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Battlegrounds longevity suggestions


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#1 Jaffer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

Essentially what I'm aiming for in this thread is ideas that will increase how long BG is active.

By nature they do not need to be implemented immediately -- there will be a guaranteed rush of players into BG when it opens. The point is after two weeks BG is no longer active and this is sad -- BG could and should be the most active PvP event in the game. Moreso than WoE (as far as hours per day invested by players). And by no means do all of them need to come into play (I would be perfectly happy with a supplier, which I personally think would have the MOST impact on the activity of BG.)

So the ideas here are a mixture of relatively simple and increasingly complex suggestions to help BG live forever, regardless of if stuff like KvM comes later. Input is encourages, questions/comments/critique. While it may fall on deaf ears, might as well try. Suggestions will be bolded and spoilered out due to the number of them.

Many will recognize this as a transformation of some popular systems from other games and other... illegit sources. It's also worth noting that with changes like this, the price of BG items should increase a decent bit. (2x-3x, because BG would hopefully be much more active)

Battlegrounds Supplier

Spoiler


Battlegrounds Gear Rentals

Spoiler


Battlegrounds Queuing (AKA "waitless BG")
Spoiler


Battlegrounds Delay Cancellation
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Battlegrounds Badge Distribution
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Battlegrounds Delay Avoidance
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Battlegrounds Happy Hour
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Battlegrounds Shop Discount
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PVP Rules Hour
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WoE Investment via Badges
Spoiler


Old Kafra Exclusive Headgears
Spoiler

Edited by Jaffer, 22 January 2013 - 07:52 AM.

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#2 TheUraharaShop

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

I'm interested in many of your concepts for improving BG. What you have to take in to account is that the community of iRO is broken up in to two, but more commonly seen as three sections:

1.) Grind/Hardcore Players: They're players who measure difficulty by the number of hours it takes to complete a task. Many find enjoyment in this feature. This is the most common type of players found in iRO at the moment.

2.) Casual Players: They represent the fan base who wishes to compete as do the hard core players, however they're looking for short and sweet. Commonly suggestions of making the game "to easy" is to target players of this type.

3.) Social Players: A common misconception was that Social Players didn't play iRO or that since the game is social in nature all players are consider social gamers; to the contrary. Social Gamers are the players who feel emerged in the world due to Quests, Game Mechanics, monsters, sprites and game direction. They're not concerned if their equipment will deal the most damage in an instance, it's weather or not it looks cute.

Counting from 1 to 3, show the most popular playing styles found in iRO, which many feel should change in one way or another; which brings us to the audience of iRO. Who will this idea cater toward? If you want to make BG more acceptable toward the Grind Type. Grind Type like the idea of Time + Luck = Reward. Set the reward cost higher than usual, add in items which are rare and strong in value and assign then to the MVP or WoE environments . With some of the suggestions focusing on World Timed Restricted Events (such as woe), cycling of product discounts or medal increase can generate more of a fan base for BG from the WoE style many players feel is the Flagship in terms of Game Content for Ragnarok.
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#3 Jaffer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

The idea is to increase the appeal primarily to WoE and Casual players, and to give PvM players a cheap segue into PvP gameplay (via bg rentals). The problem with grinders is once satiated, they leave. Get gear quit bg. Which they can still do. But by adding accessibility to the other play types, hopefully it'll keep BG alive.
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#4 Aaronnn

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

WoE consumable rewards.
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#5 SirDouglas

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

jRO’s “Link System”

http://ro.doddlercon.com/home/?p=32

"When Japan implemented episode 12.1, they did not implement the battlegrounds like other Ragnarok servers did..."
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#6 TheUraharaShop

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:12 PM

What Aaron has suggested would be a great addition to target the causal players.

To focus; most players who WoE are Grind/HardCore type players. Many wont be happy or care about the addition of the color change so many wont turn out for BG as we've seen in the past. To ensure turn out from that player type there has to either be cycled prizes or prizes that can only be used in WoE, really powerful and take large amounts of time to acquire.

To target the causal player, items that allow players to create more unique and custom experience have to be focused on. So creating unique tame able monsters, color pallets for Tamed Monsters and Players, immersive quests and "Gravity Swag" will lead the way for more casual players participate. As for the Redux of BG as described above the best way to have more casual players join is to create prizes which are low to mid in cost and mainly focus on the customization of Ragnarok Online.

Best way to work in your ideas Jaffer would be to have a rotating prize season where prizes are only available for a specific period of time forcing players to participate during the best and optimal times as you've posted above.

Edit: The Link System that Doug posted could be implement for the Grind/Hardcore player types. Where there can always be new content added to the game and be focused to reward the behavior of the those players. This creates a niche in game which can always be focused and refocused allowing the Grind/Hardcore players to be implemented while others design and developed content for the casual and social players.

Edited by TheUraharaShop, 02 January 2013 - 06:21 PM.

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#7 killthebeast

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

disable dual clienting inside the battlegrounds arena. that's one way to keep bg active. keeps the badge farmers out and lets people actually enjoy the pvp action in bg.
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#8 TheUraharaShop

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:47 AM

disable dual clienting inside the battlegrounds arena. that's one way to keep bg active. keeps the badge farmers out and lets people actually enjoy the pvp action in bg.



This concept may be met with lash back from the Grind/HardCore Players. They choose to play alone or with small groups of players to ensure high EXP turn over. With Dual Clienting it offered a way for players to manage micro transactions with out the need of others players. This turn in to players expecting and demanding content tweaked towards that. So you have players who say you need dual clienting for Warps,Buffs and Links during WoE or during PVE leveling instances and Vending while they level or WoE.

In many cases the idea of dual client has missed its original intension and should be re-directed back to the Micro Transactions. The idea of allowing only one IP or Grouped Warp Portal account only allowed access to Battle Grounds could be the step in the right direction none the less.
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#9 Jaffer

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:29 AM

I think the point is to disable dual clienting inside Tierra/Flavius/KvM maps, not while in bg. Although leeching BG badges should be a punishable offense.
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#10 TheUraharaShop

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

I think the point is to disable dual clienting inside Tierra/Flavius/KvM maps, not while in bg. Although leeching BG badges should be a punishable offense.



Well like in previous discussions of taking laps with the ban hammer, some players feel entitled to disrespect players and blatantly abuse the rules; then complain about the repercussions of their actions. If they do implement a ban policy for that, the choice should first to restrict access to that game mode on that account until a full investigation has been completed.

To focus on your post in a constructive way. If they are unable to teak dual client as you've suggested disabling auto follow feature and setting a rule to remove players who've been inactive for 30 seconds can easily make it difficult for players to farm by dual client.

Edited by TheUraharaShop, 03 January 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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#11 Jaffer

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

To focus on your post in a constructive way. If they are unable to teak dual client as you've suggested disabling auto follow feature and setting a rule to remove players who've been inactive for 30 seconds can easily make it difficult for players to farm by dual client.

A popular method I've seen if to AFK Flag characters that have been inactive for xx seconds, and allow anyone on that players team to kick them with a command like /kick "name". That way you may be able to say "brb" and quickly run and do something without getting kicked immediately.

It would also be worth it (using the Queue System) to only reward players that have been inside for at least 60 seconds.
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#12 killthebeast

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

Well like in previous discussions of taking laps with the ban hammer, some players feel entitled to disrespect players and blatantly abuse the rules; then complain about the repercussions of their actions. If they do implement a ban policy for that, the choice should first to restrict access to that game mode on that account until a full investigation has been completed.

To focus on your post in a constructive way. If they are unable to teak dual client as you've suggested disabling auto follow feature and setting a rule to remove players who've been inactive for 30 seconds can easily make it difficult for players to farm by dual client.

it wouldn't make much of a difference if they get kicked out of tierra/flav. some people's alts are just there to be space fillers, so as long as their main character is moving around then they would benefit from multi clienting. i don't really care if their lvl80 characters with no gears get bg rewards or not. my main concern here is, the actual concept of battlegrounds might die because there's no pvp action. i don't want a bg with people who farm badges for their characters (alt or main, doesn't really matter) and nothing more.
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#13 TheUraharaShop

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

it wouldn't make much of a difference if they get kicked out of tierra/flav. some people's alts are just there to be space fillers, so as long as their main character is moving around then they would benefit from multi clienting. i don't really care if their lvl80 characters with no gears get bg rewards or not. my main concern here is, the actual concept of battlegrounds might die because there's no pvp action. i don't want a bg with people who farm badges for their characters (alt or main, doesn't really matter) and nothing more.


At that point the player should be reprimanded for trying to create a place filler for the game to start. Restricting access for players who are constantly being kicked can allow for active players to take their places.

As for the concept for Battle Grounds to become more populated, the game mechanics for it will have to be redefined so that there are visible differences between War of Emperium and Battle Grounds (with KVM, Flav. and PVP). In order for a player to be "better" at this game mode then they'll have to have the corresponding stats and skills to make them as effective as possible in this game mode. With focus on content direction, implementation and oversight Battle Grounds could be the new flagship to iRO.

With some careful directed and crafted ideas and new applied use of old game mechanics implementations of new game modes can easily be put up for consideration by months end and seen for implementation by 2nd quater 2013.
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#14 Jaffer

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:39 AM

I'mma keep pressing this. BG doesn't need a huge mechanical overall. Plenty of players would be happy with the old WoE supplier for BG, just with a price (zeny sink!). With just that you assure BG will live much longer.
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#15 killthebeast

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:12 AM

I'mma keep pressing this. BG doesn't need a huge mechanical overall. Plenty of players would be happy with the old WoE supplier for BG, just with a price (zeny sink!). With just that you assure BG will live much longer.

if ever this gets implemented, i hope they will only be sold for zeny (NOT KP!)
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#16 Jaffer

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

I would suggest Zeny and KP both. While using it as a zeny sink is best, Gravity needs to make money. Adjusting the zeny cost periodically would be meaningful.
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#17 SirDouglas

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

12/28/2011 - kRO Maintenance

Mains

- Implemented Battleground Queue System.
Players can click on "Battle" button under basic info window and choose desired battleground to queue.
Players can use the Queue System from anywhere.
Players can enter the battleground, when there are enough players to start a battleground, by clicking on confirmation button.
If players leave the Queue System, they will be unable to enter the Queue System again for 1 minute.
Players will return to their original position after the end of Battleground if they were in normal field, town or dungeon maps. If players were previously in special dungeon or field maps, they will be returned to the save point.
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#18 Jaffer

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

That is different from my suggestion, though it would be useful (and a little awkward).

What that implies is they can just reserve a spot in standard BG and automatically be warped when it starts. That would be nice to have though.
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#19 Magefist

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

No kvm please. Flavious and Tierra though :D
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#20 killthebeast

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

I would suggest Zeny and KP both. While using it as a zeny sink is best, Gravity needs to make money. Adjusting the zeny cost periodically would be meaningful.

yes they need to make money, but they shouldnt be doing it that much with consumables. first off, if they adjusted the zeny cost from time to time then they would be dictating the value of kp/zeny in some way. that's not really good for people who spend $$$ for kp, unless the gms are really active in monitoring the in-game economy which i believe they don't have the time for. the bg rentals can work, maybe, so keep the pots out of this. this just reminds me of the official server i used to play on where just about everything is available in the kafra shop (whites and blues with less weight, restoration items similar to ygg berries but with 1 weight, acid bomb boxes, edp bottles, +10 food buffs which stay even after death, etc.)! it sucked because ranked pots and other consumables which can be farmed became obsolete. while this can somehow help in the fight against bots who farm, i still think it is a bad idea to make this game more pay to win that it already is. what i'd like to suggest is if they really want to make money off of bg, then they should hold major bg competitions (FREQUENTLY!) which have kp/wpe as the registration fee. though they shouldn't forget about the people who don't want to spend real money for the game by having some free events as well.

No kvm please. Flavious and Tierra though :D


i don't really see why people don't want kvm. nothing is wrong with it, only the method of acquiring kvm points is screwed up. if you think the items are so op and should just be out of the game, then here's my reply for you:

kvm equipment aren't overpowered lol. have you played on a server where +6 and above kvm weapons aren't common? plus they are not that powerful in pre-renewal as compared to renewal, so i don't see why a lot of people post "no kvm plzzzz" on suggestion threads.


Edited by killthebeast, 07 January 2013 - 09:28 PM.

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#21 Jaffer

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

Updated.

@killthebeast
This isn't really "selling" consumables, as they can only be used in 3 maps, and it's a restock value (so you can only get so many at a time).


But you do make a good point. Perhaps just putting BG Gear Rentals in the Kafra Shop would help (and put that specific Kafra NPC in BG, not Eden.)
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#22 Jaffer

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

Bumpity bump. A Cheap, long lasting PvP element that everyone can enjoy is vital to an MMOs survival.

Many games that have huge item delays don't have this issue, but RO is different with its spammyness and such. When I used to BG on Iris/Ymir, I could use 300+ Whites, 20+ Zerks, 50+ Blues per match, for very little reward after I got my BG gear. That's why BG died. High Cost and little reward (get gear, quit BG).

I would personally remain in BG, even if the only reward is possibly making a +8 BG Weapon over a +7 if the cost were low per match, but as it stands, most players won't dump the necessary zeny.
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#23 AMzobud

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:38 PM

+1 alot.

I also doubt many of the "hardcore grind players" would mind a bit less grind. This all promotes more/faster WoE comp. due new guilds.
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#24 Lucentos

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:29 AM

I`m suggesting to add overupgrade bonus for Flavius and Tierra gears.
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#25 killthebeast

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

Bumpity bump. A Cheap, long lasting PvP element that everyone can enjoy is vital to an MMOs survival.

Many games that have huge item delays don't have this issue, but RO is different with its spammyness and such. When I used to BG on Iris/Ymir, I could use 300+ Whites, 20+ Zerks, 50+ Blues per match, for very little reward after I got my BG gear. That's why BG died. High Cost and little reward (get gear, quit BG).

I would personally remain in BG, even if the only reward is possibly making a +8 BG Weapon over a +7 if the cost were low per match, but as it stands, most players won't dump the necessary zeny.


sometimes the problem is with the players themselves. bg should be a pvp environment with pvp-related items as a reward, not just some place to farm your woe gears and nothing more than that.. i'd love to tell everyone to use supplies just as they would in woe as it's almost the same thing anyway - it's pvp with rewards (well not castle rewards though). bg is actually fun, i don't know why other people would go there just for the gears. i remember participating in bg even if i had complete bg sets and 500 badges in my inventory and i did that solely for pvp. now if people had the same mindset, then bg would stay active for a long while. maybe one of the real problems is the classic community. pvp here is dead, so i doubt bg will be as active as we want it to be.
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