138 replies to this topic

[Jono]

Vanilla element is it! XD but theys alot buffs then not compensation, cuz u dont have damage power anymore and not survive in same time hahaha so u like a meat with hp that not kill and not survive... Duel of berserk versus elementalist is hilarios XD Druids can do similar damage from elementalist and have amount of defese / alot of stuns / skill totem (rage of bugs) soooooo people change for druidele. In foc lv 69 druids twinks with matchs lol Alot def and alot resistenc and medium-alot hp lol so like a immortal XD

[otinane]

Vanilla element is it! XD but theys alot buffs then not compensation, cuz u dont have damage power anymore and not survive in same time hahaha so u like a meat with hp that not kill and not survive... Duel of berserk versus elementalist is hilarios XD Druids can do similar damage from elementalist and have amount of defese / alot of stuns / skill totem (rage of bugs) soooooo people change for druidele. In foc lv 69 druids twinks with matchs lol Alot def and alot resistenc and medium-alot hp lol so like a immortal XD

A beserker is a physical single target class, u are not supposed to kill it 1vs1 with an aoe caster class that one more unbalance of druidele....its not just elem but saker/mystic/defiler/dominator/tempest etc that die vs them or a sin or a comie ....(basically all caster classes die in 1vs1 with physical single targets aoe or not caster,only druid can kill all for some reason lol).

Using this as example to boost elem and make it like druid is now (dash/defence buffs/aoe) will just make ele to how druid is now and ppl will stop play druid....

All caster i can think of are same in terms of defence or other buffs in terms of survivability..

I think because u play druid and u compare it to elem u think its normal and all other casters have cap defence stuns/dash and magic skills like druid which is not the case...

Edited by otinane, 26 February 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Jono]

No no i was elementalist that die with 2x hits from all berserks xD u.u"

[otinane]

If the elem dies 2 hits then defiler/mystic/saker/dominator/tempest dies as well,your point is what excactly??

[VanillaNinja]

If the elem dies 2 hits then defiler/mystic/saker/dominator/tempest dies as well,your point is what excactly??

they alredy do if not full 30+

[AngelicPretty]

other than everything i said in other thread.

like to add. Please Add light resist to TB weaps/sheilds.

That would help vs RoB and Venger trapzZz

[VanillaNinja]

other than everything i said in other thread.

like to add. Please Add light resist to TB weaps/sheilds.

That would help vs RoB and Venger trapzZz

try use 79 set for light

[Cleffy]

I think if you want to make Elementalist like Berserker or Assassin you have to take away any of their defensive abilities. Berserker sacrafices their defenses to be more powerful, which is why they have the highest single target DPS. Assassin has only 1 defensive move and a bunch of debilitation attacks/stuns. So if you were to mimic that in magic form it would have to take that into account. Its also more difficult to balance magic damage as opposed to physical damage. I think probably the best approach is having attacks that ignore resistance, but are not all that powerful.

[Nikio]

I think if you want to make Elementalist like Berserker or Assassin you have to take away any of their defensive abilities. Berserker sacrafices their defenses to be more powerful, which is why they have the highest single target DPS. Assassin has only 1 defensive move and a bunch of debilitation attacks/stuns. So if you were to mimic that in magic form it would have to take that into account. Its also more difficult to balance magic damage as opposed to physical damage. I think probably the best approach is having attacks that ignore resistance, but are not all that powerful.

Ele? defensive abilities?

[Lithi]

other than everything i said in other thread.

like to add. Please Add light resist to TB weaps/sheilds.

That would help vs RoB and Venger trapzZz

true many classes are OP / not OP bcause of great / worse stats of gear

[Cleffy]

Heals + Physical Def.

[Wreckd]

Bro having attack bypassing resist is a NO. You do remember the beamslash, poison based skills for assassins/sr days don't you? With the current state of level 85 weapons (old and new), those will be critting for over 5k easily even if it adds minimum damage on the skill.

[Viole]

Lol because those heals are so OP. Elem doesn't get any physical def buffs, Cleffy, that's Druid and we want them to go full physical.

[otinane]

i think cleffy is still back in 2010~ or sth just let him be lol.

[Cleffy]

Fairy King Protection
Holy Bliss
Fairy Protection

The point is to make Elementalist the highest single target DPS caster class, then something that bypasses some or all of a characters resistance will get them to that point. Otherwise the initial attack that an Elementalist would need to be the highest single target DPS caster would be too high.

[otinane]

Fairy King Protection
Holy Bliss
Fairy Protection

The point is to make Elementalist the highest single target DPS caster class, then something that bypasses some or all of a characters resistance will get them to that point. Otherwise the initial attack that an Elementalist would need to be the highest single target DPS caster would be too high.

the res buff most elems got it as filler considering u max out res from gear,fairy's protection is completely useless defence buff in bm tree,and the hp buff is good.

Bypassing res??Elem supposed have all elemental attacks sth no other casters in game have (not counting druid),u also got the nukes which technically deal the most damage single target compared to any other magic skill in game..

what u suggest is like saying protector supposed be the tank class so give them skill that enable them take 0 dmg from all phy and magic attacks lol..

or zerker supposed have highest dps phy single target so make their AA bypass defence....

think the problem with ele is make their magic buffs tougher and mb twist some skills or add new to make them more appealing not give a 1 hit skill,bypass res at end game means 7k hits..

[Cleffy]

A skill that changes elements is the only suggestion I have made for Elementalist. Given the current skills outside the one I suggested, the only way to make it highest is to bypass some or all resistance. You are looking at a difference of what happens when a person has 20% res to water or 80% res to water. If you buff the base so its higher to address what its like against a target with 80% res, than you are inflating the damage to a 20% res target alot more. On the other hand if you make the damage lower and have it ignore some or all resistance, it does the target of higher dps, but does not make it so severe against low resistance targets.

To me, if they are suppose to have the same title as highest single target DPS, then they need the drawbacks of the highest single target DPS even if the players choose not to get such skills.

Edited by Cleffy, 26 February 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[otinane]

i dont get it.

elem atm really have no defence or any other survivability skill that is usefull,what u mean even if the player choose not to get such skills??

Also bypassing resistance is not the answer.

If elem magic buffs are restored and some get boosted (like making the mind buff give int or boosting high conc) ele will have highest dmg than any other casters....and about bypassing res the whole point of this class is having magic skill (mainly nukes) from all sorts of elements which kinda already have...

The main drawback of ele is the gameplay of single target caster both pve and pvp,sometimes defence buffs or res buffs or hp buffs dont mean much....(which ele has none except hp buff)

Example :

Zerker : end game full +30 can have cap defence/almost all res max and 30k HP yet he will die more and kill less than an aoe caster class or an SR/sin same geared in a mass battle..

u are a WL right??i remember LT's WL had 30kish hp all res capped except wind and cap defence too yet his k/d was much worse than that of an aoe caster etc

survivability is not just the skills u have mate but the gameplay as well in mass battle....u have to look at this too when u talk for a class.

[Viole]

1. Fairy's Protection is negligible, look at the values on it.

2. Holy Bliss is about 1.9k HP and the proposed change is to make it a party buff.

3.Fairy King Protection was also proposed as a resist party buff, but again to an elem that is negligible since you can cap pretty much every resist with any caster, so it would definitely become an attractive skill for a team to have.

Piercing is a topic I'm not even going to touch upon because simply put, it's a bad idea. As I said, the values on those heals are highly negligible save for Absorbing Energy, but tweaking that hurts two classes and not just one. Wave of Healing requires a ton of mind, magic damage, and scad to be effective since it is a non-crit heal. Your implication makes it sound like elem doesn't have the skill set available to them, but that's very untrue, it just requires extensive tweaking.

Lastly, I'd like to say that the biggest drawback for an elementalist would be the lack of utility in escape mechanisms (which currently that is all the Druid tree is used for really, and I'll sound like a broken record here and say that it should not be like that at all). I still find it very silly that you brought up a defense buff that gives 77 defense at level 10 and 110 defense with 10 DNA invested into it. The only number I see being high is the 1858 DNA Holy Bliss provides, but as a class that specializes in INT/CON/SCAD/SCC it's not that big of a deal, also added to this is the 11% Resist you would get from Fairy King's Protection,which is also negligible due to the stats you specialize in (especially when you take 69-90 brackets into account where it is quite easy to cap your resists versus your defense). But of course this is a gear balancing issue that runs concurrent to class balance.

[Wreckd]

The just need to revert a few of the elem buff pre-nerf status and they'll be top of the chain for highest single target dps in game, the only thing that will come close to beating an elem in dps then would be forsaker due to passive buffs and blazing wind but the advantage they will have over saker will be to hit with different array of elements hence not being completely shut down with a toon that got capped resist in one dept like saker being fire.

I'm against by-passing resistance, it's a really stupid idea as per the old commander beam slash or assassins/sr poison based skill. I do not know where you get these sick and twisted ideas from cleffy.

RoB- Should stay a druid skills, doesn't make much sense to get this across to Elementalist and as someone said, invisible arrow should be elementalist only as druids got way too many stuns currently at their disposal. As for lightning chill slash, that should be either buffed or add a secondary effect like a cold/elec % debuff maybe?

[Viole]

RoB- Should stay a druid skills, doesn't make much sense to get this across to Elementalist and as someone said, invisible arrow should be elementalist only as druids got way too many stuns currently at their disposal. As for lightning chill slash, that should be either buffed or add a secondary effect like a cold/elec % debuff maybe?

RoB should go back to a DoT only
(Only me and Sevvy ran it before anyway lol)

But yeah, I think chill slash should honestly go back to being physical, considering that it's not even used at all right now at least it'd have place in a druids combo that way.

[Wreckd]

o0 MiYoung is you lol, i was going to kill you the other day, like i saw that elf on a box chilling with longhorns.

[Viole]

o0 MiYoung is you lol, i was going to kill you the other day, like i saw that elf on a box chilling with longhorns.

Yeah I was MiYoung for a bit before merger as a little joke with some guildies cause of dumb things people said in TB/SvS.
I was going to rename it back to Ditto after merger, but it got sniped and I don't care enough to get it back lol.

[Cleffy]

It really needs to be done with an even hand. If its proposed that Elementalist should have the highest single target DPS of any caster, then they should have the same disadvantages as other single target DPS classes. The advantage with Elementalist being ranged DPS which makes up for the lack of HP and armor compared to melee single target DPS classes.

That brings us to how the Elementalist gets its damage from. To me there are 3 ways to approach it. They can give them a greater array of elements so they can throw a skill that the opponent does not have alot of resists on. They can give them a greater amount of attack power. They can give them a piercing effect. To me the piercing effect is the best solution.
Option 1 means more skills need to be added.
With option 2 we have to consider the scenario. If for instance an attack does 2k damage to a target with 80% resistance. It will do 8k damage to a target with 20% resistance. This is a pretty wide damage delta. If instead it does 5k damage to the target with low resistance, and the piercing effect makes it do 2k damage to a target with 80% resistance, then we have a skill with a narrower damage delta. Now this means for increasing attack power even more focus is put into gears and thus more into the item mall.
With option 3 it would be easier to balance the skill in regard to the increased reliance on the item mall.

[Viole]

It really needs to be done with an even hand. If its proposed that Elementalist should have the highest single target DPS of any caster, then they should have the same disadvantages as other single target DPS classes. The advantage with Elementalist being ranged DPS which makes up for the lack of HP and armor compared to melee single target DPS classes.

That brings us to how the Elementalist gets its damage from. To me there are 3 ways to approach it. They can give them a greater array of elements so they can throw a skill that the opponent does not have alot of resists on. They can give them a greater amount of attack power. They can give them a piercing effect. To me the piercing effect is the best solution.
Option 1 means more skills need to be added.
With option 2 we have to consider the scenario. If for instance an attack does 2k damage to a target with 80% resistance. It will do 8k damage to a target with 20% resistance. This is a pretty wide damage delta. If instead it does 5k damage to the target with low resistance, and the piercing effect makes it do 2k damage to a target with 80% resistance, then we have a skill with a narrower damage delta. Now this means for increasing attack power even more focus is put into gears and thus more into the item mall.
With option 3 it would be easier to balance the skill in regard to the increased reliance on the item mall.

The problem here is that this game has to be balanced around item mall, if you start balancing classes without balancing the factor that is item mall usage first you will end up with an array of classes with strong skills that only get increased by further item mall usage. Now, it's admirable that you do want to fix that factor but, trust me it's not going to happen. There's already people that can do 8k damage on a 0 defense target (not going to list who of course), so trying to fix that when people that do 2k on cap already deal around the same damage would just result in the same damage dealer hitting 8k on cap, and even more on someone with low resist.