142 replies to this topic

[Joaco]

Hi, I want you to crit my current geneticist build and give me some advices to improve it. It’s MvP only. 0 WoE, 0 PvP. He’s 142/33 atm.
Stats:
Str 100
Vit 90
Int 100
Dex 90

Future stas: Str 100, vit 100, int 100 and dex 100, or idk. Maybe higher str and int, but not sure.

Current skills:
http://irowiki.org/~...BeaqsqnjNk3eIn1
Final skills:
http://irowiki.org/~...eAqsqnjNrA2eIn1

Equipment I use:
+12 Turkey with Carat (doesn’t increase damage but gives me more survality)
BDM
Pirate Dagger
Valky Armor with Succubus
+12 Carga Mace with 2 AK (I know I should be using a +12 Red Twin with 2 AS)
Valky Shield with Alice/Bradium Shield with Thara Frog
+9 HBP
Variant Shoes
Diabolus Ring with Phen
Diabolus Ring uncarded

I should definitely improve my equipment lol, it kinda sux haha.
Btw, I have a 150 Amistr>Dieter, so Pyroclastic gives me +200 ATK, juicy.
What do you think about the stats and what should I change? Same with skills and equipment. Thanks in advance.

P/S: the skill tree webpage is not working as intented. imma try to find another one to put my skills..

[DrAzzy]

Why do you have 100 int when you say it's an MVP build? You care about AB damage, not CC/Hell Plant damage.
1 str adds almost twice as much as 1 int for AB damage (and 3 luk = 2 int, which will surprise a lot of you). Once you get that 90 int for HBP bonus, further int is not justified on an MVP build.

96+4 vit. Don't need more than that.

For optimizing damage of acid bomb, 105 base str, 41 base luk, 90 base int is the optimal distribution of that number of status points (and the 90 int only because of the HBP bonus). You can get that with 90 base dex for HBP and 96+4 vit and have a few status points left.

It's time to put away the thanksgiving leftovers. It's march. Turkey hat has no place on a genetic.
If you want more survivability, make some +7 AK helms! 10% boss reduction that stacks additively with alice shield (50% reduc instead of 40% - meaning you take about 17% less with the AKH than without). I card them with the ele resist cards and pair them up with glasses with same. Combined with the resist from valk shield, ele proof potion, and a KBC, you can get really nice reduction like this. And AK helms are cheap for some reason.
If you don't want more survivability, dark pingicula evil marching hat.

+HP armor should, generally speaking, never be worn or made.
For MVP genetic, you need a fire armor, a water armor, a shadow armor, and an unfrozen typhoon armor. Slotted fire armor is actually cheaper than pasana card last I checked. The details of these armors aren't a big deal. Unless you can afford a second KBC WDB (see below), in which case you want them to be orleans gowns so you can wear 2x KBC acc with them. A more extreme approach is to put the elemental cards into +12 bakonawa scale armor (bayani), for the +6% boss reduction - I have difficulty justifying that sort of expenditure though.

Diablo rings are completely inappropriate for the genetic class.
Water Drop Brooch is my accessory of choice. One phen, one with kafra blossom card in it. Or two with KBC if you can afford it (but you still need a phen one, for when you need to use the wind unfrozen, which you often will).
WDB's because lots of MVPs use water skills, and they're often hard to tank (waterball for example).

For skills, be sure to get at least level 1 bloodsucker so you can 1-shot the plant def monsters in the malaya instances.

Go with fire expansion tree.

[Qani]

Not trying to hijack the thread but I have a question for you Dr. Azzy:

How is the damage for Lord of the Dead Helm + AK carded weapons compare to EMH? Which is higher?

[Joaco]

About the int, I didn't know it. Don't know why I put it, I guess I thought it was like pre renewal where int affected the AB damage by a lot. If I go with the stats you posted I have several points to use, I could put 110 str, or idk, maybe more luk? Btw, why 41? Don't get it.
For now I'm just using it for ET only, or maybe BB's, so I don't really care dying, I just want to rape the mvp's as fast as I can, being ress by the healer and keep bombing. So I guess I'd preffer ATK equipment. About the weapon, I guess that one I mentioned is the best for mvping, isn't it?

[Qani]

Hurrican Fury with EA enchants does the most damage.

[DrAzzy]

Well, 1 str = 2.8, luk = 1, int = 1.5 for relative AB damage.

At 41 luk adding a stat point takes 6 points.
At 100, adding str takes 16 points, so adding str is the cheapest way to get more damage, so we add str to 105 at which point it costs 20 points, and at that point adding luk would be cheaper until 51 luk at which point int would become cheaper until int is 91, at which point luk would once again be cheaper.
At 90 int adding int takes 10 points.


See what I'm doing there?


So you're only building for one half of the role of an MVP genetic, then? Well then screw the defensive gear and add damage gear.... I do not really like building for that, though - MVPing is way better when you don't need to drag an AB along for most MVPs and can just march up and tank the stuff. ABs and party members are real downers, they always expect a share of the loot :-/

Hurricane Fury is only barely the best at medium size (and isn't the best vs small, but who fights small monsters?):
Vs large
+12 RTE 3x AS 1519
+13 Erde 2xAS 2xEA4 1545 (+13 because it's a level 3 weap and hence easier to upgrade)
+12 HF 1x AS 2x EA4 1981
+12 Byeo 2x EA 4 1563

Vs medium

+12 RTE 3x AS 1657
+13 Erde 2xAS 2xEA4 1545
+12 HF 1x AS 2x EA4 1757
+12 Byeo 2x EA 4 1751

I think for the relatively small amount of damage added, it's absolutely insane to sacrifice the shield for it. But then again lots of genetics don't seem to understand just how amazingly durable the class can be made to be - and of course they don't realize it, because they go around wearing pure offensive gear, dependent on other players to tank for them.

LoD helm + AK card is better for damage, though it ties you to the weapon, and doesn't offer the defense, and some people say that the helm doesn't actually work correctly (I don't have one to test).

[ExplosPlankton]

Speaking of eleproof potions, does waterproof not exist? Or is it under a different name?

Edited by ExplosPlankton, 10 March 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[DrAzzy]

Speaking of eleproof potions, does waterproof not exist? Or is it under a different name?

coldproof
thunderproof
fireproof
earthproof

[DonatoX]

OMG.. Do you have 150 Dieter?? Wowww,,, How is that Pyroclastic skill??? DO you like it??

[Joaco]

Yeah, Pyroclastic is da ! But since my weapon sux, I just make average damage x.x
@DrAzzy, I said offensive>deffensive gear, since it's only for ET mainly, at least for now. And I can't get enough resistances to survive trying to kill Ifrit or Valkyrie Randgris. The MvPs from the lower floors are damn easy, rape them all without dying. If I could get enough resist to survive against them, then yeah! I want deffensive gear! But I don't think I can get that.. can I? (without gods or mvp cards)
About the weapon, HF is the best as I can see now, but of course, no shield. I'm not sure about that, does it really worth it using it? I mean, is it really OP to not gear a shield? If so, then I'd go with that , if not, then maybe Byeo or RTE, since I don't know the exact price of the +12 Byeo with 2 EA4 (it's prolly damn higher than the red twin and it's just 44 and 94 more damage than RTE).
I think the LoD helm + AK works fine, I'll ask a guildie if it's working as intended or not. If I use the HF, and the LoD, should I put a AK card on the weapon?
Stats.. Hmm, so str caped at 105? str 105, vit 90, int 90, dex 90, luk 63. What about that? too much luk and low vit?

[markdoesbark]

Make your vit even out at 100, unless you like being stunned

[Sidaekao]

Azzy, I see you're talking about Triple Archer Skel cards in RTE. Does that come out better than Triple AK?

[kingjoe547]

Hey wanna ask something off topic. Until what lvl your homunculus will get skill points every 3lvls?

[jshun123]

Azzy, I see you're talking about Triple Archer Skel cards in RTE. Does that come out better than Triple AK?

yes as far as my undersranding goes how AB calculates %dmg increase card is very minimal and AS ia just general 10% increase so overall AS comes out top... I think someone can explain what i said with more accuracy but its along this line..

[DrAzzy]

You don't ever stop getting 1 homun skill point per 3 homun levels.

yes as far as my undersranding goes how AB calculates %dmg increase card is very minimal and AS ia just general 10% increase so overall AS comes out top... I think someone can explain what i said with more accuracy but its along this line..

Unless you have an unusual amount of weapon/equip attack (including meg or something that greatly boosts your str), 3x AS is better.

If you do have an unusual amount of weapon/equip attack, 3x AK will do more.

[Joaco]

@Azzy, I can get Orlean's Gown with fire/wind/water/earth reduc and a valky should be good. I resist some EQ from Valky Randgris (without wind armor), couldn't with Ifrit's ones (with pasana). About the weapon well.. the best damage with that HF is so damn juicy.. but I don't know, not sure about leaving the genet shieldless.. Otherwise the Byeo sounds good.. but that 418 difference vs large mobs is.. huge..

[DrAzzy]

I think you need a very large incentive to sacrifice a shield, and I'm not sure that increase is sufficient for that. I mean maybe against piddling weak MVPs, where you're just trying to lower bomb costs? But where's the fun in killing those?! Nothing where you'll be taking damage justifies losing shield imo.

Edited by DrAzzy, 18 March 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Joaco]

Yeah, you're right man.. Unless I have an RG to sac me all the way, it doesn't worth it.. So the second best weapon (well, 3rd if we count Mjolnir) is the +12 Byeo EA4 x2, right?
What about headgears and accs? Not for resistances as you said before. LoD + AK card wont be possible if I use Byeo, but does it worth it without the card? What about EMH you mentioned? I could get a +9 one, and I think the dark pinguicula is the best card for that hat, not sure though. Mid one, BDM good for bombing or which one? Pirate Dagger or change it?
About the accs, if i'll use elemental orlean's gown I don't have to gear Phen so.. Is Buwaya + Bakonawa Tattoo a good combo for a bomber? +7% ATK, +7% MATK and -7% fixed cast time (that affects the cast time of AB, right?)
Thanks

[Joaco]

Nobody replied me
I got like 10 Orleans Gown, and I was thinking on making elemental armors.. Should I make all of them with the exception of the GR?

Swordfish card (water)
Sandman card (earth)
Pasana card (fire)
Evil Druid card (undead)
Dokebi card (wind)
Bathory card (shadow)
Argiope card (poison)
Angeling card (holy)

I'm currently doing just ET's, but maybe in a future, when I get a decent gear I'll probably kill MvP's outside the tower.. What do you think about the armors, are all of them necessary?

[kasshin]

It's up to you whether you want to make a bunch of orleans and whether you have an MVP to use them for. Do note that orleans and phen both will not add extra cast time to acid bomb since it's all fixed cast. Also, you might want unfrozen fire and unfrozen wind for some MVPs, where you'll have to use a phen.

If you have sacrament at all times (which you should at ET), any other % fixed cast time gears will be useless as sacrament overrides it and only the largest fixed cast time value is used (50% with sacrament) and they do not stack.

BDM and dark pingu mid should be pretty similar for damage as mentioned in another thread. EMH and Pirate dagger are fine.

[DrAzzy]

You don't need orleans for all elements - don't make elemental armor without something that justifies it.

You do not need it at all for undead (it's no good in PVP/WoE in renewal, and in PVM, bathory is better in every way), and I don't think there's anything in renewal that warrants poison (I made poison armor pre-renewal so I could tank centipedes on my HP with DR on without getting 1-shotted by their poison attack, which used to do upwards of 10k - and there's nothing AFAIK that does a poison attack that painful)... And I'm not sure anything with an earth attack that hurts so much you need earth armor exists either.

[shpongled]

Why do you have 100 int when you say it's an MVP build? You care about AB damage, not CC/Hell Plant damage.
1 str adds almost twice as much as 1 int for AB damage (and 3 luk = 2 int, which will surprise a lot of you). Once you get that 90 int for HBP bonus, further int is not justified on an MVP build.

96+4 vit. Don't need more than that.

For optimizing damage of acid bomb, 105 base str, 41 base luk, 90 base int is the optimal distribution of that number of status points (and the 90 int only because of the HBP bonus). You can get that with 90 base dex for HBP and 96+4 vit and have a few status points left.

It's time to put away the thanksgiving leftovers. It's march. Turkey hat has no place on a genetic.
If you want more survivability, make some +7 AK helms! 10% boss reduction that stacks additively with alice shield (50% reduc instead of 40% - meaning you take about 17% less with the AKH than without). I card them with the ele resist cards and pair them up with glasses with same. Combined with the resist from valk shield, ele proof potion, and a KBC, you can get really nice reduction like this. And AK helms are cheap for some reason.
If you don't want more survivability, dark pingicula evil marching hat.

+HP armor should, generally speaking, never be worn or made.
For MVP genetic, you need a fire armor, a water armor, a shadow armor, and an unfrozen typhoon armor. Slotted fire armor is actually cheaper than pasana card last I checked. The details of these armors aren't a big deal. Unless you can afford a second KBC WDB (see below), in which case you want them to be orleans gowns so you can wear 2x KBC acc with them. A more extreme approach is to put the elemental cards into +12 bakonawa scale armor (bayani), for the +6% boss reduction - I have difficulty justifying that sort of expenditure though.

Diablo rings are completely inappropriate for the genetic class.
Water Drop Brooch is my accessory of choice. One phen, one with kafra blossom card in it. Or two with KBC if you can afford it (but you still need a phen one, for when you need to use the wind unfrozen, which you often will).
WDB's because lots of MVPs use water skills, and they're often hard to tank (waterball for example).

For skills, be sure to get at least level 1 bloodsucker so you can 1-shot the plant def monsters in the malaya instances.

Go with fire expansion tree.

why are you suggesting to build luk, but the stat guides stickied on this forum show no luk at all for mvp builds? i thought you were in charge of this part of the forums? shouldnt misinformation be taken care of to avoid messed up builds (especially with the removal of the free resets coming). im currently biochem about to change to gen and i have no idea what to do with my build. i wanna stack str and int for cart cannon and acid bomb damage, but that leaves me with either low vit and no health to survive or slow cast times because of low dex. whats a good balance of stats for level 100?

i was thinking something along the lines of:

str 70
agi 1
vit 35
int 90
dex 70
luk 1

Edited by shpongled, 03 April 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[DrAzzy]

why are you suggesting to build luk, but the stat guides stickied on this forum show no luk at all for mvp builds? i thought you were in charge of this part of the forums? shouldnt misinformation be taken care of to avoid messed up builds (especially with the removal of the free resets coming). im currently biochem about to change to gen and i have no idea what to do with my build. i wanna stack str and int for cart cannon and acid bomb damage, but that leaves me with either low vit and no health to survive or slow cast times because of low dex. whats a good balance of stats for level 100?

The guides stickied were written by people who hadn't run the numbers for the influence of luk on AB damage. Because both atk and matk are part of the formula, luk adds more than people seemed to expect.

I don't have time to rewrite other people's guides. I'll gladly sticky a better guide if one is written, but I don't have time to replace the old guides with new ones.

I can't comment on how to do stats at 100, I don't remember what I did. You can of course calculate the damage using the iW calc, or compare AB/CC damage via the gen comparison calc in my sig.

[shpongled]

The guides stickied were written by people who hadn't run the numbers for the influence of luk on AB damage. Because both atk and matk are part of the formula, luk adds more than people seemed to expect.

I don't have time to rewrite other people's guides. I'll gladly sticky a better guide if one is written, but I don't have time to replace the old guides with new ones.

I can't comment on how to do stats at 100, I don't remember what I did. You can of course calculate the damage using the iW calc, or compare AB/CC damage via the gen comparison calc in my sig.

youre on here all the time. you should just draft up a basic guide real quick on the 2 different builds. it would be much more constructive to have a basic build guide thats only a couple sentences but accurate then one thats a long page of inaccurate information. especially now that they are removing free resets, we really need updated guides badly ><

[Joaco]

First of all, I do have unfrozen fire armor, but.. in which cases do I need it and what about unfrozen wind armor?
Secondly, elemental orleans.. Isn't Undead when fighting Drake, Osiris and Dark Lord?
Pasana for GTB, Moonlight, Cenia and Ifrit? Dokebi for Mistress and White Lady? Sandman for Maya, Turtle General, Orc Lord, Orc Hero and Amon Ra? Bathory for Samurai Specter, Doppel, Bapho, Fallen, Phraoh, Atroce and Entweihen Crothen? And Angeling for Valkyrie Randgris? (I thought she was wind.. dafuq) Or maybe I'm wrong, for example the most powerful skill of Drake is Water Ball, so Swordfish would work too..
Reading what you Azzy said, Poison, Undead and Earth are not useful now. So which of the rest elemental armors do I need the most for ET? Pasana, Batho and what else?

@shpongled: If he says he can't because he has no time, then to push him.. If he had the time, he would.

Finally, the best headgear set is +9 EMH (Dark Ping), BDM and Pirate Dagger, right? Btw, I bought an Anti-sleep Mini-glasses when fighting Beelze..