal 250% ATK max in aoe so it is fair to make holy light to 150% MATK as well. Consider to make the overall cast time to variable because it is the only damage FS Priest can do and it is very unlikely to achieve instant cast anyway even maxing dex and stuff. And damage will still be low so it is still a balanced buff for Holy light even with soul link it is still low.
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#74 asayuu

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:22 AM

[Geneticist]
Skill: Cart Cannon
Cast Time: [0.5 + 0.5*skill level] (variable)
Desired: 1 (fixed) + [0.2*skill level] (variable)

Why: It is a simple way to balance godly genetics to non-godly. If archer skills [FAS, AV, and others] can't be instant cast like they were pre-renewal, there is no sense to allow a skill of a class that could never reach the instant cast DEX without god items be instant cast.

And if you see my formula, the actual cast time of the skills is 3s variable on max level. I am desiring a 1s fixed + 1s variable, that in the long end, is lower than the previous cast time, so "normal" genetics won't feel slower casts.

Same to Hell's Plant.


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#75 meoryou2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:30 AM

Mechanic:

Why is it that Genetics can have instant cast Cart cannon and do about 15-20k dmg while Arm Cannon which consumes not only cannon balls but magic fuel also

Genetic
Cart cannon has a large AoE, Can do easy 20k dmg without god items and has 0 after cast delay and also does not miss Compare this to Arm Cannon
Mechanic
Arm cannon max level 3x3, Does 15-20k Using +12 Pile bunker, Has Fixed Cast Time: (0.8 - 0.2 * Skill Level) second Variable Cast Time: (1.2 + 0.2 * Skill Level) secondshile
while having another almost 1-2 second Global delay. This skill is nearly impossible to use effectively without a Bard Class standing by.
Im not asking for arm cannon do be Stronger then cart cannon but considering it is the main attack skill of a Mado gear it should be on par with it in the least.
All im saying is that arm cannon can be easily out potted by pretty much everything in WoE only viable way to kill people is SD


OK, lets swap: you can have my genetics CC AoE progression, the need for Primary STAT - uber INT, Secondary STAT - very high STR and, Tertiary stat - 100+ DEX and my CC interrupt-able cast time.... hell since you want to be an "OP" genetic you can even have my HP mod :bow:. In turn you give me your pile bunker and shorter cast times that do NOT need a Phen, the need for really only STR to do damage and your survivability due to a lot larger HP pool.

BTW have fun getting instant cast, you only need 110 base INT and 110 base DEX + probably foods.... oh yeah and a both a god hammer and god shoes but everyone has those laying around don't they :dunno:



IMHO Ranger needed a buff to Aimed Bolt, Cluster Bomb and make a Camo as more selfdefensive skill, rather than offensive power booster.

Cluster bomb just needs to be able to be put under PvMs feet so trappers are not totally crap for leveling like they are now.

no again. warg bite having large cooldown? hell that thing hurts when i've seen it spammed. snap disabled in woe? where have you been?

ranger's aren't helpless to a sura. they're helpless when you vs them 1v1 (which i've said many time), it's their specialty. warg bite being a melee? seriously? so like you can totally precast a warg bite rangers from afar and not blocked by pneuma? you're highly discouraging team work this way. if that was the case, make all goh be melee attack regardless of lvl (i mean really, it doesn't use an arrow, just basing it on your speculation)

ctrl click? gx is the class for that, you can't expect to get strong like gx, being able to ctrl click AND doing it on a ranged method.

tl;dr: no.

You do know that warg STRIKE is completely different than warg BITE yes? Warg STRIKE does moderate damage at ASPD when cast manually and warg BITE is kind of like an ankle snare that can fail, and has a cool down on reuse no matter if it worked or not.

Besides that your "point" about GoH doesn't make sense, a little wind wall is going to blow a huge wolf away as it runs up to you and bites you when it does nothing to players that run up and slap you upside the head with a sword / mace / whatever? I mean I could see pneuma blocking the falcon, it is a light bird, but the wolf / warg is big enough to be ridden on for crying out loud, it's bigger, heavier, and stronger than the ranger who could just walk up and stab the person in pnuema. Having it Melee would *gasp* require your FS / sorc to have an extra hotkey for SW... the HORRORororor of it all :rofl:
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