36 replies to this topic

[neko09]

I'm planning to reset and get a new set of skills,
old: got ES, CR, CL, JF, and comet for release
new: with CR, CL, JF, and comet for release + WI and Recognized spell but no ES

-Is it okay to leave out ES? (cause it's got divest and all that? TBH I rarely use it)
-I haven't tried recognized spell, so I've no idea how useful it is-->please could you give some comments about the skill
-What level of WI should I aim for (if ever I am going to get recog.spell)? As well as recog.spell?
-I haven't tried TV: is it good or is comet better? I understand I can't go comet/release if I get TV.

Thanks so much, everyone who'll comment.

[Wizard]

- Recognized spell is quite important for any Warlock that have an over-upgraded weapon (if you don't, still is quite good to have, but you won't get as much benefit as you are suppose to).

What it does is mainly give you an overall MAX MATK depending on your MATK difference (base and weapon), the highest the weapon MATK is, the better... but also, the less difference between those 2, is even better... the difference between those 2 plays an important role as well (as far as I've been testing a while ago).

- ES is good... but not good enough... In WoE, most experienced players will have "coat" available, hence divest effect won't do anything to them... it may affect regular players thou.

- WI is a pretty good disable skill... I would recommend 5 or nothing lol. It's quite good and more towards team play.

- TV is another good skill, it's mainly a snipe-like skill that with the right gear, is able to 1 shot most classes... but the 15 seconds cooldown is kinda a downside (it can be avoided if you "release" the TV by using the book). It goes well with Radius 3 (since its a sniper skill anyway).

TV and Comet, both are good depending on your stats/gear. If you can afford over-upgrade gear, any of those can be useful if you know how to use them/target properly... the choice is yours, I would say, it depends on what your guild needs most... if your guild have lot of 1 on 1 skills, go for the AoE (Comet), otherwise, go for TV... try to complement it with your guild since as you know, WoE is not a 1 player event.

Edited by Campitor, 04 April 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Wizard]

TV Warlock (2nd part of the video):

Edited by Wizard, 04 April 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[GuardianTK]

Earth Strain is still useful for removing a group of players' Accessories. FCP does not protect against Divest Accessory status.

[Rirezz]

Lower level White Imprison works just fine in a pinch. It has no cast time, so lower success rates just mean you spend another half second trying to imprison someone. Not ideal, of course, but definitely workable.

[neko09]

Okay, thanks so much for your comments, I made a skill tree and this is how it'd look like:
http://irowiki.org/~...qQqnaOefjOqnIn1


If I were to get ES, I would leave out JF totally and get this tree:
http://irowiki.org/~...qnqRaOefjOqnIn1
Though it's quite frustrating that it's only level4 :[ where should I remove a skill point from?

For a woe-ing warlock, JF is useless right? Is the 2nd tree better then? Thanks again!

EDIT: is WI a nice way to stop a recaller? :3

Edited by neko09, 04 April 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Nero89]

If I were to get ES, I would leave out JF totally and get this tree:
http://irowiki.org/~...qnqRaOefjOqnIn1
Though it's quite frustrating that it's only level4 :[ where should I remove a skill point from?

Hi there, regarding the 2nd skill build..

You can limit the CR to CR2 which should allow you to max the ES. Truth be told, with the recent patch coming in, ES doesn't work anymore to strip anyone whose inside the WI, so the usage of WI is now limited to only trapping people (until the next kRO Warlock skills update coming to iRO).

Since your question is, is it a nice way to stop recaller, hmm, I doubt that since recall cant be obstructed unless the recaller killed (I can't confirm much since I did not took a recall killer/disabler duty anymore). But what is great about the WI5 is that, you can completely stopped a mech attempt to SD the whole team of yours if you are using Comet build. The point is to disable him completely, even if u managed to WI him while he done with the SD cast, the damage won't be done to your party.

PS: I see you put the Recog Spell 3 there, which is not quite a good idea since its best to limit it at level 1 (2 if you have good survivability and can swap defense and attacking equip pretty fast). Its a buff to max the MATK difference but having more will not going to increase the MATK, its only the length of the buff, which can be recast pretty often.

PS2: Freezing Spell 5, if Im not mistaken, will only enable you to store upto 4 High Spells (CR, ES, CL), and only 2 Ultimate Spells (Comet, TV-[does this needs to be stored much?]). While at Freezing Spell 4, you can store 3 High Spells and 2 Ultimate Spells. See what Im suggesting here? FS4 is the maximum that I would recommend to you, since you need another point for the skill below.

PS3: Marsh of Abyss. Even at level 1, its a great debuff skill that when properly used to opponent in WOE, should makes the job easier. You can debuff the speed of AB, RK, Ranger, RG, or any character you would like. Compliment the slow debuff with Quagmire5, ES for unhid hidden people, SE for stone curse any char or group.

Um I won't touch about 2nd class skills since its not your concern. But this is what I get the rough idea from what you desire your warlock going to be in the future.

Re-assessed the skill build, Comet-Disabler
http://irowiki.org/~...qnrsaOefdBnaIn1
Requirement:
Good~High upgrade and equip (Comet + Recog Spell + Release usage)
MoA + Quagmire + SE + ES combo
Mech-trapping with WI5
WI1 for self saving
Triple release ES in tight corners
CL strings

Hope this WALL OF TEXT helps. Q^Q

[Rirezz]

WIing recallers is a very good strategy, but you must be ready to chase after them and break the imprison if it turns out they've already casted recall. My first response to a snapping recaller is to try and WI them, because there's literally nothing else you can do. Be ready to remove WI if they've casted recall, though, since otherwise it will be hard for anyone else to stop said recall. Also be ready to remove WI once your allies have surrounded the recaller.

I'll reiterate that having 5 WI is not absolutely necessary. It's nice (and the duration gives you the ability to juggle more people in multiple prisons), but you don't have to have it.

WI is also a really good skill to make yourself a decoy. Walk up near an enemy crowd and WI yourself; there's a good chance several people will attack you, especially if they're worried of your stasis.

For freezing spell, do the math: It's 4 extra points per Freezing Spell level.

I am not an ES fan myself, and I have level 1 storm gust. You also don't really need 3 radius; I dump unused points there, but it's not a must. I would get marsh in your case. Or stasis. Stasis is so good once you're used to doing it.

[Nero89]

I. Have. A. Stasis. Friend. Now.

Hehe.. yes, if you really consider to be the best n worst disabler ever (both to your party n opponent), take Stasis 5.
Stasis is still the best global silence skill. Makes you the prime target for every opposing team that sees u. ^^
I think Stasis name should be changed to STFU, so that when u casted it, it would appeared, "STFU !!"

[neko09]

Hi there, regarding the 2nd skill build..

You can limit the CR to CR2 which should allow you to max the ES. Truth be told, with the recent patch coming in, ES doesn't work anymore to strip anyone whose inside the WI, so the usage of WI is now limited to only trapping people (until the next kRO Warlock skills update coming to iRO).

Since your question is, is it a nice way to stop recaller, hmm, I doubt that since recall cant be obstructed unless the recaller killed (I can't confirm much since I did not took a recall killer/disabler duty anymore). But what is great about the WI5 is that, you can completely stopped a mech attempt to SD the whole team of yours if you are using Comet build. The point is to disable him completely, even if u managed to WI him while he done with the SD cast, the damage won't be done to your party.

PS: I see you put the Recog Spell 3 there, which is not quite a good idea since its best to limit it at level 1 (2 if you have good survivability and can swap defense and attacking equip pretty fast). Its a buff to max the MATK difference but having more will not going to increase the MATK, its only the length of the buff, which can be recast pretty often.

PS2: Freezing Spell 5, if Im not mistaken, will only enable you to store upto 4 High Spells (CR, ES, CL), and only 2 Ultimate Spells (Comet, TV-[does this needs to be stored much?]). While at Freezing Spell 4, you can store 3 High Spells and 2 Ultimate Spells. See what Im suggesting here? FS4 is the maximum that I would recommend to you, since you need another point for the skill below.

PS3: Marsh of Abyss. Even at level 1, its a great debuff skill that when properly used to opponent in WOE, should makes the job easier. You can debuff the speed of AB, RK, Ranger, RG, or any character you would like. Compliment the slow debuff with Quagmire5, ES for unhid hidden people, SE for stone curse any char or group.

Um I won't touch about 2nd class skills since its not your concern. But this is what I get the rough idea from what you desire your warlock going to be in the future.

Re-assessed the skill build, Comet-Disabler
http://irowiki.org/~...qnrsaOefdBnaIn1
Requirement:
Good~High upgrade and equip (Comet + Recog Spell + Release usage)
MoA + Quagmire + SE + ES combo
Mech-trapping with WI5
WI1 for self saving
Triple release ES in tight corners
CL strings

Hope this WALL OF TEXT helps. Q^Q

WIing recallers is a very good strategy, but you must be ready to chase after them and break the imprison if it turns out they've already casted recall. My first response to a snapping recaller is to try and WI them, because there's literally nothing else you can do. Be ready to remove WI if they've casted recall, though, since otherwise it will be hard for anyone else to stop said recall. Also be ready to remove WI once your allies have surrounded the recaller.

I'll reiterate that having 5 WI is not absolutely necessary. It's nice (and the duration gives you the ability to juggle more people in multiple prisons), but you don't have to have it.

WI is also a really good skill to make yourself a decoy. Walk up near an enemy crowd and WI yourself; there's a good chance several people will attack you, especially if they're worried of your stasis.

For freezing spell, do the math: It's 4 extra points per Freezing Spell level.

I am not an ES fan myself, and I have level 1 storm gust. You also don't really need 3 radius; I dump unused points there, but it's not a must. I would get marsh in your case. Or stasis. Stasis is so good once you're used to doing it.

Well this is just awesome thanks for all this info (and all the posts before) definitely helped a lot, and that tree yeah based on all of your comments I think I'm gonna follow that.

As for WI5, I guess you are correct that maxing it is not utterly necessary, but I'm thinking where to put the points if I were to remove it from WI, is getting a higher level of Marsh of Abyss better? If I were to cast it on a snapping recaller, I guess -30% movement would help a lot right? I'd like to try it all out but only 1 reset is free, the rest is 50m.
Thanks again! :3

[Rirezz]

Higher level Marsh is always good, I'd probably take it over WI. Marsh doesn't fail, is much harder to remove, and once you've marshed someone you've basically kept them immobile for its full duration. It's not useful for recallers, though, since they'll just snap around anyway. The stat penalty is significant, though.

[Nero89]

Yes, the MoA's max usefulness is when you helping other members to kill the breakers on emp, which should reduce their stats n ASPD on the emp. If you are really concern about the recaller or snapping sura, the reduce stats doesnt help much since its just increase a little bit delay on their snap animation, and not really going to stop them from snapping away at all. One of the trick to AOE slow on the breakers of emp is to include Quagmire 5 on top of emp too so that you can double the slow effect, which really helpful when you want to SIenna Excrate/MoA them after that. Sometime, an SG1 is more useful to the breaker since somehow, some ppl tend to default that when they breaking the emp, especially GR'd WOE Suit wearer GX.

If you are in duty to stop recaller/snapping sura, let other sura do the job. Your sniping job will highly maximized at TVing SDing mechanic. Sura is a probable target, even for CL strings, but not that quite important for WL.

[Wizard]

Earth Strain is still useful for removing a group of players' Accessories. FCP does not protect against Divest Accessory status.

Not quite... if you consider removing accessories useful in WoE when you can be doing something else, be my guest.

Okay, thanks so much for your comments, I made a skill tree and this is how it'd look like:
http://irowiki.org/~...qQqnaOefjOqnIn1


If I were to get ES, I would leave out JF totally and get this tree:
http://irowiki.org/~...qnqRaOefjOqnIn1
Though it's quite frustrating that it's only level4 :[ where should I remove a skill point from?

For a woe-ing warlock, JF is useless right? Is the 2nd tree better then? Thanks again!

EDIT: is WI a nice way to stop a recaller? :3

WI is a good and bad way to stop recallers... most of them have GTB to begin with, hence there's few things a warlock can do against them.

WI may not stop the recall but just protect him from any damage while recalling... it was like that before unless something changed now.

I. Have. A. Stasis. Friend. Now.

Hehe.. yes, if you really consider to be the best n worst disabler ever (both to your party n opponent), take Stasis 5.
Stasis is still the best global silence skill. Makes you the prime target for every opposing team that sees u. ^^
I think Stasis name should be changed to STFU, so that when u casted it, it would appeared, "STFU !!"

Stasis got nerfed and buffed at the same time... its a good spell to use defensive/offensive. Personally, I'm not quite interested in that kind of spells since it makes fights quite boring... it's mainly used for guilds/people who can't win in a face to face fight.

[Nero89]

it's mainly used for guilds/people who can't win in a face to face fight.

well, at least I try to max my duties ! XD imoWiz is such a nerd, tricky, noobish WL with lots of gaps to learn and unlock her potential hehe!

[Minsyy]

Stasis got nerfed and buffed at the same time... its a good spell to use defensive/offensive. Personally, I'm not quite interested in that kind of spells since it makes fights quite boring... it's mainly used for guilds/people who can't win in a face to face fight.

funny how you love to use stasis then doesnt it?

and I still strongly agree that divesting the accessories on chance actually is a perk you need to use more often. considering lots of builds revolve around accessories aswell
just think about RKs who need the spell3/spell3 RWCs. or Priests who use double BR to get 100mdef.

just naming two which powers you can decimate when the accessories are taken off. reconsider the usefulness of the skill.

Edited by Minsyy, 08 April 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Wizard]

funny how you love to use stasis then doesnt it?

and I still strongly agree that divesting the accessories on chance actually is a perk you need to use more often. considering lots of builds revolve around accessories aswell
just think about RKs who need the spell3/spell3 RWCs. or Priests who use double BR to get 100mdef.

just naming two which powers you can decimate when the accessories are taken off. reconsider the usefulness of the skill.

Yah lol... well, indeed it's a good spell... it can pretty much disable an entire guild if used properly, hence it is a pretty good skill hands down... but as personal preference, I kinda don't like it because it takes away the fun to have a pretty good fight.

Remember that by using ES, you need to be close to the target since the range for the spell is quite narrow... I used to play have the spell, don't get me wrong. But somehow I was doing something else beside using it, hence as personal preference, decided to drop it and get something more useful instead.

If you have time to use ES on an RK, you sure have time to WI him and let the chaser masq him while in WI... about priest, you can easily do the same or kill him/her/it. The chances fighting a priest class is quite slim since they are usually behind the vanguard line, while you somehow should be in the same position in your guild.

well, at least I try to max my duties ! XD imoWiz is such a nerd, tricky, noobish WL with lots of gaps to learn and unlock her potential hehe!

Perhaps... but as personal preference, I don't like it... it makes people just making alt acc for stasis use only, same way as mechs for SD only, leaving behind the real meaning of using a class... don't you think?

[GuardianTK]

Not quite... if you consider removing accessories useful in WoE when you can be doing something else, be my guest.

It pretty much depends on the situation, but Earth Strain is basically far from useless. You make it sound like you'll never use it for something useful, even though you take it as "good...but not good enough," which is actually not the case. RWC Accessories, Dark Rosaries for 100mdef, Hiding accessories, Megs, Bris, etc are extremely important to certain power players. This is especially true if you're precasting against players relying on their Accessories to make their build work. If you know they're wearing them, Earth Strain is your best option aside from spamming Jack Frost while you're precasting. It can be extremely useful for keeping Chasers from approaching your precast in Tunneling Hide mode during WoE. I can't count how many times I've managed to penetrate a precast by myself on my Chaser to get up to some RK's to strip their mounts just because Warlocks weren't using Earth Strain instead of spamming Jack Frost.

And please keep in mind that developing guilds are not going to have all the classes you want to have.

Edited by GuardianTK, 08 April 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Wizard]

It pretty much depends on the situation, but Earth Strain is basically far from useless. You make it sound like you'll never use it for something useful, even though you take it as "good...but not good enough," which is actually not the case. RWC Accessories, Dark Rosaries for 100mdef, Hiding accessories, Megs, Bris, etc are extremely important to certain power players. This is especially true if you're precasting against players relying on their Accessories to make their build work. If you know they're wearing them, Earth Strain is your best option aside from spamming Jack Frost while you're precasting. It can be extremely useful for keeping Chasers from approaching your precast in Tunneling Hide mode during WoE. I can't count how many times I've managed to penetrate a precast by myself on my Chaser to get up to some RK's to strip their mounts just because Warlocks weren't using Earth Strain instead of spamming Jack Frost.

And please keep in mind that developing guilds are not going to have all the classes you want to have.

ES is not useless at all but more towards the "far from optimal" kind of skill... It is good to release when you are in a 1 on 1 situation or kamikaze mode... other than that, it's quite ineffective since you can be doing something else, plus the range is quite narrow to be casted from a precast line... as I mentioned before, the situations in where I was using it were quite few... but I have seen warlocks using it left and right, in some cases, w/o having a knowledge about its range hence becoming quite useless.

Jack Frost, same as Frost Misty, is not a useful skill anymore, for warlocks that is, mainly because its range... kinda follow the same problem as ES. Of course, this is biased since I haven't find any good situation in where u will get a chance to actually use these skills properly.

Of course, have in mind that my thoughts and reasoning is based in a competitive war situation... in where u can be casting and dead next second... hence you are forced to choose and react in matter of seconds with the best way of counter the enemy before dying or just precasting leaving the defense to other players... team work.

[Wizard]

PS: There are some HW skills that are quite useful... in fact, more than SG lol. Kinda the reason why other servers use them instead of SG.

[GuardianTK]

And I'm glad you admit it as being biased advice on your end that happens to be geared towards high-end organized and prepared guilds. If you're giving advice, try to look at things from different directions. You are supposed to be the person who solves equations all the time, right? If a variable is missing, what do you do to balance the equation without the variable? You compensate to find the missing element by adjusting the equation to balance the equation. If I'm missing a Shadow Chaser for WoE, I'm most certainly going to need people to do different things to compensate the missing key.

[Wizard]

And I'm glad you admit it as being biased advice on your end that happens to be geared towards high-end organized and prepared guilds. If you're giving advice, try to look at things from different directions. You are supposed to be the person who solves equations all the time, right? If a variable is missing, what do you do to balance the equation without the variable? You compensate to find the missing element by adjusting the equation to balance the equation. If I'm missing a Shadow Chaser for WoE, I'm most certainly going to need people to do different things to compensate the missing key.

You should always aim towards the high end organized war if you ever want to get better at this class... giving advice for low tier battles is quite pointless even if that's the environment you are in... that's as personal perspective that is... one should always aim to get better, not to just stay in the same level as everyone else...

I haven't given any advice just yet... I have been commenting about the skills and sharing personal experience, that's about it lol. Well-organized guilds are mainly based of well-organized players... if you aim to become one, you should play like one... I don't see anything related to equations lol, since there's no missing variable or whatever you are claiming of... The facts are there, the OP is asking about some skills and I'm replying to him by sharing personal experience, which is the best way to back up my argument, as I mentioned before, those are biased replies since its based on personal experience, nothing more, nothing less...

Even if your guild is missing people, the fact that you have to compensate for them doesn't necessarily means you have to use spells that are far from effective to "compensate"... it is a team work after all and by that, everyone should be able to compensate... do you catch my drift?

To re-state my point... Earth Strain is good, there's no doubt about it, but for a competitive point of view, it lacks that "punch" and usefulness as other spells have... it also has to do with the gears available at that time. Remember, mage classes are more "gear-oriented" that any other class, and if you lack the gears necessary to break that 100mdef barrier or the 57% demi human resistance barrier, you may as well work towards the support part and by that, ES will be one of the few usable skills at your disposal (which is quite good against low tier guild that have no genetic for coat).

Hope everything is clear now and by no means I was making any assumptions regardless the guild or player.

[GuardianTK]

When I was talking about a missing variable, I meant classes a guild might be missing in any given situation. At least you have finally contributed useful information now with that post by considering what may or may not be present. If you are going to give "comments," you should make it sound like that in the first place by saying it's by your experience and your own opinion. Then again, you don't need to mention that if you are looking at things from different angles.

There are people who tend to take things quite seriously on these forums from time to time. If you give only advice that is geared towards the largest and more established guilds out there and don't consider smaller guilds in place of that, then I don't think your comments are accurate at all when you're not even counting smaller guilds in the picture.

As a last note, it always depends on the situation. One comment is not going to overrule all situations.

Edited by GuardianTK, 08 April 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Wizard]

When I was talking about a missing variable, I meant classes a guild might be missing in any given situation. At least you have finally contributed useful information now with that post by considering what may or may not be present. If you are going to give "comments," you should make it sound like that in the first place by saying it's by your experience and your own opinion. Then again, you don't need to mention that if you are looking at things from different angles.

There are people who tend to take things quite seriously on these forums from time to time. If you give only advice that is geared towards the largest and more established guilds out there and don't consider smaller guilds in place of that, then I don't think your comments are accurate at all when you're not even counting smaller guilds in the picture.

As a last note, it always depends on the situation. One comment is not going to overrule all situations.

Oh I see... that's what u meant by missing variable... but with all these, I have yet to see any contribution from your side at all... the comment about ES is indeed one of the possible scenarios but it won't suffice as a possible argument to enlighten people about the usefulness of the skill. The best way, in this situation, is to give examples as well as personal experience, something that just someone who play warlock for WoE can contribute with and I believe, you don't play warlock for WoE do you? the difference in what you "might have do" and what you "should do" depends on each of us since everyone has a different playstyle and by that, different perspective... are you still following me? Therefore, regardless of my comments, at least those are more accurate than the one who doesn't even play the class to begin with...

I have always comment the same way for years and have yet to see any complains about it lol, is not the way I make it sound but the way the receiver "wants" to understand from it... I strongly believe that in communication, the sender and receiver have to share their work, hence why my way of talk is always ambiguous and some cases hard to understand since I usually give enough information for the receiver to come out with their own conclusions w/o me to pull their hand to reach a conclusion I may manipulate. If people tend to take my comments seriously or not, it's up to them, I just limit myself to comment and support my ideas with some background information in form of personal experience or calculations... the usefulness of the comments/advice will be determinate by the receiver that will have to work with the information obtained and come out with their own conclusions.

Lastly, my comments was toward tier one WoE situations, but remember that not everyone started playing in a big guild... I do have my fair experience in small guilds, therefore my comments can't be labeled as not being considering low tier guilds, to the contrary, I am using the experience from those old times and the one from now to express my comments and back them up. I do know how is to struggle in a 10 or 20 ppl guild against high tier guilds and because of that, I'm able to comment about it... always having the best results for me from those 2 scenarios...

Hope its understandable now... =)

[Wizard]

Ohh almost forgot lol.

If you go Tetra Vortex route, your skills will be quite limited since TV need too many "requirements" in order to get points in it... If you decide to try TV, you can use this as reference:



And this video... in which you can see Comet build first half and TV build second half...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOFLIYFNeiA

Edited by Wizard, 08 April 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[GuardianTK]

When I mean look at things from different perspectives, I'd like to add that it's in regards to builds and classes available at the time. Not everyone is going to play a support Warlock. Actually, there are a lot who'd refuse to play a support Warlock now with the Stasis nerf in a high tier WoE situation. I'd rather just alternate between spamming Sienna and Jack Frost.

You're also making the assumption that I have not played a Warlock, especially in WoE. I have played a Warlock before in the past for WoE. Not on my own account, but on another person's Warlock in their place. I have to say it's pretty insulting to assume another player doesn't know what they're talking about by tagging them as not having played a class in a certain situation. Personally I just prefer maining a Chaser for WoE. It's more fun for "me." WoE just isn't fun in my opinion if everyone is forced into one build on their class. That is the kind of content you had in your first post in this thread, which happened to have that certain portion of it edited out by Campitor, because you said something akin to "everyone uses my build in my guild" or some such.

I have nothing more to say beyond this post though, because you're finally coming out with more legit advice now on your own after your first post in this topic. There's different builds you can go with as you've mentioned. TV build is one of them. In that regard, you'll have Earth Strain maxed with a TV build anyways. What are you going to do as a TV Warlock if you're waiting on a cooldown while precasting? Personally I'd make use of Earth Strain while having some Jack Frost and Sienna E. spams mixed in there when helping with a precast. I don't know about you, but Earth Straining hidden characters is a pretty good idea, even if it's at a narrow space. You need to make use of any "useful" skill. You shouldn't throw them out because they're not "optimal," because there is no such thing as "optimal for any situation."

And yes, I saw another thread locked because of the way you comment. You should be more careful with how you make comments to prevent that from happening in the future.