308 replies to this topic

[otinane]

u mean block like after u get 2nd job u cant use skill anymore?

or block u cant go beyond some skill lvl unless u elem?

if they can block first way then ye no nerf is required and nothing on bm gonna change really,would be best way for ele/druid balance too..

but can they do it???
Shouldnt alteris post by now WHAT and HOW skills can be changed??
I mean u can add new skills??u can merge skills??u can block skills after some1 changes job???
or else whats the points of this discussion ;/

[Daniels1976]

Aint sure when week 2 starts but am do re he is lookimg at the post.

[Nikio]

By block i mean- when you change on druid class, you can't use bm skills (few). But yea... I don't know if they can do it.. We will see.

[Daniels1976]

It kinda of does sound like where trying to nerf one class that being druid or the battle mage I dont think the battle mage or druid should be nerfed just balanced so it would include the ele into just as much of enjoyable toon to play.

[otinane]

By block i mean- when you change on druid class, you can't use bm skills (few). But yea... I don't know if they can do it.. We will see.

that would be best coz 49ers bms wouldnt complain about nerf

when u talk to devs or who other is in charge for this try push them do it ;/

or else druid bound forever to be a high lvl bm that use forms for less than 2 secs each time)

[Daniels1976]

I see what your saying nikio but i also think ele needs to be more of a elementalist instead of just a crappy party buff toon and nerfing druid does nothing to help that unless you move some none transform skills from druid tree and put on ele but then people are saying that would make the ele op then i aint getting how it is a single target nuker when all of its offense comes from the bm skill tree

[Daniels1976]

If the bm skills make druid so op then what happen to the ele and using them skills too, you would think that would make a ele op too.

Edited by Daniels1976, 14 February 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[AngelicPretty]

Suggestion :

BM skill tree :

LCS: move to druid skill tree and make it be a physical skill^^.
LCT: keep as is
FCS: move to ele skill tree
Invisible arrow : move to ele skill tree
Acid Throw : block it to lvl 1 and only ele can get it to max with cd 15 secs at max lvl+dna (or make it a single target and let only ele have 1 dna that adds more targets and lowers cd up to 15 secs)
WasteWater : keep as is high CD and single target skill
Mysterious storm : same as acid throw (in the past this skill was blocked at some lvl and only elems could max it)
Raging Strike : make it like it was b4 druidele patch.
Absorbing energy : keep as is
WoH : keep as is
Wop : keep as is
Instant healing: keep as is

move thrown vine to ele skill tree and make it water based ground aoe with slow effect.

u guys think is good or crap?;/

Kill BM
And lvling one would be a GRRR. BM have 10 attacks- 2 are stuns and not rly used in lvling. then LCS & RS are generaly lvl1 or for RS not even taken. Vine you take and max but miss out on nukes and then stand there to cast.
That leaves 4 main nukes - 2 are aoe. you want to cap 2 those and make one no longer aoe.
CD's are a problem for many new BM's.
you are taking away 4 skills attacks of the 10 then resticing 2 others to lvl 1.

I rly rly dont think BM tree should be touched. they are fine and seem balanced in 49 and in lvling. In 49 it only rly temps heal i see needing touched.

As you said you are thinking from a druid standpoint. try loging my 24 or 49 BM Savy >< its gearz old out date now but still it goes ok and looking at other BMs i see about they ok. Log the Eles to mb... (think i screwed up a few skill points on one )

Think any changes should be made in second job tree not the first/bm.

[otinane]

oe well i tried be nice but i not really care for 49 skill tree....

especially atm getting to 50+ is fast takes like what 2-3 hours?><

The main problem is if bm tree not touched then in order to balance out or ''reinforce'' druid role without making it more op means cut down on druid stuff >>>means less usefull forms >>> high lvl bm with prolly just nerfed rob(still work for me and still the class will kill ok and no die much,but nothing fun)

tho tbh balancing out classes only around 49 lvl seems silly to me really but i agree remove stuns would be huge blow^^.

Hope What niki suggested works and certain BM skills can be Locked ONLY for druid ...

i agree tho with removing stuns it would kill the lil bms but for Acid throw nerf at least it wont do them much harm(considering for majority of game it was a dot skill...) ...

[Fudd]

They even made leveling in the early levels easier.

Also keep in mind that most druids use magic jewelry at the moment. If the druid attacks go to much towards physical, then the current druids might consider to switch to elementalist instead.

[Mythdra]

Pretty sure me and Nikio max that, just sayin'. The reason why Druid is so strong is the combination of the BM skills and the utility we already had, have you even read the topic?

Last I knew, Nikio does NOT have MS maxed.

You could essentially block those skills for Druid that savoura mentioned, and open them up for ele within reason before 50.But, hey, let's just balance everything around 49 FOC instead!

Never said anything about the sole focus being on 49. Was just stating that the thread is asking for RE balanced. not a complete class kill. and some of the things he had mentioned would be a class kill. Yes I mentioned 49 but 49 IS part of the game correct?

Secondly, NM isn't that hard to obtain a set for your main. Just do the quest on two alts at 75+. Only reason 79/85 weapons are hard to obtain is the fact that nobody wishes to run that dungeon for 79 weapons anymore and 85 takes quite a while to farm for the mats to make it.

I never said NM was hard to get. (which really it is if you are NOT P2W) I just said that Gravity introducing them to the game unbalanced things even further. If you disagree with that. You need to play the game more.

[otinane]

They even made leveling in the early levels easier.

Also keep in mind that most druids use magic jewelry at the moment. If the druid attacks go to much towards physical, then the current druids might consider to switch to elementalist instead.

ok u right.

So u have these choices now :

1) keep druid as it is w/o change anything
2) ''Balance'' stuns ( dg,inferno ones) so druid will never use inferno or doomgaurd(only for stun immunity when run away or expect stun)
3) Nerf RoB aoe and some defence buffs?(so all ur main attack skills with be like bm ones lol and again no point use forms)
4) a round up ''balance'' remove certain stuns only slight nerf to rob or dash etc....same outcome as above
5)keep druid as it is and add more skills and revamp form skills (tremendous amount of QQ and complain about druid ''QQ druid more Op now more stuns faster kills impossible kill ''xx name hacker'' etc)

take ur pick bro ;/

P.S ( wont even talk about pve where u NEVER actually use forms so what is druid role in the end ?)

Edited by otinane, 14 February 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Nikio]

Fudd, change on ele. Remove, dash, give dash for ele, give for ele def... Soo, it look like "Make from ele druid and from druid ele(?)". And yes, all druids using magic jewells, and 90% of them was ele before. xD

[Wreckd]

bleh its their fault for giving too much elemental attacks to the BM class in the first place and screwing up elementalist (what a class name right where the first their class has more elements to choose from) in the first place.

To fix this, BM should be called Elementalist and Elementalist should be called BattleMagician, problem fixed and no nerfing needed.

p.s I know i'm a boss at fixing things

[Fudd]

That's what im trying to say. They need to be carefull with the changes they make. Things like;
-If druids become too much physical based and elementalists get a nice boost
-If elementalist get a few ''key skills'' that used to be druid-skills (approach/def buff/ rage of bugs)
-If they nerf BM skills, so elementalists get a nerf once again.

[Viole]

I never said NM was hard to get. (which really it is if you are NOT P2W) I just said that Gravity introducing them to the game unbalanced things even further. If you disagree with that. You need to play the game more.

Obviously my first statement was that this game was p2w, everyone who plays knows this. Are you even reading the thread?
Secondly, not p2w here. Have good gear. Hi. Even before I went full NM set, my gear was good, not the greatest, but enough to stand out in comparison to others.
Even without NM the difference between gear is still astronomical, even when we were all running around with rare/carus jewels and 72/75 sets, the fact that a single piece of equipment introduced completely changes the game is only seeing one small part of it. This has been a problem since amplios became easily obtainable, and reinforcement tools as well.

But, this isn't a thread about item balance, it's a thread about balancing a class and two sub classes.
Simplest way is blocking some skills past 50 for BM as Druid, because everyone in 49 bracket would complain if said skills are nerfed for a 49 BM, end game though, these skills are broken especially when you're geared.

Spoiler

lol @ I need to play more. Please, I played this game enough. Sorry if you didn't venture outside of 49 bracket for PvP.

Edited by Viole, 14 February 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Daniels1976]

Finally someone said what should happen ele first job and bm second as its actually the single or multi target nuker but then you would have ele skills that druid could use and it would still be to op.

Edited by Daniels1976, 14 February 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Mythdra]

Obviously my first statement was that this game was p2w, everyone who plays knows this. Are you even reading the thread?

I would like to ask you the same.

Secondly, not p2w here. Have good gear. Hi. Even before I went full NM set, my gear was good, not the greatest, but enough to stand out in comparison to others.
Even without NM the difference between gear is still astronomical, even when we were all running around with rare/carus jewels and 72/75 sets, the fact that a single piece of equipment introduced completely changes the game is only seeing one small part of it. This has been a problem since amplios became easily obtainable, and reinforcement tools as well.

I never said NM Jewels completely changed the game by itself. Read what I said before you reply.

But, this isn't a thread about item balance, it's a thread about balancing a class and two sub classes.
Simplest way is blocking some skills past 50 for BM as Druid, because everyone in 49 bracket would complain if said skills are nerfed for a 49 BM, end game though, these skills are broken especially when you're geared.

Spoiler

lol @ I need to play more. Please, I played this game enough. Sorry if you didn't venture outside of 49 bracket for PvP.

Good job changing your spoiler and taking what I said completely out of context. Good job.

Edited by Mythdra, 14 February 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Viole]

Good job changing your signature and taking what I said completely out of context. Good job.

Signature has been there all this time, nice try making an assumption.




Concerning your point:

Spoiler

Obviously THEY won't balance items so everything on that argument is pretty worthless (concerning this discussion), considering I know firsthand how messed up going from okay gear to +30 or gtfo gear is firsthand. You limit everything 50+ by trying to balance for one bracket where nightmare jewels shouldn't even exist, though. Your implication was that content post-ET/post-Hell Iron weapons changed the game too, understandable, but it was the same when people had +30 70/72/75 items. As soon as the item system changed in S2, the whole game changed, that's something that's been discussed over and over, so drop it, everybody knows.

Now onto important matters:

The skills that people have listed over and over are far too strong when looking at an 85+ Druid, it's been a conversation I've had with so many Druid and Elem players that have quit and/or job-changed. When the cap was at 79 they were exponentially weaker, which is why before in 65 FOC you would only see "DoT Druids". The utility of the Druid tree combined with the damage given from BM form after the initial change is far too attractive to stray away from for 'Druideles', because face it the most used skills in both trees are those core BM skills. Not changing them in some way for druids is the worst move possible, and as many others express changing some druid skills to ele creates another monster entirely.

• If you want figures, then I'll give you figures I know from experience. 1.5k-3k Damage every five seconds from me or Nikio, or every 14 seconds from Battle Magician based skills. 1.1-1.5k Damage from LCT, combined with the ability to comfortably chase. Hell, at end game you kill more people with those skills than RoB, I've even seen certain people who job changed to elem break the same kill count as a 'Druidele' (which makes more sense seeing to me since they're supposed to nuke people down).

I'll re-iterate, ignoring the fact that those skills are strong on both trees SHOULD NOT be something that is allowed to happen. It makes perfect sense to leave them unlocked for a Battle Magician pre-50, and have them be in some way or form "locked" or at least taken to a less powerful extent when making the transition to Druid, then having them be beefed up as an Elementalist (because they naturally should have mastered this "attunement"). But, if that does not happen I'd rather see them shifted to a strictly elem based skill. (In terms of Mysterious Storm and Hydrochloric Acid Throw and the DNA for it) because you should not just balance (or imbalance it) solely because some early game class PvPers will get nerfed, that means you 49 FOC.

[Wreckd]

Signature has been there all this time, nice try making an assumption.




Concerning your point:

Spoiler

Obviously THEY won't balance items so everything on that argument is pretty worthless (concerning this discussion), considering I know firsthand how messed up going from okay gear to +30 or gtfo gear is firsthand. You limit everything 50+ by trying to balance for one bracket where nightmare jewels shouldn't even exist, though. Your implication was that content post-ET/post-Hell Iron weapons changed the game too, understandable, but it was the same when people had +30 70/72/75 items. As soon as the item system changed in S2, the whole game changed, that's something that's been discussed over and over, so drop it, everybody knows.

Now onto important matters:

The skills that people have listed over and over are far too strong when looking at an 85+ Druid, it's been a conversation I've had with so many Druid and Elem players that have quit and/or job-changed. When the cap was at 79 they were exponentially weaker, which is why before in 65 FOC you would only see "DoT Druids". The utility of the Druid tree combined with the damage given from BM form after the initial change is far too attractive to stray away from for 'Druideles', because face it the most used skills in both trees are those core BM skills. Not changing them in some way for druids is the worst move possible, and as many others express changing some druid skills to ele creates another monster entirely.

• If you want figures, then I'll give you figures I know from experience. 1.5k-3k Damage every five seconds from me or Nikio, or every 14 seconds from Battle Magician based skills. 1.1-1.5k Damage from LCT, combined with the ability to comfortably chase. Hell, at end game you kill more people with those skills than RoB, I've even seen certain people who job changed to elem break the same kill count as a 'Druidele' (which makes more sense seeing to me since they're supposed to nuke people down).

I'll re-iterate, ignoring the fact that those skills are strong on both trees SHOULD NOT be something that is allowed to happen. It makes perfect sense to leave them unlocked for a Battle Magician pre-50, and have them be in some way or form "locked" or at least taken to a less powerful extent when making the transition to Druid, then having them be beefed up as an Elementalist (because they naturally should have mastered this "attunement"). But, if that does not happen I'd rather see them shifted to a strictly elem based skill. (In terms of Mysterious Storm and Hydrochloric Acid Throw and the DNA for it) because you should not just balance (or imbalance it) solely because some early game class PvPers will get nerfed, that means you 49 FOC.

In other words, "suck it up princess"

[Agamotto]

Signature has been there all this time, nice try making an assumption.




Concerning your point:

Spoiler

Obviously THEY won't balance items so everything on that argument is pretty worthless (concerning this discussion), considering I know firsthand how messed up going from okay gear to +30 or gtfo gear is firsthand. You limit everything 50+ by trying to balance for one bracket where nightmare jewels shouldn't even exist, though. Your implication was that content post-ET/post-Hell Iron weapons changed the game too, understandable, but it was the same when people had +30 70/72/75 items. As soon as the item system changed in S2, the whole game changed, that's something that's been discussed over and over, so drop it, everybody knows.

Now onto important matters:

The skills that people have listed over and over are far too strong when looking at an 85+ Druid, it's been a conversation I've had with so many Druid and Elem players that have quit and/or job-changed. When the cap was at 79 they were exponentially weaker, which is why before in 65 FOC you would only see "DoT Druids". The utility of the Druid tree combined with the damage given from BM form after the initial change is far too attractive to stray away from for 'Druideles', because face it the most used skills in both trees are those core BM skills. Not changing them in some way for druids is the worst move possible, and as many others express changing some druid skills to ele creates another monster entirely.

• If you want figures, then I'll give you figures I know from experience. 1.5k-3k Damage every five seconds from me or Nikio, or every 14 seconds from Battle Magician based skills. 1.1-1.5k Damage from LCT, combined with the ability to comfortably chase. Hell, at end game you kill more people with those skills than RoB, I've even seen certain people who job changed to elem break the same kill count as a 'Druidele' (which makes more sense seeing to me since they're supposed to nuke people down).

I'll re-iterate, ignoring the fact that those skills are strong on both trees SHOULD NOT be something that is allowed to happen. It makes perfect sense to leave them unlocked for a Battle Magician pre-50, and have them be in some way or form "locked" or at least taken to a less powerful extent when making the transition to Druid, then having them be beefed up as an Elementalist (because they naturally should have mastered this "attunement"). But, if that does not happen I'd rather see them shifted to a strictly elem based skill. (In terms of Mysterious Storm and Hydrochloric Acid Throw and the DNA for it) because you should not just balance (or imbalance it) solely because some early game class PvPers will get nerfed, that means you 49 FOC.

[Viole]

I know someone who's seeing Miss A, u mad?
They gonna meet your bias )

[AngelicPretty]

like idea of locking BM skills at 49 for Druid

[Mythdra]

like idea of locking BM skills at 49 for Druid

Good idea but would Gravity do it is the question.

[Agamotto]

I know someone who's seeing Miss A, u mad?
They gonna meet your bias )