46 replies to this topic

[meli]

I would like to point out a few facts making this skill, a little too good. As of now, this skill ignores all reductions, it isn't interruptable by regular hits just like dragon breath is. Its cast is greatly affected by sacrament making it hard to spell break or get to disable a mechanic front sliding into you before it goes off, in a woe setting with many players around. It also has a decently wide area of effect. I reckon, the skill cooldown is 5 minutes, which hardly matters since you can simply pack on as many mechanics in a guild as you'd need to constantly switch out and repeat. I understand this is of the only decent skills left for someone to use mechanic along neutral barrier, but this doesn't make it less cheap of a skill that is a guaranteed aoe kill if you get it off, perhaps defeating the purpose of an organized fight in a way when you can simply send a single class to explode on everybody.

However I'm not asking for a consistent nerf of this skill (as I guess the GM do not have the power to do anything about it), but it should be able to have an interruptible cast by normal attacks as most skills do, I consider it fair enough of a counter for its advantages. Criticism is welcome and appreciated, thanks!

[Memoir]

Use hide.

[meli]

CC > SD

Can't hide, can't avoid.

[Riakuta]

Its a Player Combination Strategy use Hide before you get Cursed Circled or place a Safety Wall over yourself before Cursed Circled if at all possible. As a last resort try to relog if you don't want to be blown up.

Now if the Mechanic could use Cursed Circle then it would need a nerf.

Edited by Riakuta, 18 January 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[ilovemilk]

God damn your avatar got me good.

In response to your opinion about SD. Yes, it is powerful if used properly. Problem is that every time you try to cast it someone will instantly stop you in your track. Fiberlock, CC, Windmill, Sleep, Freeze, Fiberlock, Cursed, Thorn Wall, Thorn Trap, and maybe Howl. I've seen little success with Mech using SD in WOE.

[Riakuta]

God damn your avatar got me good.

In response to your opinion about SD. Yes, it is powerful if used properly. Problem is that every time you try to cast it someone will instantly stop you in your track. Fiberlock, CC, Windmill, Sleep, Freeze, Fiberlock, Cursed, Thorn Wall, Thorn Trap, and maybe Howl. I've seen little success with Mech using SD in WOE.

Well if your are a Mechanic Obviously your going to be targeted first because of Suicidal Destruction. Team work plays a massive role in the success of a Mechanic or a lucky Front Slide and Back Slide play. Speed Potions do wonders for a Mechanics Success assuming they don't get Crowd Controlled.

Edited by Riakuta, 18 January 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[meli]

You can't safety wall/hide everybody on the timespan of a snap > CC and front slide > SD combination. Pneumas or ME would be laid down commonly either way for a correct defense. If a bwing is your only chance, doesn't that make it...a bit wrong?

You can just frontslide from any ground restraining skill (it's a 7 cell snap according to the wiki) to comfortably lay wherever you're going to explode. A well geared mech won't sleep or freeze, and howl is not reliable as it used to. CC I can see it being the most effective, or white imprison if the mech doesn't use GTB. Either way, the cast is terribly fast and hard to react to, which is why i suggest at least it being interruptable.

[kiefer]

It's not that overpowered since you have to be within the enemy defense to set up the skill. Good luck setting up the skill as everyone will almost always try to kill or disable you, heck a simple bloody lust will literally stop you from using SD.

just remember this:
IT'S SUPPOSE TO KILL EVERYONE!! Its a skill used to change the tides of battle.

[Riakuta]

You can't safety wall/hide everybody on the timespan of a snap > CC and front slide > SD combination. Pneumas or ME would be laid down commonly either way for a correct defense. If a bwing is your only chance, doesn't that make it...a bit wrong?

You can just frontslide from any ground restraining skill (it's a 7 cell snap according to the wiki) to comfortably lay wherever you're going to explode. A well geared mech won't sleep or freeze, and howl is not reliable as it used to. CC I can see it being the most effective, or white imprison if the mech doesn't use GTB. Either way, the cast is terribly fast and hard to react to, which is why i suggest at least it being interruptable.

You know Suicidal Destruction is interrupt able right? Also so far I haven't seen a single Mechanic wearing Golden Thief Bug Card, but there was one funny Royal Guard wearing one .

Edited by Riakuta, 18 January 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[meli]

Not by normal hits by all means, you could spell break, masq or soul syphon by example. But not all the classes can do the trick, or the specific ones have a fast enough reaction to considering the cast is still FAST and you'd be surrounded by other players as well. My suggestion is to make the cast breakable, by regular hits as well. If you think about it most skills have an interruptable cast, why does such a powerful aoe which also ignores all reduction does not?

Everybody would try to get the mech first, but a good frontslide along the fast SD cast, works too good for a single player in my opinion. Not to mention you can send several at the same time, then most likely at least one would go off. Switch mechs in guild, and no problem, got enough to permanently keep booming.

Edit; bloody lust not an option since it can easily get rid of by crazy vines and it isn't practical to use with guildmates around.

Edited by meli, 18 January 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[Riakuta]

Not by normal hits by all means, you could spell break, masq or soul syphon by example. But not all the classes can do the trick, or the specific ones have a fast enough reaction to considering the cast is still FAST and you'd be surrounded by other players as well. My suggestion is to make the cast breakable, by regular hits as well. If you think about it most skills have an interruptable cast, why does such a powerful aoe which also ignores all reduction does not?

Everybody would try to get the mech first, but a good frontslide along the fast SD cast, works too good for a single player in my opinion. Not to mention you can send several at the same time, then most likely at least one would go off. Switch mechs in guild, and no problem, got enough to permanently keep booming.

I is breakable with regular hits I've stopped Suicidal Destruction with Psychic Wave before. You just have to hit them remember they also have Neutral Barrior which blocks ranged attacks just use Crazy Vines to remove it.

[Azyrk]

I play a mechanic in WoE often, and I can honestly say that SDing isn't as easy as it seems. The second the enemy sees you coming, everyone focuses on you. It's pretty rare that I blow up an entire guild. Usually they have me pinned down and stripped in a matter of seconds.

In disorganized fights, yeah I guess it'd be pretty easy to destroy everyone. But SD isn't all that bad actually.

Counters for SD: Kaupe, Sacrifice. ez.

[meli]

Is that so? I have used blood sucker as test by example, it does hit them but the cast bar does not stop.

Edit; wiki mentions it isn't interruptable.

Edited by meli, 18 January 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Tanthalas23]

Make sure your vocal on any for of comm your using and bam, problem solved (usually)

[Facekiller]

Cicada skin shed avoids SD... blow up next to me... its ok ... i dont mind....

[kiefer]

PARRY!! Yes you can parry SD, maybe guard can block it too.

[Baturiano]

I stood on a safety wall once and didnt die from SD... I dont know if that's position lag.

[Riakuta]

I stood on a safety wall once and didnt die from SD... I dont know if that's position lag.

Safety Wall eats Suicidal Destruction so standing inside of it will save your life.

[Memoir]

You know Suicidal Destruction is interrupt able right? Also so far I haven't seen a single Mechanic wearing Golden Thief Bug Card, but there was one funny Royal Guard wearing one .

You haven't seen ultimate?

[SergioSSA1LER]

Please don't nerf mechas/dancers anymore. Play one and see how "easy" it is.

[Dreimdal]

But not all the classes can do the trick,

Not all classes can beat every other class. This is true not just for mech. What's your point?

I think SD is balanced, and no, I don't play a mech. Anyone who dies to SD just needs to get better, or get better at coordinating with guildmates/allies to disable and take down the mech before it can even get in range to use SD.

The mech class already only revolves around that one skill. Nerfing it would be retarded at this point. It'd be like nerfing Magic Strings or Song of Despair, or <insert almost barely moderately powerful Performer class skill here>.

Please don't nerf mechas/dancers anymore. Play one and see how "easy" it is.

Absolutely right. Mechs and performers need buffs, not nerfs.

Siren's Voice effect lasts a grand total of 2 seconds against a 150/50. Many of their other skills are equally lame, or have ridiculous cool downs (3 minutes for Sinking Melody? Seriously?), or stupidly low success chances.

So many things could be fixed with performers just by giving their skill successes a little boost, and/or giving them much shorter cooldowns.



Anyway, I'm taking things off-topic. SD is fine.

Edited by Dreimdal, 27 January 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Peerless]

You haven't seen ultimate?

^This

The guy that defaults GTB as a mech.

[SergioSSA1LER]

^This

The guy that defaults GTB as a mech.

So... if I default 100 mdef + gr + dr + energy coat + gtb it means that warlocks need a nerf? You are mixing things up. Don't get confused please.

[Peerless]

So... if I default 100 mdef + gr + dr + energy coat + gtb it means that warlocks need a nerf? You are mixing things up. Don't get confused please.

And what are you talking about? O_o

I'm not saying anything needs a nerf,especially SD,since that's one of the two skills that makes a mechanic most useful in war.

I was just stating that Ultimate defaults a GTB lol,with him even mentioning it in a post and from what I've seen of him in war.And hes no noob with it either(at least from what I've seen,once again).What I could be saying though is that,NB and GTB is a potent mix in war,which makes things a little more interesting.

Edited by Peerless, 27 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Viri]

SD should just be made to not ignore reduction. It would at least be potentially tankable under specific circumstances then instead of literally being unsurvivable no matter what. They could remove the cooldown then.