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Rogue Tips and Tricks from Zael


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#1 Zaellyr

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:37 AM

I've been playing on the SEA server for several weeks, and am excited about the upcoming NA server, so before things get kicked off, I'd like to offer my experience to my fellow Rogues.

To begin, here are a few builds:


The reasoning behind the choices is explained in the descriptions, but I'll re-post it here just because.

PvE - Statistics and Skills Build

Stats
38STR/ 33AGI/ 26VIT
This setup allocates all your points with none of them wasted while providing endurance as well as a solid Attack Power to Critical Rating ratio.

51STR/ 27AGI/ 4VIT
This setup is much more geared towards damage, if you prefer less survivability and more damage output, a setup like this might be more your play-style.

41STR/ 41AGI
This setup is geared towards a higher Critical Rating, if you prefer burst damage you might favor this build.


Skills
The skill setup is geared toward maximizing damage output, survivability, and utility. All your main damage skills are maximized, as well as your buffs, be sure to keep them active, and utilize potions to keep the Adrenaline Rush buff from Unstable Doping active and maxed out. Always activate Mark of Death, and use Dirty Plan for extra damage whenever possible. Gangster Paradise is maxed to aid survivability in addition to taking some strain off of your healers, remember that Rogues are fairly squishy.



PvP - Statistics and Skills Build

Stats
38STR/ 33AGI/ 26VIT
This setup allocates all your points with none of them wasted while providing endurance as well as a solid Attack Power to Critical Rating ratio.

Skills
The skill setup is geared toward maximizing damage output, survivability, and the ability to annoy your opponent through multiple uses of Hiding. Smoke Bomb is at two to provide an additional use in the Colosseum. 5/ 5 Mark of Death could be switched for 5/ 5 Poisoning Weapon and 2/ 5 Genocide Mark if you're going specifically for Colosseum PvP as your targets will usually go down too quickly and the cool-down time renders Mark of Death ineffective.

Hide > Opener > Smoke Bomb > Opener > Dirty Plan > Smoke Bomb > Opener > Wait for Smoke Bomb Cool-Down > Smoke Bomb > Opener

With the addition of 5/ 5 Crescent Moon and 5/ 5 Gangster Paradise, this build becomes highly survivable through stuns and self healing. Remember to keep all your buffs active and be sure to Mark of Death your opponent if you're using it. Use Potions when available and Gangster's Paradise if your HP drops below 50%.



Hybrid - Statistics and Skills Build

Statistics
A build of 51STR/ 27AGI/ 3VIT successfully spends all your points while maximizing your Attack Power to Critical ratio for steady damage. If you prefer burst damage or Critical builds, you might pursue a build of 41STR/ 41AGI, which while viable doesn't suit my play-style.

Skills
For me this build functions well in both PvP and PvE; with full points in Gangster's Paradise, you maximize your soloing potential. Five points in Unstable Doping is probably one of the most important boosts for any Rogue, however you will spend a fair amount of Zeny on potions to keeping the buff rolling at a full stack. Don't underestimate the validity of Smoke Bomb in both PvE and PvP, you leave combat and dump aggro, this allows for another opener or an opportunity to heal up via Potions (which don't break stealth). Also, in going down the tree to Smoke Bomb you pick up Dark Illusion, the nice opener which places you behind the enemy and crits most of the time, and Meteor Assault, which will be your only Area of Effect skill. Crescent Moon is also nice in PvE when handling additional monsters or protecting your casters, one of the primary functions of Rogues in PvE, and in PvP is essential.


For new players following this build, you should focus on maxing Double Attack and Deadly Blow first, since they will be your two main damage Skills. Even after you change class to Rogue you'll be using Deadly Blow occasionally. Poisoning Weapon is a extremely useful skill, but scales with Attack Power. Your main Finishing Move will be Moonlight Dance, If you save enough points and want it, you can get it right after the class change. The same goes for any Skill in the Rogue Tree.


Cards

The Cards that I have in the displays are just a guildline for stat ratios. I try to keep my STR/ AGI/ VIT bonuses from cards relatively balanced.


Unstable Doping Explanation

After you use it, Unstable Doping buff will be active for 30 minutes.
During it's duration, every attack has a percent chance (variable with skill level) of activating another buff, giving 20% Attack Power or 20% Critical Rate.This buff will last for 30 seconds and does not stack as it places a debuff on you preventing multiple acquisitions.
In addition, when you use a Health Recovery Potion, you'll receive a percent of Attack Power (variable with skill level). This bonus is generated trough the Adrenaline Rush buff, that lasts for 2 minutes. Every time you use a Potion to recover Health, your Attack Power goes up, but the buff only increases until it reaches 30% of your Attack Power; every time you use a Health Potion, the buff timer goes back to 2 minutes. If you let the time run out, you'll have to use several Potions to maximize the buff again.
Once the Adrenaline Rush buff is maximized, you can use Low-Level Potions to keep it active, this will save you some money on Potions.


Tips and Tricks

1 - Healing Potions, Looting, Farming Materials, Food, Vendors, and Quest Givers don't break Hide.
2 - Keep your Buffs active.
3 - Combo Points cross targets, but you lose them all if you enter Hiding, however you do not lose Combo Mastery. Using Smoke Bomb to enter Hiding, you can double the damage on one of your Finishing Moves; a double damage Moonlight Dance can be absolutely devastating to any opponent.
4 -Grind out a level every now and then to stay about a level ahead of the Main Quest-line, this will help you maintain a fast pace while leveling.
5 - Grind on a group of 4-5 non-aggressive monsters to reduce the danger and enabling you to stop and heal if you need to.
6 - Utilize the Khara Menu for extra Experience, Zeny and titles.



Grinding Spots

Porings in the Starting Area
Poor Porings in the Starting Area
Lunatics in the Starting Area
Poporings just South of Prontera (650, 1700)
Peco Pecos in Southern Prontera Fields (550, 1180)

Stellaria in Izlude Hill (1430, 1520)
Truffles in Payon Forest (1350, 620)
Miho Guards in Payon Forest (1300, 230)
Potemkin in the Divided Plains (450, 700)



Hopefully you find this both informative and helpful, may all your loot be epic!

Zael

Edited by Zaellyr, 16 April 2013 - 01:44 PM.

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#2 Kajing

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:59 AM

Good build.
I guess that's the best skill build for rogue. I've saw it in Black Lotus Rogue Guide. The only change I made was trading one point in Dagger Throwing (3/4) for one esxtra point in Combo Training (3/3), but for pvp, the best choice is to max Dagger Throwing.

For new players following this build, you should focus on maxing Double Attack and Deadly Blow First, since it will be you two main skills. even after you change class to rogue you'll be using Deadly Blow occasionally. Poisoning Weapon is a extreme usefull skill, but works better when you have higher atk.
Your main damage skill will be Moonlight Dance, of course. If you save enough points and want it, you can get it right after the class change.
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#3 Zaellyr

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:07 AM

Thanks for the comments, I hadn't seen Black Lotus's guide, lol.

I used Dagger Throwing to pull a lot when leveling as well, its just helpful. You're absolutely right on the placement as far as leveling, if you don't mind, I'll amend the earlier post with your suggestions. I'd like to make this a comprehensive guide for new Rogues, I'm about to log on SEA later and get some coordinates for the grinding spots too.
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#4 Kajing

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:21 AM

No I don't mind :)
Dagger Throwing is a must have skill against monsters, especially in dungeons when you wanna lure some monsters, not to talk about hiting that one running hunter in pvp. But when leveling alone I usually start with Dark Illusion for the 100% crit.
Again, It's a very usefull skill.

Hope more people will share their experiences as rogue.
Keep the good job on the thread.
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#5 ItsFaulkenOMG

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:34 AM

A more comprehensive explanation about Doping can be informative too.. As it is a complicated skill and I would like to know the tricks behind it, although it's hard. BTW thanks for this,
Zaellyr
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#6 OneLastDance

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:58 AM

That build sucks, why would you ever max your kick it's fine level 1.

Why wouldn't you max your self heal and 10% damage?

No words for that build.
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#7 Kajing

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:14 AM

After you use it, Unstable Dopping buff will be avaiable for 30 minutes.
During it's duration, every of your atacks have a % (variable with skill level) of activating another buff, giving 20% atk or 20% crit.This buff will last for 30 seconds and you'll only activate it again after the 30 seconds runs out.
Plus, when you use a hp recovery potion, you'll receive a % atk bonus (variable with skill level). This bonus is generated trough the Adrenaline Rush buff, that lasts for 2 minutes. Every time you use a hp recovering potion, you atk goes up, but the buff goes up only until it reaches 30% of your atk. And every time you use a hp recovery potion, the buff timer goes back to 2 min. If you let the time run out, you'll have to keep using pots
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#8 Kajing

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:15 AM

Sorry, double post.

Edited by Kajing, 14 April 2013 - 08:17 AM.

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#9 Kajing

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:22 AM

That build sucks, why would you ever max your kick it's fine level 1.

Why wouldn't you max your self heal and 10% damage?

No words for that build.


This build is a PvP/PvE build. The "kick" is usefull im PvP, and some PvE situations.
I'm assuming that the healling skill you're talking about is Gangster Paradise. Take a look at the build again, it's maxed out.
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#10 KIyde

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:49 AM

Interesting Build. I rather focus on Agi for the Crit though, although I see maximizing STR would be quite useful in order to get the maximum ATK from Adrenaline Rush. Skill wise, I find Dark Illusion a lot more useful than throw dagger in Colo, specially with a level 2 Smoke Bomb/Dirty Plan seeing as you can use it up to two times per Colo round. I dislike Crescent Moon in PvP, since by the time I use it, someone else takes the kill so I usually rather use the 5 combo points for Deadly Blow/Moonlight. However, It's quite useful in advance Raids on Adds such as Shadow from Ratmaster and the Horong Bombs from Baphomet (Hard Mode) I don't agree with ignoring Mark of Death though, if it was a pure PvP build than ignoring it is understandable, but it's a must in PvE.
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#11 Zaellyr

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:14 PM

That build sucks, why would you ever max your kick it's fine level 1.

Why wouldn't you max your self heal and 10% damage?

No words for that build.


Let's keep this kind of thing to a minimum by paying better attention to detail and keeping criticism constructive. Thanks.

I max Crescent Moon for the cool-down reduction, it can be pivotal to switch targets and get a stun or interrupt on a caster, healer, or additional monster in a fight, and the cool-down reduction allows for more uses per fight. Mark of Death is an awesome talent in PvE, but is overshadowed by Unstable Doping and other talents in a Hybrid Build. Keep in mind that this is a Hybrid Build, I will post Pure builds for PvP and PvE later. The goal of the build is to perform well in all aspects of the game and to minimize Skill Resets for players with light pockets. For now, back to assembling the list of coordinates for the leveling list.
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#12 nIXne

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:49 AM

That build sucks, why would you ever max your kick it's fine level 1.

Why wouldn't you max your self heal and 10% damage?

No words for that build.

What a constructive post.

Anyway, thanks for the tips, OP. I'm thinking about rolling Rogue as my first class, so this thread should be useful when I need some insight on certain skills.
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#13 synesthetic

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:01 AM

Hm. I'm surprised you didn't mention Combo Mastery + Smoke Bomb. You don't lose Combo Mastery when you Hide, but you can't Hide when you're in combat. But you can use Smoke Bomb to hide in combat, then use Combo Mastery to say.. double Moonlight's damage.
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#14 OniNoMeKyo

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:15 AM

Here's a tip that I didn't see mentioned:
- After you cap the Adrenaline Rush buff, use level 1 red pots to keep the skill active. Not sure if that was a given or not, but it saves a bit of zenny.
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#15 Zaellyr

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

synesthetic and OniNoMeKyo both raise good points. Its nice to see other players who think technically as well as outside the box. I'll amend the first post.

Thanks for your input. :)
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#16 iNz4Ne

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

So basically, once Combo Mastery procs (theres a 9% chance every time you attack, or use a skill?), you will have some kinda buff that gives you 5 combo points, regardless of hide? So basically using Hide -> Moonlight Dance will technically have 220% attack power? jesus christ...if that crits...halleluja.
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#17 Zaellyr

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:33 PM

Its a 10% chance, but other than that, you got it. The damage can be insane. Hallelujah indeed!

Main Post updated with additional builds.
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#18 iNz4Ne

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:35 PM

I have a few questions:

How long does Mark of Death last?
How long does Hiding Stealth last?
How long does Smoke Bomb stealth last? Can you move during Smoke Bomb stealth? Does it give you the same 2x Power Buff that Hiding gives?
Is the difference between Level 1 Throw Dagger and Level 4 Throw Dagger huge (Damage wise)? Endgame in mind. (50geared vs 50geared)
How fast can you accumulate 5 combo points thru normal ways? Lets say Dual Stab - Combo Attack - Combo Attack? It all says Insta Cast, but how long are the animations?
Does Attack Speed exist in this game? Does it affect Animation speed?
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#19 synesthetic

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:47 PM

- Mark of Death lasts about 30 seconds.
- Hiding from either Hide or Smoke Bomb lasts until either you attack, or something hurts you. Like an AoE attack or having a DoT on you will bring you out of hiding.
- Smoke Bomb is the same as Hide, except it allows you to hide while you're in combat.
- Instant skills take roughly 1 sec if you include casting animation/delay. Usually takes 3-5 attacks between Dark Illusion, Double Attack, Dual Stab, and Combo Training procs. If you're lucky, 2 attacks, meaning Combo Training proc'ed on both Dual Stab and another attack.
- Attack Speed is based on your weapon type, and nothing else. It only affects your autoattacks, which will show damage even if you're constantly spamming skills. No effect on skill animations at all.


edit : I should note that when it comes to building up 5 combo points, it's overall more often than every 3-5 attacks thanks to Combo Mastery.
Your combo points are displayed by a gauge to the left of your character, but when Mastery procs, you'll see an icon on the right. The next time you use a move that requires combo points, it'll use up your Mastery proc. So if you have 5 combo points and Mastery proc, you can do two 5-pt moves consecutively.

Edited by synesthetic, 16 April 2013 - 03:54 PM.

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#20 iNz4Ne

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:39 AM

- Mark of Death lasts about 30 seconds.
- Hiding from either Hide or Smoke Bomb lasts until either you attack, or something hurts you. Like an AoE attack or having a DoT on you will bring you out of hiding.
- Smoke Bomb is the same as Hide, except it allows you to hide while you're in combat.
- Instant skills take roughly 1 sec if you include casting animation/delay. Usually takes 3-5 attacks between Dark Illusion, Double Attack, Dual Stab, and Combo Training procs. If you're lucky, 2 attacks, meaning Combo Training proc'ed on both Dual Stab and another attack.
- Attack Speed is based on your weapon type, and nothing else. It only affects your autoattacks, which will show damage even if you're constantly spamming skills. No effect on skill animations at all.


edit : I should note that when it comes to building up 5 combo points, it's overall more often than every 3-5 attacks thanks to Combo Mastery.
Your combo points are displayed by a gauge to the left of your character, but when Mastery procs, you'll see an icon on the right. The next time you use a move that requires combo points, it'll use up your Mastery proc. So if you have 5 combo points and Mastery proc, you can do two 5-pt moves consecutively.


Thanks alot for your answers kind sir.

However your last aswer, regarding Attack Speed, confuses me abit. I've read the following line in the other Rogue Guide in this forum:

"Vigor: Decreases cooldown on skills.
Haste: Decreases casting time and increases attack speed."


Haste seems to increase attack speed. So does it only affect Auto Hits (No Skill) aswell? Is it even possible to affect animation speed at all?

Also on a side note: Is there a Cap for Vigor? What is the highest Cool Down Reduction one can archieve with the current end game gear? 25% seems pretty insane already.
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#21 synesthetic

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:30 AM

Haste does decrease casting time, but it doesn't increase attack speed.
Take these two images for example:
https://www.t-mobile...s=true&rs=false
http://i46.tinypic.com/2entjbk.jpg
They're both sorcs using staves, which have a universal aspd of 4.0. But the sorc in the second image has Wind Seal going, giving him about 17% more Haste than the first one. But the aspd shown for both remains at 4.0.

So Haste decreases casttime. Vigor decreases cooldown.
But nothing I know of affects casting animation/delay. So even skills labeled as "instant" will still take about 1 sec to cast due to animation/delay alone.

I don't know if there's a cap for Vigor. And I'm not sure how high you can get it exactly. But I'm estimating...
~13-14% from AoD-H set, or possibly combining 2-piece set bonuses from CoA and AoD sets
~5% from Colosseum weapon
~5-6% from epic accessories

... So around 23-25% from equipment, and then an additional 30%? from a short Lv.3 Guardian buff. Unless there are class-specific buffs for Vigor, that's all I can think of.
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#22 KIyde

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:17 AM

Haste does decrease casting time, but it doesn't increase attack speed.
Take these two images for example:
https://www.t-mobile...s=true&rs=false
http://i46.tinypic.com/2entjbk.jpg
They're both sorcs using staves, which have a universal aspd of 4.0. But the sorc in the second image has Wind Seal going, giving him about 17% more Haste than the first one. But the aspd shown for both remains at 4.0.

So Haste decreases casttime. Vigor decreases cooldown.
But nothing I know of affects casting animation/delay. So even skills labeled as "instant" will still take about 1 sec to cast due to animation/delay alone.


Hello, hmm, is that true? I was skeptical about it as well since the description of Haste in the game is:

Posted Image

However, I have never really confirmed this because for example, the Attack Speed on daggers is always 1.90... maybe it's just a mistranslation.

Oh well, I'll fix it on my guide. Thanks for pointing it out!

Edited by KIyde, 17 April 2013 - 03:18 AM.

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#23 iNz4Ne

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:51 AM

Would you say a Rogue has a good chance to defeat a similar geared and skilled Sorc in a 1on1 duel? Since hteir strongest attacks require a target and we can hide twice im thinking its possible to defeat htem..except their heal might be a problem, but if we start with a knockdown, maybe we got a chance :P I sure wished combo points wouldnt vanish once you enter hide..then again it would be op..probably..
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#24 synesthetic

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:21 AM

Hello, hmm, is that true? I was skeptical about it as well since the description of Haste in the game is:

Posted Image

However, I have never really confirmed this because for example, the Attack Speed on daggers is always 1.90... maybe it's just a mistranslation.

Oh well, I'll fix it on my guide. Thanks for pointing it out!

Now that seaRO2 is finally back up, I can finally test it to confirm. There was the possibility that maybe the stat window just isn't showing the increase in attack speed.

I got on my sorc. Unequipped everything that I had room to unequip. 2.42% Haste.
~4 seconds between attacks.
Re-equipped everything and turned on Wind Seal. 30.32% Haste. With that much Haste, I should be seeing a clear 3 sec delay between attacks. I tested and...
~4 seconds between attacks. No change.

So either the stat is bugged, or the text is incorrect.
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