38 replies to this topic

[Campitor]

Greetings Everyone!

Due to the recent change on Renewal where the mail system will be leaving we are looking at creating a system where by guild leaders can turn in supplies and receive stacks of weightless tokens to trade to guild members. The guild members can then trade in those tokens to the npcs in order to retrieve their supplies. This way guild leaders can still participate in WoE instead of having to spend the whole time dealing stacks of 200 potions at a time.

So where is a question to guild leaders, what items do you find you distribute as WoE Supplies and how many would you consider a normal stack? 50? 100? 200? Over 9000?

[VolunteerMod05]

How would this work for the larger numbers of ranked condensed white potions brewed/bought by those guilds? In terms of quantity, that can be the largest to deal with in WoE Supplies.

Most high-tier guilds hand out between 500-5000 per person stacks of Ranked Condensed White Potions.

WoE Violet Potions tend to be in stacks between 50-500.

Poison Bottles tend to be between 50-200.


Those are just examples of large stack items. There's far more items that get supplied based on what classes participate in a single WoE.

Edited by VolunteerMod05, 10 April 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[Campitor]

We currently don't have a system for keeping things ranked however, for the number it is easy

They turn in say 2000 and they would get 40 Tokens worth 50 Condensed potions. They can then give those tokens to guild members who visit the npcs and turn them back into potions

[VolunteerMod05]

This system should be perfect for the things that don't gain benefits from being ranked. Perhaps ask the community for a list of extremely bulky items during supply handouts?

[Campitor]

Just a slight bump, One final question as guild leaders and members would this token system be too hectic for you?

[KamiKali]

That's like the same thing as trading potions since there's still the need to trade. It does simplify things such as keeping more than 30,000 condensed pots in storage, but that's really all i can see it useful for. We use a lot more than just pot and pass out speeds, celermine, +20 foods, etc and that will still require a lot of trading.

[Alicesaurus]

Ill make it very simple, Guilds do not use mail to deliver supplies to members for woe. Guilds use mail to mass mail supplies from one npc/person/storage to their potter -> pot said supplies, then mail said massive amount of supplies back to their guild supply account which they then personally hand out supplies on the day before woe starts.
Simply put if you need to make tokens for people to trade supplies you will be doing it for the potting materials, which is 70% of the work in making supplies in the first place.

These include:
Witch Starsands
Fat White Potions
Test Tubes
Medicine Bowls
Maneater Flower
Stems
Poison Spores
Heart of Mermaid
Blue Herb
White herb
Red Herb
Empty Bottle
Immortal heart
Fabric


Put simply these are the only items that a guild has to move around in bulk, in which the removal of the mail system made a very painful experience. Any other potting materials would never need tokens because the amounts used are either small or the items do not weigh all that much so can easily be traded manually without too much fuss.

Hope you decide to implement a token system for this as it would make a guild leaders life TONS easier and save us many hours of work every week.

I run and own the Smokies ranked potter on the ranker list. I represent 5 guilds under just this one name. I believe every other guild who shares the use of this potter will echo and re-affirm what I have just said in this thread, as I imagine other alliance and shared potters would be able to clearly tell you the same.

Edited by Alicesaurus, 22 May 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Finisterra]

Suggestion/Question: Why can't you just add an NPC to convert it into box form (Which cannot be used/opened inside woe/pvp maps or can be used/opened only inside cities)

Edit: Even otherwise, sounds good. Infact really good since it will help guild leader to supply at one go instead of opening storage again and again and stuff.

Edited by Finisterra, 22 May 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[BigArt]

We currently don't have a system for keeping things ranked however, for the number it is easy

They turn in say 2000 and they would get 40 Tokens worth 50 Condensed potions. They can then give those tokens to guild members who visit the npcs and turn them back into potions

You guys are kittens. Sorry. But, don't you see the poor logic in this?
Guild leader uses Zeny to buy Tokens..... guild leader mails tokens to player.... player turns in tokens for condensed potions.......

WHY NOT JUST PUT AN NPC THAT VENDS CONDENSED POTIONS? Then the guild leaders just have to mail Zeny.


Bottom line, it won't work, because they want ranked potions.

[Campitor]

You guys are kittens. Sorry. But, don't you see the poor logic in this?
Guild leader uses Zeny to buy Tokens..... guild leader mails tokens to player.... player turns in tokens for condensed potions.......

WHY NOT JUST PUT AN NPC THAT VENDS CONDENSED POTIONS? Then the guild leaders just have to mail Zeny.


Bottom line, it won't work, because they want ranked potions.

It would not be using Zeny but condensed potions. However reading Alicesaurus's response we may be able to just request the potions parts in boxes form in order to allow for much easier potion creation. This would then allow for the preservation of the Ranked portion of the potions.

[Decimo]

and do you really need take out ygg and valk storages? if you do take out storages can you increase max item ? change it to 90k max hold of same time?

[BigArt]

It would not be using Zeny but condensed potions. However reading Alicesaurus's response we may be able to just request the potions parts in boxes form in order to allow for much easier potion creation. This would then allow for the preservation of the Ranked portion of the potions.

But can you do the openable in cities only?


I can just see someone with 20000 boxes of Condensed Slims and an autopotter, and just add into their script to open a new box when potions are out.

[Tolrin]

I can't see any downsides to a system that makes it easier to trade potion creation supplies, or easier to storage extremely large numbers of them on a single account. I don't think its necessary for the actual finished supplies at all, since actually handing out potions/etc takes comparatively little time, but letting you turn say, 100 or 200 of the various potion supplies into an openable token/box would be a positive quality of life change for making supplies.

[Campitor]

But can you do the openable in cities only?


I can just see someone with 20000 boxes of Condensed Slims and an autopotter, and just add into their script to open a new box when potions are out.

Yes we can, we can either make them just *poof* outside certain areas or just not able to be opened else where.

[Campitor]

I can't see any downsides to a system that makes it easier to trade potion creation supplies, or easier to storage extremely large numbers of them on a single account. I don't think its necessary for the actual finished supplies at all, since actually handing out potions/etc takes comparatively little time, but letting you turn say, 100 or 200 of the various potion supplies into an openable token/box would be a positive quality of life change for making supplies.

I was thinking stacks of 100, the Fat white potions would be the tricky one since what bigart mentioned would be a possible issue. Maybe we would be able to turn one of the unused Eden Group rooms into an Alchemist's workshop for potion makers to do the conversions.

[Divine]

I agree with what alice is saying in regards to usage of the mail system. Some guilds used it to mail supplies to players, but to those who would be late to woe. The mail system was extremely helpful for brewing Slim potions because all the materials could be sent and received within minutes. Now it takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour JUST to transfer Witch star sands and medicine bowls from one account to the brewer and THEN transfering the finished slims to a supply account. These materials should be made more accesible in bulk because it is much harder transfering them without the mail system.

[BigArt]

Maybe we would be able to turn one of the unused Eden Group rooms into an Alchemist's workshop for potion makers to do the conversations.

How about try talk to the Alchemist's themselves and ask where they would like it? Having the NPC near where they make potions would be amazingly helpful.

I used to be #1 potter for years, but every single update that occurred seemed to nerf potters. (kafra potions, no mail, rank resets, stat resets, mc nerf, etc, etc) So I gave it up.

For a change, if you are going to mess with someone's niche area of the game, consult them about it. You know who they are. Just type /alchemist.

Edited by BigArt, 22 May 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Sackof]

Please consider adding these options to the classic server so people don't buy botted supplies. Classic has no Wps system atm


At the moment the Classic server does not have the following npcs:

Dr. Jonesy - Treasure box trader
Ben Recycle - Eats crap gear turns it into elu or other supplies
Farrah - WPS Token exchanger (there is no Wps Tokens on Classic)

[huad]

side note on brewing

make fat whites lighter. nobody even uses them for lvling anymore. it's really just a nuisance to brewing. make them weigh 10 at least. 15 just doesn't make sense. they should be called morbidly obese whites (not talking about the US)

also the stupid medicine bowl npc, why is it capped at 2000 max?

Edited by huad, 23 May 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Schitter]

Worth a try if the System is balanced out and we dont loose too much on it.

Note: System would have to be easy to understand, for new Members wich join WoE Scene


I myself Quit Brewing since i cannot hold up with the current system anymore... ill see what happans in future
Thank you for finally trying to find a solution since a long awaiting time.

Still, Supplys given with Zeny shouldnt ever happan. We should get the chance to supply that wich comes from the Castle Loot itself and in a healthy amount wich wont kill off Guilds anymore

Thanks Campitor

[KamiKali]

About brewing:
Should make specialized fats for brewing that weigh 1 ea which is not usable for healing, but only brewing. This should make brewing in bulk easier, especially purchasing the White Potion part, which is what really took up most of the time. Should make storage maximum value be like 2^31-1, rather than 30,000. I'm sure that's possible since you just need to set that max value to the max game value.

About Supplying:
As for supplies, trading supplies isn't the issue. The main issue is some people don't want to trade guildmates supplies before WoE. It's a lot more convenient to mail them a day before WoE, so instead of supplying, you can work on other things. Some people need to wake up at like 6 or 7 am for WoE, and most of the ones who have to wake up so early don't really want to wake up an hour earlier just to get supplies before WoE starts. It's really inconvenient. This is where having a mail system helped.

About WoE Treasures:
I also believe updating the WoE Castle treasure drops can help improve some guild's standings in WoE. At the moment, because god pieces rarely drop anymore. (I've yet to get a WoE 1.0 piece from a castle since the WoE update back in May last year), many guilds don't feel like it's worth WoEing, especially for the measly drops of Ygg berries, OBBs, Treasure box, and rarely, a WPS token box. WPS tokens are running out fast, and castle treasures aren't replenishing them fast enough for weekly WoEs. (At least on my end). I liked it a lot better when it didn't come from boxes. WoE was a lot livelier when there was a point in econing castles for a specific god piece. Defending a castle wasn't "let's defend so we can get some action", there was a higher goal than that.

Edited by KamiKali, 23 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[zerowon]

as a brewer on classic my biggest grip is buying the matts and not being able to hold enough id like to see lower weight on fat whites or make a specialty one just for brewing. we don't have too many problems handing out supplies on woe days, but would it be possible to have a guild storage bank with a pass and then leaders can stash supplies in there for members to take at there convince since most of us are not in the same time zones.

[Pheks]

Just like alice said I wish we could get stuff easily for brewing. I wanna see how token distribution and trade in for suppy stuff will play out thougth if yall implement that. less work for the people who hands out stuff for woe.

[Dreimdal]

At the moment, because god pieces rarely drop anymore. (I've yet to get a WoE 1.0 piece from a castle since the WoE update back in May last year), many guilds don't feel like it's worth WoEing, especially for the measly drops of Ygg berries, OBBs, Treasure box, and rarely, a WPS token box. WPS tokens are running out fast, and castle treasures aren't replenishing them fast enough for weekly WoEs. (At least on my end). I liked it a lot better when it didn't come from boxes. WoE was a lot livelier when there was a point in econing castles for a specific god piece. Defending a castle wasn't "let's defend so we can get some action", there was a higher goal than that.

On that note, the game needs to heavily modify the god item system. Right now, the god piece drop rate is beyond unreasonably low. One of two things needs to happen: Either raise the drop rates back up to where they were or, as at least one GM mentioned last year as a possibility, severely lower the required amount of pieces to make an item.

The first solution seems most workable as the only change would be in drop rates.

The second solution has the very obvious problem that if anyone has stockpiled a large number of pieces from back when drop rates were still decent, then they will be capable of creating an inordinate and unfairly large number of god items for themselves; A number that they would not otherwise have been able to achieve had the required amount of pieces per god item not been lowered. So, there would need to be a way to reform the system to reduce the number of existing pieces to prevent such an outcome.

One possibility would be to have an NPC who will accept old god item pieces for new-type pieces, and only the new type pieces can be used to create a god item. For example, 5 Woman's Moustache can be traded into an NPC for a single neo-Woman's Moustache. 4 Root of Stone can be traded in for one neo-Root of Stone. And so on.

Making new god items would then require one of each of the 5 neo-god pieces, and all old pieces would be ineffective in making god items and would have to be exchanged with the NPC for neo-pieces in order to be usable in god item creation.

So instead of a Sleipnir requiring 5 Feather of Angel Wing, 4 Amblem of the Sun God, 3 Wheel of the Unknown, 3 Breath of Spirit, and 3 Spirit of Fish, making new Sleipners would require 1 neo-Feather of Angel Wing, 1 neo-Amblem of the Sun God, 1 neo-Wheel of the Unknown, 1 neo-Breath of Spirit, and 1 neo-Spirit of Fish.

And again, castle drop rates would remain close to the same, with perhaps the tiniest of boosts, except henceforth, the castles would all drop neo-god pieces instead of the old-type pieces. Thus, the amount of actual pieces needed is drastically lowered and closer to being in accordance with the new lowered drop rates.


In all honesty though, the 2nd option, seems needlessly complicated when simply raising the drop rate back up to where it was would suffice in sovling the issue.

[Dreimdal]

Back on topic:

The mail system wasn't used solely for exhanging items. It was also used for leaving messages and placing orders. Right now, for example, I cannot leave a message to any friends who are offline for them to see the next time they log in. I also cannot place an order for the amount of supplies I'd like for WoE.

Before, guild members could mail their supplier or guild leader and list the number and types of potions and foods they desired for WoE ahead of time.


Campitor, I suggest that, if you can, at least restore the mail system for exchanging text messages, even if the item-sending aspect of mail must remain disabled. See if kRO would agree to patch that in.

At the same time, maybe they could code in a way to make a message sent on a per-account, rather than per-character basis, such that, if I send a message to a friend's character, but he logs into a different character on that same account, a sytem message in his chat window will let him know that he has received a message and he can still read the message while on that character, rather than having to switch to the character to which the message was originally sent..

Many other games have message exhange features which work in that manner, that is, account-based instead of character-based.

Edited by Dreimdal, 23 May 2013 - 05:18 PM.