126 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Hmmm yeah god item creation isn't exactly motivation to do something. No big deal.

Much rather just wait for it magically happen and do it with no work.

 

You're wrong aaron, like I said, if you are DEAD when the seals roll and someone else is ALIVE, you are at a disadvantage. That should be motivation enough to GD war and control the NPC.

Edited by Xellie, 11 July 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[superlegit]

we would have won if we had a set /thread

 

your "timing advantage" means nothing when you ccan watch who is going to turn in whatever seal.

[Xellie]

dingdingding we have someone who gets it.

 

If someone was watching we would have just sat 10 people at the npc and waited, you'd never know cause they aren't logging in/out. Yes we may have lost and it would have sucked, but that means a lot more than all the people who are frankly clueless.

[iamvrypwrful]

I'd beat you 9/10 times starting dead.

 

WoE 2.0 god item creation makes more sense.

 

 > Needing an econ, not boring as -_-.

 

edit: stop calling me by my first name.

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 11 July 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[Xellie]

(not that I'd open the thing knowing you were waiting/online, I am a very patient woman)

Is it possible to have a discussion without you flaunting your ego?

I mean just for once, because all your posts right now translate to "omg I don't want to do the quest, I want the server to do it for me."

 

The only thing that you say that is valid is that the system is somewhat nonsensical, but you don't actually suggest a reasonable alternative. It's really sick that things cannot be discussed without you turning it into some kind of ADMIT ME BEST OR ME TROLL TILL CM LOCK THREAD!

 

I'm entitled to defend the amount of work my guild put into the seals, because it is actually what Valhalla stands by, playing the actual game to get rewarded. Not sit on their asses and be rewarded for other people doing quests. I don't believe the server owes us the ability to make an item. Where as you seem to think that the rest of the server should do X number of quests so you can just log in doing nothing. That is absurd.

 

If every guild that has an item waiting did 1/5 the number of quests per seal, everyone would get their thing made at some point. Just maybe not by blasting through it all at once like we did. So yeah, maybe the rewards need looking at by the number is not so crazy when you actually math everything out.

 

Spoiler

Seal 1 : 5 mins per quest

Seal 2 : 7 mins per quest

Seal 3 : 15 mins per quest

Seal 4 : 4 mins per quest depending on sudri.

 

edit: no. I refuse to call you vry pwrful. In the future however, you may only refer to me by my RO name, Eyjafjallajokull.

Edited by Xellie, 11 July 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[superlegit]

but you don't actually suggest a reasonable alternative.

 

 

he said woe 2 god item quest is how it should be.

Edited by superlegit, 11 July 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[Hrishi]

This honestly has nothing to do with seal numbers being 50 or 100. It's more the fact that seal quests aren't worth rolling unless you are making a god item. And even then you aren't guaranteed making it. Not even seal 4 or 3 rolled itself, because it's not worth doing.

 

That being said I don't see it as a problem at all. Seal quests are the bottleneck for god item creation right now. Unless the GMs are prepared to revamp the entire system (which they aren't), it's not worth discussing. Reducing it to 50 is going to do nothing but make guilds have to do 50 quests each instead of 100. It will still be the bottleneck, but an easier bottleneck.

[Nymmastal]

I think the GMs should definitely wait a little while before reducing the Seal requirement. It would be pretty rude if they reduced it right after a guild finished pushing the 100 quest version. Give it some time for recent wounds to heal and past suffering to be forgotten. This doesn't only apply to certain guilds, either. If another guild were to roll the seals next week, the same grace period should be given to them for the same reasons. GMs just imagine how you would feel if you bought a $100,000 car and as soon as you drove it off the lot the dealer immediately reduced the price to $50,000.

 

I like the idea of making the quest rewards better, but I think with weapons that will only work as a temporary solution. It relies on the weapons retaining their value. The more the seals roll, the less valuable these weapons become. What happens when the value of the reward becomes less than the cost of the time it takes to do the quest? "Average Joe" stops doing the quests anymore and we're back to square one, where 300-400 quests have to be done by a small handful of people. Kind of a -_-ty system, I think we can all agree?

 

If we can come up with rewards that retain their value, the seals can be left at 100 people each. But let's try to do so while keeping in mind other parts of the game that it might effect.

 

Starsands maybe? They might retain their value because of the Alchemist ranking system. Using them to keep yourself ranked forces other people to use theirs to keep themselves ranked which forces you to use even more to keep yourself ranked and it goes around like that. This might effect other parts of the game in that Condensed Whites would become more widely available. However, how would this effect the Starsand botters? Would it remove some of their advantage or simply add to it? I think it could go either way. =/ Thoughts? The Starsand idea relies entirely on the Alchemist ranking system being fought over by more than 10 Alchemists. The threat of being knocked off the list is what motivates them to buy more Starsands. Them buying more Starsands is what motivates "Average Joes" to do the seal quests. So are there even enough Alchemists currently fighting for a spot? I don't keep up with it.

 

Alternatively, we could try to come up with a way to make the Seal quests un-ninja-able. People seem to prefer Okolnir for two major reasons. (1) It's based more on skill than mindless quest grinding. (2) Your work can't be stolen. If we can add the 2nd element to the Seal Quests it would at least make rolling the seals more attractive to those who have god item pieces waiting. It doesn't do much to get the rest of the community involved, but one step at a time I guess.

Edited by Nymmastal, 12 July 2013 - 03:01 AM.

[Hrishi]

Starsands maybe? They might retain their value because of the Alchemist ranking system. Using them to keep yourself ranked forces other people to use theirs to keep themselves ranked which forces you to use even more to keep yourself ranked and it goes around like that. This might effect other parts of the game in that Condensed Whites would become more widely available. However, how would this effect the Starsand botters? Would it remove some of their advantage or simply add to it? I think it could go either way. =/ Thoughts? The Starsand idea relies entirely on the Alchemist ranking system being fought over by more than 10 Alchemists. The threat of being knocked off the list is what motivates them to buy more Starsands. Them buying more Starsands is what motivates "Average Joes" to do the seal quests. So are there even enough Alchemists currently fighting for a spot? I don't keep up with it.

 

Actually a very good idea. If every quest gave a significant amount of starsands, it would be worth doing by anybody. If you don't have a ranked potter of your own, you can turn around and vend it for zeny. Of course, if it gives an insignificant amount of sands we'd be back to square one. 

 

I think it would reduce the reliance on botted starsand supplies. Oh, I'm out of starsands? Time to do some seal quests. Not time to spam refresh ragial for a bot vendor so I can buy out his stock.

Edited by Hrishi, 12 July 2013 - 03:04 AM.

[Xellie]

I'll ignore the insults since firing back would get the discussion locked.

 

I think the question you need to ask yourself before discussing this is something along the lines of the following:

 

Is this something the guild that is making them should be doing, or something the server is doing, because the guild already put in work to get the parts.

 

As it stands right now, it's fairly ambiguous, Right now the complaint seems to be that in 12 months of server life only 4 god items have been made (lets average that at 3 months....) How often do we as a server want them made? When the entire classic community seems to stand behind the idea that God Item saturation is stupid (see Ymir)

 

This isn't me stating I don't think a change is needed, I think the problem is a lot more complex than "omg seals need to roll more often"... do they... really need to roll more often? Do we really want more god items appearing quickly?

 

Let me put this into perspective really fast: God item SETS can be made very quickly. I own 5 castles at the moment and I got 4 god item parts today, from 3 castles. (2 from one castle, 1 from each other) . -

This weeks total being 9 god item part drops. There are 2 days left. It's fast. Very fast.

 

There are those who have concerns over high end powerful item saturation, this is also an issue. The drop rate of god item parts is highly accelerated on this server. Is it reasonable to be able to make them as they are completed?

Edited by Xellie, 12 July 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Hrishi]

You'd be pretty butthurt right now if I had a few more pieces.

 

 

we would have won if we had a set /thread

 

 

I'd beat you 9/10 times starting dead.

 

Is it possible to have a discussion without e-peen stroking in every single post?

[VModSushi]

Keep the name calling and drama out of the forums please.

[zerowon]

okay am gonna go out on a limb here with this for rewards now this may be more  for the pvm /casual player or to attract  newer players into gaining wealth etc this would prolyl be more incentive to having playes do it with a small chance for a high rewards. heres a list of what i had in mind.

keep in mind the diablous gears are for when they get implemented

tier 1 | 1% chance to get
sloted mids
bloody shackle ball
ring of flame lord
Ring Of Resonance



Tier 2 | 5% chance to get
valkyrie armor
diablous armor
diablous robe
diablous helm
diablous manteau
orleans server
orleans glove
varient shoes

 

tier 3 | 50% chance to get
ulle cap
valkyrie manteau
valkyrie shoes
morpheus`s ring
morpheus`s braclet
glove [1]
vesper cores
Valkyrie shield
Morrigane Manteau
Tier 4 | 90% chance to get

Magni's Cap
Fricca's Circlet
Morpheus's Hood
Morrigane's Helm
Vali Manteau
Morpheus Shawl
 

Edited by zerowon, 12 July 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Ralis]

Morri Mant needs to be moved down. Thanatos isn't exactly easy to come by.

[Victoryblood]

Variant Shoes and Orlean's Glove should be in tier one imo.

[zerowon]

Variants are already 20% base from the MVP without gum or VIP Orleans is fine as it is remember your trying to provide incentive to do the seals ala carrot on the stick most of the other items are lower then there actually drop rate of doing the Mvps

[Ralis]

I don't understand why you have rings at a lower chance though. People aren't even buying Ifrit rings.

[Andini]

renewal has kvm badges as a reward.  classic can have bg badges (you can then update bg rewards to include an increased range of supplies including wss/etc)

[HikariYari]

I think another Issue is not that many new players even know how to do or are even aware of the seal quests. That and the Obvious lack of players joining and staying on the server because they can't find actual people to play with. People leaving due to poorly thought out decisions that made it to the server when people were fighting them pretty strongly.  

 

I don't think it's just the rewards that need to be changed it's how you let the new players know "look here! A quest you should do it, You will get something nice!"  So that they learn there is something to gain if they add to the hard work of others.

Edited by HikariYari, 12 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[zerowon]

Yes advertising needs to be done the rates etc can be adjusted but there is a huge market for a stable pre renewal server . As you said ther needs to be also a guide on useful quests to do and ways to obtain helpful items at a low level which the seals quest offer at 60to 70 . A guild welcoming pack can be a incentive say for 10 member guilds with woe type items must attend 2weekly woes as a prerequisite to claim it

[Nymmastal]

The over saturation of god items is a big concern. I believe that's a side effect of having too many castles for too small of a population. The GMs should have reduced the number of castles per WoE a long time ago. I seem to remember a lot of us asking for it a while back. Their inaction is causing history to repeat itself. I thought they swore not to let this server go the same route as Ymir. Perhaps it's time to reignite the flame under their asses.

Edited by Nymmastal, 12 July 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[Xellie]

Reducing castles would do nothing. It's the 8%+ drop rate per item that is the issue

[superlegit]

Reducing castles would do nothing. It's the 8%+ drop rate per item that is the issue

 

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[Nymmastal]

Disabling gum on treasure would help too. Somehow I don't see the GMs doing that. Dolla dolla bills yall

Edited by Nymmastal, 12 July 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[cybernetic]

8% drop rate on god item pieces? daymn