33 replies to this topic

[CharAznable]

I'm mainly asking people who are in average setting. people with gods and what not I really don't care how they will train their character because they will find a way to do it anyway. I'm more concerned about people with eden gear, unenchanted grimtooth, and people with undergear.

Reason I'm asking this is that since after this so-called Ninja nerf, lots of people are sad because of losing Throw Kunai, and such skill like Kunai Explosion. But, I'd like to suggest fun and effective ways to level without having crazy set up and all. Before I proceed, I want to know your difficulties in hunting, it doesn't matter if its Turn in party, or soloing, or mobbing, even meleeing with ninja is all welcome. as i will be more available to iRo to produce more constructive guide(also made my ninja 150 like 2 ~ 3 weeks ago) on Kage/Oboro, I'd like to hear what kind of ninja you guys are using mainly, and what are the difficulties you guys are facing and such. I've been testing with Petal, Kunai Exploson, Kunai Splash, and so on but still trying to figure out hybrid kage and stuff.

This will help me realize, and also come up with solid guide towards the needs of Expanded Class community so if you guys have suggestion, or question, please leave it here so i could work on it starting may.

Edited by CharAznable, 09 April 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Facekiller]

1. having to switch all 10 charms on maps dealing with different element monsters... before you could just hotkey the different kunai elements to switch on the fly

2. the delay after Petal swirl is kinda a pain

3. magic is slow in casting and interuptable and only has 3 elements and only 6 targetable skills and are weak

4. the price of gears to make magic useful are ridiculous

5. Ninja have very low HP without basing all their gears around increasing HP

6. ninja skill trees are based around certain key skills taking up skill points that could be better invested

7. Ninja skills have bizarre stat requirements making alot of hybrids not viable...

unless you got a few hundred million to spend on gears ninja are very underpowered...

[PedroProplayer]

I had totaly given up on Damage Builds altogether before the nerf even and concentrated on making mine into a WoE Support Kagerou. The patch hurt me in the sense that now I can't help killing monsters but my character usefulness is the same.

[CharAznable]

1. having to switch all 10 charms on maps dealing with different element monsters... before you could just hotkey the different kunai elements to switch on the fly

2. the delay after Petal swirl is kinda a pain

3. magic is slow in casting and interuptable and only has 3 elements and only 6 targetable skills and are weak

4. the price of gears to make magic useful are ridiculous

5. Ninja have very low HP without basing all their gears around increasing HP

6. ninja skill trees are based around certain key skills taking up skill points that could be better invested

7. Ninja skills have bizarre stat requirements making alot of hybrids not viable...

unless you got a few hundred million to spend on gears ninja are very underpowered...

This sounding more of complains then questioning but I can answer.

As you know, Most useful magic skill for ninja in terms of AoE is Blazing Shield/Exploding Dragon. with minimum setting of using two +4 Mikatsuki would still do nice dmg with Distorted Crescent(Oboro). Since 124+ would hunt at Scaraba and that would be most efficient place to grind, Fire element skill will greatly enhance your dmg. There are also way to one~two shot bradium golem and such if you prefer 1 on 1 hunting style and its totally viable.

You can Also mix Petal/Kunai Explosion or Kunai Splash to finish the rest of the hp (I was able to deal about 24k~26k using Kunai Splash using proper setting that isnt costing over 100m)

Slow casting from magic can be reduced by Mikatuki and also from malangdo enchant. Also, Using Cicada active->hide or shadow hiding->shadow leap->illusion shadow->blazing shield->exploding dragon combo/ or simply cicada->illusion shadow->blazing shield->exploding dragon combo works just fine. if you want to hunt at high tier hunting spot, you have to prepare yourself with right gear, and need to invest your money.
i think 6 target able skill is a lot to choose from actually.

I think "useful" is totally self determined. mikatsuki for example cost about 6m? i think. i could find some with exotic enchant with socket, and +4 upgrade for 1m too. thats easily farmable in an hour or two(1m) Vidar Boots which i use myself also, only costing about 400k and it gives 9% mhp and 9% msp. special ninja suit costing about 2.5m slotted. eden mant gives you decent immune with no cost at all, just a quest you have to do(10% neutral). theres a lot of alternative you can go with and it is really shallow minded to say to make character usable, you need massive money.

HP issue is something all expanded class is encountering with. And this would be the only thing i'd agree with you in terms of complaining about it. But, since there have been no change since Dec 2011, we have to make it due, right? so, i use Large HP pot as default. its 34k average on ragial and it last for 8 min. since we have pure soul, kage/oboro don't really use pots right? and i usually use 100~200 white pot per 30 min thats 120~150k on other class I think. maybe less. so its actually cheaper to use large pot and use pure soul as ur healing skill. So normally, i have around 24k~28k(100vit) hp. thats not that bad right? i mean i do use glorious suit but that could be easily replaced by peco peco carded armor or goibne armor(10% mhp +2vit) which is only 200k. with cicada/mirror image/shadow hiding/shadow leap/illusion shadow, we have more escaping skill than GX, or Chaser at this point. so utilizing large pot, and these skills will greatily increase ninja's stability

issue with skill trees are encountered by many other classes such as GX, Gunslinger, and many more. Sura uses almost 36+ skill point to just get revit and cant really get any other skill.

hybrid is totally viable where there are many examples being done in kRo, and works nicely and fun to play. people go with 50 str/int 50/dex80/vit90 and gradually work up to their taste.

Edited by CharAznable, 09 April 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Scuba]

Basically you're forced to make a magic Oboro. Without at least some form of godly equip you may as well not make the class at all. Even though godly gear can be exploited to make the skills very strong, without them they are incredibly feeble.

Magic build is completely viable if you have decent gear though. As long as you use the Oboro buff for matk. Two spell4 x2 daggers would be a good start, to reduce your cast time by 40% as well as the Spell 3 RWC accessories. Combined with a KK CoD for 30% more and 16th night you have instant cast. Max out the magic tree and level anywhere where you can take advantage of wind, water, or fire spells.

With maxed out fire charms you could do like 10k per tile with blaze shield in scaraba. From there its like 136-150 grindfest.

Edited by Scuba, 09 April 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[CharAznable]

Basically you're forced to make a magic Oboro. Without at least some form of godly equip you may as well not make the class at all. Even though godly gear can be exploited to make the skills very strong, without them they are incredibly feeble.

Magic build is completely viable if you have decent gear though. As long as you use the Oboro buff for matk. Two spell4 x2 daggers would be a good start, to reduce your cast time by 40% as well as the Spell 3 RWC accessories. Combined with a KK CoD for 30% more and 16th night you have instant cast. Max out the magic tree and level anywhere where you can take advantage of wind, water, or fire spells.

With maxed out fire charms you could do like 10k per tile with blaze shield in scaraba. From there its like 136-150 grindfest.

I don't think many other player could afford KK CoD for 30%. and Also 4/4 spell for baze since it takes 8 coins per try to enchant. Also Spell 3 RWC isn't defaul option for many among the players. Instead of using those expansive gears, i was gravitating more towards to use combo skill such as cicada active->illusion shadow->blazing shield on decoy->exploding dragon to maximize your stability.

i've seen blazing shield doing 2k~3k per hit or more. which means it will do 20k~30k total. Blazing shield is really good magic ninja skill that are not popular among ninjas i think.

[Facekiller]

actually a spell enchanted bazerald has been proven to be better than a second mikatsuki... yes im aware of how magic ninja work... and yes blaze shield +exploding dragon is a good combo... except when dealing with fire or water monsters... and really ive heard nothing about any decent builds from anybody outside of the blaze shield/ exploding dragon combo... and lets be honest here i played this class for its versatility and using the same skills over and over and over and over gets old fast and kinda takes all the fun out of it... i was using shadow slash, css, illusion shadow, throw kunai, petal swirl, kunai explosion and magic before the "fix"...

[Scuba]

I don't think many other player could afford KK CoD for 30%. and Also 4/4 spell for baze since it takes 8 coins per try to enchant. Also Spell 3 RWC isn't defaul option for many among the players. Instead of using those expansive gears, i was gravitating more towards to use combo skill such as cicada active->illusion shadow->blazing shield on decoy->exploding dragon to maximize your stability.

i've seen blazing shield doing 2k~3k per hit or more. which means it will do 20k~30k total. Blazing shield is really good magic ninja skill that are not popular among ninjas i think.

Exactly I didnt say they were good. If you are low budget nice magic just isn't for you. And I wouldn't make a guide teaching a homeless person how to use an iPhone 5.

[CharAznable]

actually a spell enchanted bazerald has been proven to be better than a second mikatsuki... yes im aware of how magic ninja work... and yes blaze shield +exploding dragon is a good combo... except when dealing with fire or water monsters... and really ive heard nothing about any decent builds from anybody outside of the blaze shield/ exploding dragon combo... and lets be honest here i played this class for its versatility and using the same skills over and over and over and over gets old fast and kinda takes all the fun out of it... i was using shadow slash, css, illusion shadow, throw kunai, petal swirl, kunai explosion and magic before the "fix"...

Then does it matter for you to concerned about any of those skill except Kunai Explosion? all the utility skills Kage/Oboro offers are extremely useful and I was able to 99/70 in a few days without Throw Kunai. Even Kunai Explosion I can comfortably one shot scarab and even further i was able to one shot last week's TI with odin and other buffs(I'm mentioning this because its not gravitating towards to player with bad gear at all) Kunai Splash is good skill except the kunai weights a lot. Kunai Explosion will be back in track with damage except the AoE and i dont think its an issue when you can easily deal 120k+ as a Oboro(imagine this with weapon perfection). if you feel like using same skill over and over is boring, why did you chose this class? and I entirely disagree with same skill because even tho the core of skill is the same, Charms make these skill more usuful, and makes them entirely different. 150% more dmg to shadow slash makes me think of comboing ninja with cross slash, and many more combination using original ninja skill is still exciting for me.

Instead of arguing, i'd like this thread to be helpful, and hopefully helping me to produce decent leveling/tip guide for many other user who are willing to make Kage/Oboro.

[Facekiller]

have you tested these skills on Sakkray at level 150 vs higher level monsters?

[CharAznable]

Exactly I didnt say they were good. If you are low budget nice magic just isn't for you. And I wouldn't make a guide teaching a homeless person how to use an iPhone 5.

I was just pointing out that magic ninja can be decent and good without using those expansive gears! its like free android phone will offer almost same thing what iphone 5 would offer really. i spend $99 bucks on my galaxy s2 and honestly it does the same thing ! didnt need to spend $299! HAHAHAHA.

[CharAznable]

have you tested these skills on Sakkray at level 150 vs higher level monsters?

I'm 150 in actual server so no need to go testing server to test physical skills. But as i collecting information on magic ninja and all, you can semi instacast without using a lot of variable deduction by putting lots of agi stat as a magic ninja.

Also, at 150, i was able to deal about 220k on mini valk using Kunai Explosion with right set up + lex. Also can two~three shot the most of low tier mvps. was dealing 95k~100k to angra mentis and i have replay that deals about 13k?~15k to hillwinds and desert wolfs using kunai splash when i was 105. (was dealing 25k on angra mentis since they're small(100% with dagger))

I haven't really tried magic ninja as Kage but as i get more gear, i will start test this around more.

I do know that scarab starting at 124 as oboro is totally viable tho.

Edited by CharAznable, 09 April 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Scuba]

True. If you want to make a magic guide we can start there.

List of monsters that will be susceptible to Ninja Magic

List of gear that affect matk

List of Enchantable Armor for Ninja

Tool for locating your level range

Gear other Ninja use
(Reserved for editing tips)

Edited by Scuba, 09 April 2013 - 06:54 PM.

[UglyJealousy]

1. having to switch all 10 charms on maps dealing with different element monsters... before you could just hotkey the different kunai elements to switch on the fly
yea this is annoying.
2. the delay after Petal swirl is kinda a pain
dont care for kunai/throwing.
3. magic is slow in casting and interuptable and only has 3 elements and only 6 targetable skills and are weak
honestly i do decent dmg with a +6 spell 4 spell 2 baz and +5 spell 4 spell 2 baz i do like 20k-25k combined aoe in lower ti(though this could just be mob lvls) its not bad ninja spells arent standalone gotta spam em together
4. the price of gears to make magic useful are ridiculous
eh this is if you want to be uber im fine with +6 and +5 spell enchanted baz's
5. Ninja have very low HP without basing all their gears around increasing HP
yea kinda annoying though i dont have that clone skill yet so not much to say
6. ninja skill trees are based around certain key skills taking up skill points that could be better invested
D:
7. Ninja skills have bizarre stat requirements making alot of hybrids not viable...
no comment
unless you got a few hundred million to spend on gears ninja are very underpowered...

Edited by UglyJealousy, 09 April 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[killedbytofu]

1. having to switch all 10 charms on maps dealing with different element monsters... before you could just hotkey the different kunai elements to switch on the fly

2. the delay after Petal swirl is kinda a pain

3. magic is slow in casting and interuptable and only has 3 elements and only 6 targetable skills and are weak

4. the price of gears to make magic useful are ridiculous

5. Ninja have very low HP without basing all their gears around increasing HP

6. ninja skill trees are based around certain key skills taking up skill points that could be better invested

7. Ninja skills have bizarre stat requirements making alot of hybrids not viable...

unless you got a few hundred million to spend on gears ninja are very underpowered...

i agree. the cast times on magic spells are absolutely atrocious. flaming petals is the biggest joke in the entire game. it takes longer to cast then lvl 10 storm gust and only does 2000 damage. ive tried multiple builds on magic, and even wtih 99 dex it still takes far too long to cast to be of use. there is also no options for magic damage weapons other then your starter weapon or some super rare expensive weapon thats never for sale.

i got mine to lvl 90 and gave up. i just dont have the will to make it to oburo (can someone tell me whether or not it gets better?). i used the free stat reset and im currently sitting at all blank stats and skills waiting for an update/announcement/guide that shows me a reason to continue and a build to use thats fun and effective

[Scuba]

16th Night removes fixed cast time, and halves variable so that would help a lot.

Magic casting can be instant, and highly spammable. The problem is that you run into a situation that is funneling an entire class into one skill tree. Not to mention if your sprite isn't female you should remake. Unless you want to WoE, then some Kagerou skills are legit. To level a Ninja / Oboro the most effectively you need an earth / undead element map. There's really only one good map that fits that criteria.

At level 90 that means Dark Priests
At Level 100 You can try ancient mummies, otherwise Dark Priests.
At Level 110 Nameless 2 (if you can tank)
At Level 118 You can go to Scaraba 1 until you can go to scaraba 2.

But basically you are pretty screwed from 90-118

Edited by Scuba, 09 April 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Facekiller]

yeah if i wanted to play a magic class id play a mage class... theyre getting armor soon that autocasts css so why play ninja class at all...

[CharAznable]

Video

This is instant cast Flaming Petal with 100% variable reduction.

Video2

This is agi 110 with no instant casting setting. (4/4 spell baze on both side + 3/3 spell pendant)

If you want to have super fast casting, you need right gear to do so. Just like other class it takes efforts to do this kind of stuff.

P.S. How to utilize Kunai Explosion

P.S.2 How to use Blazing shield to hunt at lower level

Edited by CharAznable, 09 April 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[CharAznable]

i agree. the cast times on magic spells are absolutely atrocious. flaming petals is the biggest joke in the entire game. it takes longer to cast then lvl 10 storm gust and only does 2000 damage. ive tried multiple builds on magic, and even wtih 99 dex it still takes far too long to cast to be of use. there is also no options for magic damage weapons other then your starter weapon or some super rare expensive weapon thats never for sale.

i got mine to lvl 90 and gave up. i just dont have the will to make it to oburo (can someone tell me whether or not it gets better?). i used the free stat reset and im currently sitting at all blank stats and skills waiting for an update/announcement/guide that shows me a reason to continue and a build to use thats fun and effective

I don't know what u did with Oboro, or any of your ninja class but check out my video and it is totally viable to cast fast flaming petal.
Other class also needs this gears as minimum to instacast certain skills.

Edited by CharAznable, 09 April 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[UglyJealousy]

2000 dmg flaming petal? o-o

[Anchors]

Ignoring the silly comment about magic being restricted to the mage classes, you don't even really need CSS for early magic leveling. I have no real idea about how much you need it later (I'm picking it up with K/O points since I spent all my ninja points on all the spells and picking up decoy on the way), but early it pays to be able to direct large mobs through your blaze shield without jumping around your screen from CSS. This is particularly true with dragon or first wind as your follow-up since mobs are very easily directed through blaze shield when you have full control. Get agi for some flee if you need it, or go dual fortune swords, even, though you'll need some mad upgrades and spell enchants to keep the matk decent.

Side note: I never use flaming petals or freezing icicle over level 5 before I have 16th night unless the monster is one-shottable with them and not by anything else. Blaze shield, crimson dragon, and first wind got two of my ninjas to 99 just fine without extreme caster gear.

[TheSquishy]

Char-before you even start this guide, you gotta address how are players even suppose to make it K/O with ninja magic being the way it is and no other viable viable leveling option besides auto attacking.

You need expensive gear to make a magic ninja work.
NInjas don't have access to charms and 16th night.


With just a baz,full charms, and 16th you'll get by quite well but what are players to do before they reach that point?

[CharAznable]

Char-before you even start this guide, you gotta address how are players even suppose to make it K/O with ninja magic being the way it is and no other viable viable leveling option besides auto attacking.

You need expensive gear to make a magic ninja work.
NInjas don't have access to charms and 16th night.


With just a baz,full charms, and 16th you'll get by quite well but what are players to do before they reach that point?

That i have to update my guide from year ago. its been pined but i haven't updated it yet since the Ninja nerf. Throw Kunai is still viable option where magic ninja is bit under powered. But the core is simple. You won't be using much of single target skill.

0~11: you will be in tutorial and get out as level 11 novice.
11~30: Payon Dungeon with low level Flaming Petal(or Spore hunt with low level Lightening Jolt)
30~38: Mobbing hunting with Blazing Shield at Orc Field(i prefer one thats east from orc dungeon field)
38~56: Mobbing hunting with Blazing Shield at First Floor of Orc dungeon
56~71: You could do maneater quest to bypass this cycle. I haven't thought of how to pass this cycle without maneater yet.
71~86: Mi Gao Quest Loops
86~99: This is where both Throw Kunai/Magic ninja is having hard time raising. So far, I'd say mobbing Roween and blazing shield or Stapo is viable but thats till 95. Siroma can be a good alternative but that's little bit slower because theres not much mob in ice dungeon(due to its being deserted)

I just have to figure out some more options to offer, and i can come up with solid way of leveling.

[Facekiller]

in case anybody is interested i just dropped everything in my storage on the poring map... all my gears and items and cards... i have no use for it anymore so HAPPY HUNTING... im going back to my old PS2....

[CharAznable]

where?