117 replies to this topic

[GlumshanksGirl]

How are you enduring if you don't succeed, if you endure it means you last, and if you're just dying constantly each time then well? MOST players are NOT going to play through a dungeon 500 times because they can't stay afloat. They'll find another MMO that challenges them to their brink but lets them eventually succeed without feeling restricted by internal mechanics. And I think there should be punishment in death, and I think res should take up gobs and gobs of SP *or whatever the magic is called*

[Jargous]

How are you enduring if you don't succeed, if you endure it means you last, and if you're just dying constantly each time then well? MOST players are NOT going to play through a dungeon 500 times because they can't stay afloat. They'll find another MMO that challenges them to their brink but lets them eventually succeed without feeling restricted by internal mechanics. And I think there should be punishment in death, and I think res should take up gobs and gobs of SP *or whatever the magic is called*

There is the continuous interaction between the community and developers, you leave it at that for extreme difficulty issues. I believe we have reached a point to where you would need to take this to Q&A to find out what it may be. It is getting to a point to this problem has become a moving target. I have no major problems with the skill yet, but it can change down the road seeing how when I played in SEA I was subjected to laggy conditions. Now that the lag is pretty much gone, time to see how much of that has changed.

[Fold]

Res could also reset at the end of a boss fight. It limits the amount of resses per fight but removes the wait time. (Yeah, I copied that from wow onoes)

[Jargous]

So...who wants to compile and throw this as part of a Q&A to warpportal?

[GlumshanksGirl]

I'm not here to change how they develop their games xP. I was just stating why the current one isn't exactly the best way to go about it. But I do agree it should be possibly brought to dev's attention. I'm confused though. Are the people running it here the people who develop on it *even for this region*, or do they take everything back to another developer and release what is given to them? Cause I know places that do both x.x

[TheUraharaShop]

Everyone here has a very valid point, but what we all need to take away is that the game is still in beta.

If there is content and modifications that balances out long cool down time or stricken it, we need to first move out of beta, see what licensing Gravity US has in terms of customization of the game and then come back to see what exactly needs to be changed.

Making any hard line stance saying "there is no point in this rather than that" only fuels the discussions away from the basic guidelines of replying and discussing beta testing:

How to make feedback reports: *In no particular order*

Use your voice it helps get things balanced and fixed.

This stuff applies especially to Balance feedback and doubly for PvP balance feedback.


1: Try to think about overall game balance when creating or responding to threads. You are here to make the game better for EVERYONE not to make your class OP as hell in Arena or dominate DPS charts.

2: Bring proof. Anecdotal evidence is absolutely useless especially with the small pool of people that actually do their jobs as testers and provide feedback.

3: If you have good credentials give your credentials. Especially with PvP a persons level of experience and the levels they play at makes a huge effect on how they perceive something. If you're an active top raiding guild member you probably have a better grasp on Raid mechanics and class PvE balance than someone who has only done a few.

4: If you have friends that agree that x is a problem then get them to come on your thread and talk about it.

5: Act like you're a reasonable intelligent person. If you're pissed off wait a few hours or until the next day to make the thread. You may have valid things to say that WILL get ignored or taken lightly if you can't make proper feedback.

6: Remember to give feedback on how you would fix it. Give feedback on what you think is the reason something is "wrong/broken". Give solutions not empty complaints.

7: Don't throw out troll bait. Your feedback will get ignored if your threads sounds like a troll or is dripping with troll bait. Also attempt to keep your topic on track and bring it back if its getting derailed.

8: Check to see if there is another thread about the subject. If there is then chime in there. Remember the more voices saying the same thing is what causes them to change. A large single thread with good debate gets taken more seriously than several derailed or 3 post threads.

9: If it's class related check the Mega threads (a thread that attempts to cover all the aspects, pluses and minuses of a specific class/thing within its sub forums) to see if this feedback has already been brought up. The CM's pay attention to these threads because they are often moderated to an extent by the people that frequent it. If it is already there reintroduce the topic by saying I'm having this issue currently to make sure its understood that is it still an issue.

10: MAKE SURE that if you are joining into a thread that you aren't necroing (resurrecting a dead or outdated thread) it. Check to see if it was before the latest update. If it is start a new one. They are not likely to re-read something from a past build as it may not apply anymore. The start date of the thread is often less important than the date of the last several posts as long as they aren't necroing it. Often you will have to make a judgement call on whether you feel the older thread still relevant or not when there are newer posts at the end.

11: Start threads in the appropriate sub-forum. If it's a PvP issue put it in the PvP threads. If its an issue with x class under/over preforming go to that classes sub-forum. If x raid boss hit to hard go to the individual boss threads the Devs will start when they start raid testing. If its... you get the idea.

12: Use focused feedback. If you have problems with 3 separate things then start 3 threads. Don't derail your own threads with multiple subjects.

13: Give positive feedback as well. I can't stress enough how much I believe in giving back positive feedback. Just try and put yourselves in their shoes. If all you hear is bad feedback at your job about your performance how would you feel and how much would you respect said persons opinions? It's fine to give negative feedback they need that to fix things but remember to give credit where credit is due.

14: If starting a "Heres my idea for changing [insert ability] to be more fun/balanced/useful" style thread make sure you have thought it out and your idea isn't a completely retarded, OP or impossible suggestion.

[Jargous]

Usually I consider open beta as live environment, because it is usually not wiped at that point. What a lot of players simply don't like about resurrection here is that it allows for a very small margin of error. Anymore than 4 deaths (especially DDs) in raids is usually termed a failure.

[GlumshanksGirl]

That is not at all my reason. I don't like it because it punishes the healer class in general and makes them more or less useless for the extremely hard dungeons or bosses. Let the person who fell get his equipment broken or lose tons of money, and let the healer take a blow by having to sap his/her magic power and have to strategize on how to stay afloat while healing the resed persons HP while managing their own SP. Just make it balanced ffs, because that, in no way, is balanced. Very bad game mechanic that needs to be remedied pretty fast. XD

[ODKN]

That is not at all my reason. I don't like it because it punishes the healer class in general and makes them more or less useless for the extremely hard dungeons or bosses. Let the person who fell get his equipment broken or lose tons of money, and let the healer take a blow by having to sap his/her magic power and have to strategize on how to stay afloat while healing the resed persons HP while managing their own SP. Just make it balanced ffs, because that, in no way, is balanced. Very bad game mechanic that needs to be remedied pretty fast. XD

Resurrection does *Not* define the Priest, as Sorcs get it too, and other classes can res with Ygg leaves, not to mention spinels for self res. There is enough penalty in the time lost getting flattened.

Edited by ODKN, 24 April 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[GlumshanksGirl]

Res items, sure, but I think magic users get res SKILL and should be a nice part of their character not something they pull out randomly whenever, especially for full support classes or builds of classes. Does it define them? Nope. Should it, to some degree, seeing as that's what they are by nature? Probably, at least to SOME degree. Items should never be able to take the place of a character or skill.

People can disagree on that, but I'm standing by my game-making mechanics roots xD

[Sacriel]

Res items, sure, but I think magic users get res SKILL and should be a nice part of their character not something they pull out randomly whenever, especially for full support classes or builds of classes. Does it define them? Nope. Should it, to some degree, seeing as that's what they are by nature? Probably, at least to SOME degree. Items should never be able to take the place of a character or skill.

People can disagree on that, but I'm standing by my game-making mechanics roots xD

This. I'd rather just not have the Res skill on an FS than deal with a 21-30 min. timer.

[ODKN]

This. I'd rather just not have the Res skill on an FS than deal with a 21-30 min. timer.

So you rather not have resurrect at all? Remind me to ask what my priest has when I party...

[Jargous]

As it stands, either we deal with the damn long timer, or we have no CDs, but insanely high SP costs.

[Kiyoshiro]

As it stands, either we deal with the damn long timer, or we have no CDs, but insanely high SP costs.

I'd say have the kRO2 cooldowns with an SP cost similar to or higher than what Deluge has (which would be over 90). No cooldowns with high SP costs can pretty much be countered with a Blue Potion, thus leaving it spammable, and that'd be WAY too easy.

[Sacriel]

So you rather not have resurrect at all? Remind me to ask what my priest has when I party...

It's not that I don't want Res, it's just that with that kind of CD, the parties will just become more exclusive against players that die at all. Thus making Res kind of a gimmick skill, that you just pull out of your pocket in the off chance that it is up. Besides, as it currently stands, I'd use a spinel faster than a priest or sorc could res me so that the Res could be saved for those who do not have spinels.

[ODKN]

It's not that I don't want Res, it's just that with that kind of CD, the parties will just become more exclusive against players that die at all. Thus making Res kind of a gimmick skill, that you just pull out of your pocket in the off chance that it is up. Besides, as it currently stands, I'd use a spinel faster than a priest or sorc could res me so that the Res could be saved for those who do not have spinels.

And what happens when Spinel is on cooldown, or when you need a full res? "Oh, crap, sorry, I died again. <Kicks member>"

SPinel also requires money, learning resurrection does not.

Edited by ODKN, 24 April 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Jargous]

I'd say have the kRO2 cooldowns with an SP cost similar to or higher than what Deluge has (which would be over 90). No cooldowns with high SP costs can pretty much be countered with a Blue Potion, thus leaving it spammable, and that'd be WAY too easy.

The SP costs can be high enough that you'd have to eat enough blue pots and use aqua to get it back to a sustainable level. Imagine if you had 2200 sp, and your resurrection cost you between 80-90% sp. A timed aqua and pots would cost you an additional 6-10 blue potions (depending on potency), bringing the wait time to a minimum of 50 seconds. Consider that you are in battle, this may extend to a minute or more. Depending on how high you want it will determine. Dropping it to kRO2 cds would be too easy as you don't have to worry too much about SP, but if you had to continually pop SP potions to get another resurrection ready, it may make it more worthwhile to work for that Res instead of waiting for it.

[ZeroTigress]

I'm all for Resurrection taking up more SP as opposed to the ridiculously long cooldown. Would also help as a zeny sink, too, just in case.