304 replies to this topic

[Sakarai]

It's almost like you can't have an opinion or point something out on the internet anymore without someone coming into the thread with a different opinion only to dismiss any evidence presented to them and immediately berate or belittle those who dare speak up.

Edited by Sakarai, 22 April 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Alvana]

Elite > Casual
Elite > Casual w/ money
Elite w/ money > Casual w/ money

In case of doubt, you can just DDoS that mother******. Problems?

Edited by Alvana, 22 April 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Tanoshii2k1]

The thing is about you guys complaining about the 10% HP/MP is that it's a static 1-time thing that you can get.

You CANNOT stack the VIP bonus. Meaning anyone who throws in 9$ can have that EXACT bonus. It isn't like
you have to continue spending and spending to get up to that much. That's just the premium that people will
need to get.

You don't HAVE to have it, but either way it's a lot cheaper than a P2P game's monthly fee. People actin' like
they'll have to drop big money on this, it's 9$ get over it.

So why don't they just charge 9 dollars a month to play the game if people need it, like you say? It doesn't matter how much it costs. Games that are pay to win tend to attract scumbag players since they usually can't win without having an edge.

[Alvana]

So why don't they just charge 9 dollars a month to play the game if people need it, like you say? It doesn't matter how much it costs. Games that are pay to win tend to attract scumbag players since they usually can't win without having an edge.

They would have less subscription if the game was 9$ than the number of people that will be mad because they can't afford to have the edge but can afford a 4$ mount for 30 days.

Not a good business for them.

Impossible that third one.

Korean SCII GSL Code S players says hello.

Edited by Alvana, 22 April 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[ensolon]

I'll write up the prices, do the math...

1 USD equals ~1220 RO2@Cash on Sea (if you buy 100k cash at once, less is more expensive), and prices go as follows:

1 Pandora Key (good for one chest) costs 680 cash, ~55 c
1 Spinel (Self-Resurrection) = 780 cash, ~63 c, cheaper in bundles.
1 Super Puncher (to allow costume slotting, since even duraion-based costumes come with "sealed" rune slots) = 5080 cash, $4.1 per slot.
30day VIP =9800 cash, 8 bucks.
1 Rune Elixir (upgrades a +5 rune to (+6 - +10 randomly) = 1980 cash, $1.6 per attempt.
1 Super-Large Bag is 18k cash, $14.8

Stat/skill reset scrolls are 6080 each, $4.9 a piece.
Costume extender (body slot) = 3980, or $3.2 each.
Costume extender (head, glasses, pipe/leaf, cape/wings etc, 4 slots total) 1980 or $1.6 each.

Karnium (refinement safeguard) comes only as a part of Munil's <colored> Box, 1980 or $1.6 each. Costumes, for the most part, come randomly from these boxes as well.
Buff pills come only as a part of Premium Pack, = 5880 or $4.8 each.

How this crap came to replace the monthly sub model is just beyond me.

[synesthetic]

How this crap came to replace the monthly sub model is just beyond me.

Because of "whales". The <1% of playerbases willing to spend pretty much more than the rest of the playerbase combined.

[eerie]

It is a worldwide, common spread, and accepted tactic. Hate it or love it, get over it. I've seen ingenuity from players go a long way. Either shell out the bucks or find another way to get ahead. Otherwise, forget the competition aspect of it and just enjoy the damn game.

[Chigikogou]

Korean SCII GSL Code S players says hello.

Mind asking those Korean SCII players if they would spend money on RO2?

[Alvana]

Mind asking those Korean SCII players if they would spend money on RO2?

Who knows, maybe one of them plays kRO2 w/ cash shop for a change of pace. This is beside the point though; there are players in this world which are considered as skilled elites and have jobs that gives them good incomes / enough money. It's your right to believe there ain't any, I won't argue anymore.

P.S: I'm one of them.

Edited by Alvana, 22 April 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Kirito83]

You expect a f2p title to not be pay2win? you jest. If you can't afford 10 or 15 a month to spend on a game, you really shouldn't be on the net at all.

hm don't agree with that ... rly successful games like "League of Legends" has no Pay2Win-Stores and still earn enough money

[Chigikogou]

Who knows, maybe one of them plays kRO2 w/ cash shop for a change of pace. This is beside the point though; there are players in this world which are considered as skilled elites and have jobs that gives them good incomes / enough money. It's your right to believe there ain't any, I won't argue anymore.

P.S: I'm one of them.

By the way, I should've scratched out my first quote.

Elite = E-Sporter that plays for money
Typical "Hardcore" Gamer = Spends most free time playing, has a normal real life job for sustenance

was comparing Hardcore > Casual and then you injected E-Sporter Elites and..

Elites don't play games that aren't made for Competitions mind you. Games that involve money for power.
Most MMOs like RO2 are not made for Competitions since the combat gameplay is like an exchange of dice roll and not by skill (e.g League of Legends, Defense of the Ancients, Star Craft 2 and FPS games)

GW2 Begs to differ as an MMO, but then again RO2 isn't.

Edited by Chigikogou, 22 April 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[Lucentos]

By the way, I should've scratched out my first quote.

Elite = E-Sporter that plays for money
Typical "Hardcore" Gamer = Spends most free time playing, has a normal real life job for sustenance

was comparing Hardcore > Casual and then you injected E-Sporter Elites and..

Elites don't play games that aren't made for Competitions mind you. Games that involve money for power.
Most MMOs like RO2 are not made for Competitions since the combat gameplay is like an exchange of dice roll and not by skill (e.g League of Legends, Defense of the Ancients, Star Craft 2 and FPS games)

GW2 Begs to differ as an MMO, but then again RO2 isn't.

However there are many players that want to "compete" and win at any cost so F2P is just capitalises the "wish of winning and the sence of selfimportance".

[indignation85]

It's almost like you can't have an opinion or point something out on the internet anymore without someone coming into the thread with a different opinion only to dismiss any evidence presented to them and immediately berate or belittle those who dare speak up.

Really now? I do not know what you've been reading, but most of the posts against the cash shop have little or no merit, that isn't an opinion, that's called complaining. I've read most of your posts and granted yes, you do have respectable reasons behind your stance against it, but it does not factor out two important things, the company that makes the game must have some sort of capital gain in order to further commit into investing time in a game we are all enjoying (because if we weren't enjoying it, we wouldn't be here in the first place) and second, this isn't an E-Sports game such as League of Legends where VIP would make a difference, it's a unique smaller scale MMO that in order to compete with the bigger names out there, must attract a player base to stay alive and unfortunately a cash shop is a proven method for that. Take it or leave it pretty much sums up that notion.

Besides, I do not see a ranking system anywhere here or third party websites showing raid progression such as the likes of WoW and other MMOs, it's only personal bragging rights so people can sleep at night. Why does it bother you and the rest of the community so much that somebody wants to pay for a service that someone in their marketing department deemed appropriate?

[Sakarai]

Really now? I do not know what you've been reading, but most of the posts against the cash shop have little or no merit, that isn't an opinion, that's called complaining. I've read most of your posts and granted yes, you do have respectable reasons behind your stance against it, but it does not factor out two important things, the company that makes the game must have some sort of capital gain in order to further commit into investing time in a game we are all enjoying (because if we weren't enjoying it, we wouldn't be here in the first place) and second, this isn't an E-Sports game such as League of Legends where VIP would make a difference, it's a unique smaller scale MMO that in order to compete with the bigger names out there, must attract a player base to stay alive and unfortunately a cash shop is a proven method for that. Take it or leave it pretty much sums up that notion.

Besides, I do not see a ranking system anywhere here or third party websites showing raid progression such as the likes of WoW and other MMOs, it's only personal bragging rights so people can sleep at night. Why does it bother you and the rest of the community so much that somebody wants to pay for a service that someone in their marketing department deemed appropriate?

I think you misinterpreted what I meant by that post. I meant you can't have a decent discussion anymore on either side because inevitably the people you're trying to converse with will lower themselves to simple name calling rather than actually trying to come up with a good compromise. Also this is a port it is not an initial release which means the development fees have probably for the most part been made up in sales by now. Though you could argue they might still be behind because of GOTW I'm not really sure but for now lets set that aside because a successful game will make a return regardless how deep they are in the negative. Companies don't need to fall onto the crutch of pay to win in order to make a profit because if that was the case a lot of the games I've mentioned would be failing when they're actually on top of the market right now. Literally LoL is the most played game on the internet with an active userbase of 32 million players monthly. Even with such a large player base they just recently lowered prices on over 72 of their skins in order to balance quality with price. This just goes to show you can change your business model which in general are imperfect by nature and still turn up profit because you will sell more for less. This game doesn't need to do much to attract a player base as anime MMOs are a rare breed, especially ones that aren't a grind and littered with pay to win cash shop items. I think if they took that step into westernization they could potentially seize a large segment of that market which is huge.

Now onto the argument that there is no ranking thus raiding progression doesn't matter. I'd actually argue at their core every MMOs end game raiding matters regardless if there are API keys tracking each guilds or individuals progression. It matters because you achieved something other players couldn't and to allow someone to buy into a marginal advantage so they have an easier time to obtain your gear and then improve it more than you're able to is ruining that raiders progression entirely. I'm not sure about everyone else but I'm against everyone being able to clear top tier raids the week they're released. I'm much more favorable of the WoW model. Where raids are released far above the gear or skill cap of current content and about 2+ weeks after that content has been downed by top tier guilds can be nerfed so other players can enjoy it. I think thats fair. You give top tier raiders time to clear the content and a bit of glory, then they put out guides how to down that raid and casuals can clear it later when its nerfed. Everybody wins.

I'll finish this off with pointing out Warp probably doesn't have any say in the matter of what gets sold and what doesn't. Much like Sega of America they're merely in charge of the port and even in that respect they're very dependent on the actual developer for assets which in that case would be Sega of Japan. Asking them to do anything about it is probably pointless but maybe in the future they could think twice about it and offer paid content that everyone can enjoy without feeling at a disadvantage if they don't buy in. As pay to win games generally aren't very successful as the very notion of it deters players from even installing the game.

I guess I'll just throw this in for the sake of interesting statistics.
http://img.gawkerass...g/ku-xlarge.jpg

Man I just can't end this rant... I'd also like to thank you for following proper forum etiquette; reading previous posts and responding in a respectable manner. You're free to converse with me anytime XD

Edited by Sakarai, 23 April 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[indignation85]

I'm also an avid LoL player, Season 1 silver, Season 2 gold, and current Season 3 plat V.

What you're referring to a cash shop are two different games entirely due to LoL being a highly skilled competitive e-sports game, which is why the fan base is attracted to it such as you and I and many of the millions of players playing it. It's a MOBA game designed for quick death matches and high replay value. The WoW model you've discussed is irrelevant due to a number of reasons, mainly being if there were the exact same VIP service in WoW (though it would never work) I highly doubt the guilds who are able to clear end game content after the nerfs could clear it pre-nerf. I stopped playing WoW when Mists was released, but I can tell you, VIP would not do much on hardcore firelands Rag pre-nerf, it's a skill based encounter which 10% HP would not assist a lot in.

Although I'm new to RO entirely, I do not know what end game content is like, but you just said yourself "It matters because you achieved something other players couldn't and to allow someone to buy into a marginal advantage so they have an easier time to obtain your gear and then improve it more than you're able to is ruining that raiders progression entirely" this is the exact thing I was referring to, so people could sleep at night, nothing to track progress, just personal bragging rights that have no merit to change the overall dynamic of the cash shop.

As for pvp, I can't speak on behalf of that other than the factor that most builds I've seen are catered to PvE with builds focusing more on more dmg = better pvp, which is never the case with any avid pvper knowing that health (VIT) is the most important stat. Low DPS > No DPS to the glass cannons out there

Edited by indignation85, 23 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Sakarai]

Gear is progress though no? Its not just a bragging right. Gear is physical proof that you are that small % of raiders that can clear raids pre nerfs. While I agree with you as a former WoW vet myself 10% isn't that large of an advantage but it is still an advantage nonetheless. Along with the socketing bonuses and refinements I think the cash shop could eventually pose to be a problem for raiders as it not only incentivizing casuals to buy it but hardcores as well because of max/min'ing. I'm against end game becoming that endless pursuit of gear progression with the daunting task to have to empty your wallet every time you progress. Though thats not the only thing I find odd about RO2s cash shop. I think certain costumes having the "Not sellable" tag on them is kind of strange as well as not giving the option for everything to be permanent. For example why can't you simply pay more for those mounts to be permanent? I know I've heard about something that extends durations but what happens if you take a break and it expires? Even then they can just charge more to make it permanent so it'd be as if you bought a few of those anyways. I'm not sure like I said I just found certain aspects of their cash shop to be confusing.

Edited by Sakarai, 23 April 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Iyeru]

At least Lime Odyssey has a storage system you expand with in-game money, rather than RO2's cash shop key thing.

[ODKN]

At least Lime Odyssey has a storage system you expand with in-game money, rather than RO2's cash shop key thing.

I could have sworn that LO was in an indefinite alpha phase... So you can't really compare it.

[GlumshanksGirl]

I don't think any game should give paying players a real advantage over non-paying players. Make them play the game like everyone else instead of throwing wads of cash to get buffs, armours, weapons, etc. Lucky box items are okay since it's a gamble *as long as they're put as item drops too*. I don't like p2w games because they pretty much defeat the purpose of playing and exploring the game as a whole in order to be competitive at anything. Plenty of people will pay money for purely artistic items, trust me. Leave buffing items and perma-gear with special stats to the in-game contests and shops.

[Iyeru]

I could have sworn that LO was in an indefinite alpha phase... So you can't really compare it.

Korean's Open Beta will be out soon. Our third alpha will be "Soon" as in, spring.

[ODKN]

Korean's Open Beta will be out soon. Our third alpha will be "Soon" as in, spring.

With AG "Soon" can mean "Never". XD But at least I know you are that Iyeru.

But yes, if you want Pay-to-win I can list off a slew of other "Free to play" games for your enjoyment.

Edited by ODKN, 23 April 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Iyeru]

But yes, if you want Pay-to-win I can list off a slew of other "Free to play" games for your enjoyment.

I don't like pay2win usually, and I can name off tons as well. Hell, I could do an entire song!

[Theoretical]

I don't like pay2win usually, and I can name off tons as well. Hell, I could do an entire song!

Lets hear it.

[Pewly]

Well, at first i was really excited about the game. I like almost everything in here,but...
I checked how item mall works in sea version. This is the only thing i hate in ro2, and its so huge i am not even sure i am going to play it anymore. pay 2 win. great. i am ready to pay for vip account(and when i say vip account i actually see no difference between subscription in any other game and vip), i was going to buy some costumes and mounts, i liked it a lot. i am spending a lot of money on customize only items in other games but i never will play pay2win game. I have money for this items, its not a problem. Problem is that i feel DIRTY after buying some +3k hp potion or +10 item enchancer. Like i was raped by some ugly... whatever. I WANT to pay your designer and coder for making a good costume, i want to pay them for a funny pet or something. I dont want to pay some idiot who at first cut something from game and then selling it to me for a HUGE ammount of money. 20$ for a bag? wait what? I can buy 1 FULL GAME that has more content then entire ro2 game. I can buy 5-6 indie games that has more coding behind it than this "super big bag" has.
If warpportal ro2 will have these pay2win items in item mall - i am not going to play it at all.
I want to buy vip account, which, probally, will have XP boost instead of stats, and i want to buy a lot of costumes for my lovely character, because, as i can see here, guys who make character items and models in ro2 are great, its masterpiece. I really fel in love with them. But the guys who made this bugged client installer, bugged game and item mall with "cut content from game then sell it" must be fired.
Screw pay2win.

Edited by Pewly, 23 April 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[ODKN]

Well, at first i was really excited about the game. I like almost everything in here,but...
I checked how item mall works in sea version. This is the only thing i hate in ro2, and its so huge i am not even sure i am going to play it anymore. pay 2 win. great. i am ready to pay for vip account(and when i say vip account i actually see no difference between subscription in any other game and vip), i was going to buy some costumes and mounts, i liked it a lot. i am spending a lot of money on customize only items in other games but i never will play pay2win game. I have money for this items, its not a problem. Problem is that i feel DIRTY after buying some +3k hp potion or +10 item enchancer. Like i was raped by some ugly... whatever. I WANT to pay your designer and coder for making a good costume, i want to pay them for a funny pet or something. I dont want to pay some idiot who at first cut something from game and then selling it to me for a HUGE ammount of money. 20$ for a bag? wait what? I can buy 1 FULL GAME that has more content then entire ro2 game. I can buy 5-6 indie games that has more coding behind it than this "super big bag" has.
If warpportal ro2 will have these pay2win items in item mall - i am not going to play it at all.
I want to buy vip account, which, probally, will have XP boost instead of stats, and i want to buy a lot of costumes for my lovely character, because, as i can see here, guys who make character items and models in ro2 are great, its masterpiece. I really fel in love with them. But the guys who made this bugged client installer, bugged game and item mall with "cut content from game then sell it" must be fired.
Screw pay2win.

Why do we even need super large bags anyhow? The only thing they are good for are pandora hoarders, as everything else stacks.