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#1 Chipotle

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

not asking for much, enable backslide in WoE and bg :)
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#2 Jaffer

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

No.

And before you compare it to Snap, if you don't understand the differences then go educate yourself. Backslide in Classic would be broken.
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#3 Chipotle

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:33 PM

As expected.... here come the champion players qqing even before there is a "discussion" ...

WoE right now is a acidbomb, gfist and sg fest....Ive woe'd like twice and I have yet to see an edp sinx that doesn't just break emps(I may be wrong and there are 2343242 sinx killing). Can we not have a 3-4 class woe?
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#4 Jaffer

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:03 PM

We have had this discussion before. Many times. It doesn't need to happen again.

If you want to even it out, then lets make Enchant Deadly Poison dispel-able?
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#5 Hrishi

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

Please no. If you haven't seen Sinxes killing, maybe you haven't been paying enough attention. Backslide and snap work completely differently, and backslide in WoE would be retarded.
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#6 KamiKali

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

I main assassin class and I agree with not having it implemented. Initially I thought it was pretty unfair, but cloak is already a huge advantage over most classes. And it's not only because of the sinx. If Stalkers were too have backslide, Flying kick + ability to backslide would make their mobility wayy too powerful.
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#7 Jaffer

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:50 PM

I'll just summarize the differences for you.

Snap requires a straight line target to the cell. It fails if you don't have one. Backslide doesn't.

Snap requires spirit spheres or Fury to cast. Spheres can be taken from you, Fury is dispellable. Backslide isn't stoppable in any way unless you hit a wall, and even thing, bingbing/bangbang

Snap requires 47 skill points to learn. Backslide is free.

Assassin Cross has the HP modifier of a Paladin and their main (and powerful) attack is not forced neutral. They can currently reach 54% demi-human reduction and 22k+ HP. Champion can only manage 15k HP and 44% demi-reduction. Their main killing skill is forced Neutral and requires a wide distribution of stats (STR/INT/DEX) to be useful. It is cancelable. It has a cast time.

There is no delay between backslide and attacking other than your ASPD. Snap disables Asura Strike for 2 seconds after it's cast.

Really good Sinx's good bingbing/bangbang to an emp and break it before anyone else could get to them. Champions can't. (though they could recall)

Backslide can be portal cast and depending on the castle that can get you out of CP etc. Snap can't.

Backslide would make Grimtoothing on the edge of ME 100% safe because you could just spam the GT+Backside button repeatedly. The moment you get sighted out you're behind your guild.

So yeah. Don't compare Backslide to Snap if you don't understand the differences. The ability to snap is pretty much the only reason Champion is a good class. Without it they are trash.
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#8 GuardianTK

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:03 PM

It was always like that in Pre-Renewal, Chip.

If I had to contribute to this topic, at least Flying Kick requires a target. Even then they have that chance of losing it mid-fight if a Recall was horribly timed and misplaced into a place where lots of AoE's are being thrown around while a Stalker is at the inn or something.
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#9 Jaffer

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

Isn't Backslide in Renewal WoE an iRO custom anyways?
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#10 GuardianTK

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:29 PM

Isn't Backslide in Renewal WoE an iRO custom anyways?

I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Zero about that, since I'm not too familiar with most of the kRO updates that come in. I just know that Backslide wasn't enabled back in Pre-Renewal.
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#11 Hrishi

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

It is an iRO custom as far as I know.
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#12 zr0rieu

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:51 PM

backslide on renewal is an iro custom change
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#13 cybernetic

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:35 PM

0 come woe with me again
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#14 Chipotle

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

-_-..forgot about this thread...

But yes backslide made woe hella fun. Its a quest skill(still a skill) and if it makes more people play thief chars in woe why not?

Cloacking does not makea sinx kill entire "competent" guilds,but it is just useful to eliminate HVT.

People are going to complain about everything that is suggested( and keep asking for 2x drops and exp) so I have nothing more to say but this. Giving the thief class a skill(which they already have) that will make them hard kill makes woe more fun/challenging imho(god forbid you have to work to hold down your fort). Id rather not just sit in a castle precasting sg and fiberlock bomb anyone that enters, but thats just me.

Edited by Chipotle, 26 April 2013 - 06:31 PM.

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#15 Hrishi

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

Too bad it apparently already works in WoE 2.
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#16 Jaffer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

God forbid you'd actually have to be a decent player to player one of the strongest classes in game instead of being freely given a skill that removes all danger from playing the class.
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#17 Xellie

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

Wish I had enough hotkeys to add backslide :(
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#18 Jaffer

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:10 AM

I wish I had enough keys to gear swap.
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#19 Xellie

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:24 AM

something something first aid? X_x
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#20 teffalockheart

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:08 AM

just -_-ing disable snap (omg, snap requires 47 skill point to learn... then do not learn it :rice: :rice: :rice:) and give backslide to all jobs :heh: :heh: :heh:

or...

just -_-ing disable any skill-movement except mouse click walk then :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

Edited by teffalockheart, 28 April 2013 - 10:09 AM.

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#21 Jaffer

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

Lets remove EDP and limit Acid Bomb to level 5! :D
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#22 teffalockheart

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

i thought we are discussing about extensive-mobility ? wtf with edp & AB...
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#23 Jaffer

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:37 PM

It's about as smart as comparing Snap and Backslide.

Snap is unfair in RENEWAL, where you can Snap and GoH freely. Champions can't do that. Snap is balanced in Classic.

Backslide is fair in RENEWAL because Guillotine Cross was nerfed to the ground. SinX is still one of the strongest classes. Backslide is not balanced on Renewal.

Champions require snap to be a good class. It stays.
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#24 Chipotle

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

It's about as smart as comparing Snap and Backslide.

Snap is unfair in RENEWAL, where you can Snap and GoH freely. Champions can't do that. Snap is balanced in Classic.

Backslide is fair in RENEWAL because Guillotine Cross was nerfed to the ground. SinX is still one of the strongest classes. Backslide is not balanced on Renewal.

Champions require snap to be a good class. It stays.


GX were nerfed in renewal....Did you even play renewal?Ever tried to live a crit gx with a +14 Kvm katar?

Please stop posting in this thread you clearly have not played a chars besides champ in woe. Im looking for a legitimate discussion not a "NO ITS TOO OP" type discussion. kthxbye
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#25 Jaffer

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:18 AM

GX were nerfed in renewal....Did you even play renewal?Ever tried to live a crit gx with a +14 Kvm katar?

Please stop posting in this thread you clearly have not played a chars besides champ in woe. Im looking for a legitimate discussion not a "NO ITS TOO OP" type discussion. kthxbye


Yes, I have. With Snap, Root and Cursed Circle. Fiberlock would work as well if you couldn't Backslide. Your Burst Damage skills are weak and require a chain of at least 3 to kill someone, which is what I was referring to. But the +14 pay to win weapon is certainly quite powerful. How about trying to make a GX on that level with the original RO mechanics? As in, when you fail a refine, your equipment actually breaks! How strong is a +9 KvM Katar Crit GX vs a +14? I hope the $200 spent refining the weapon was worth it.

Chars other than Champ I've played in WoE, hmm.
SinX
LK
Paladin
Scholar
High Priest
High Wizard (DD)
High Wizard (FS)
Biochemist (DD)
Biochemist (FS)
Ninja
Stalker (DD)

In high tier WoE, mind you. Not just iRO Zerg vs Zerg.

As stated, Backslide seems fair for pre-RE WoE at a low-mid level player/guild skill range. Which, depending on which server you played on or what guilds you played in is a very safe bet for iRO.

You seem to be disregarding the point. There are no limitations on Backslide. At all. There is no way to prevent a SinX from backsliding. At all. That's why it's unfair. There's. No. Counter.
You can Dispel + Absorb Champs to prevent them from Snapping. You can Spell Break Summon Spirit Sphere. Champions only have 15k HP tops, they die to 2-3 Bombs. They die to Guillotine Fist.
You can Dispel preserve on an unlinked Stalker to get rid of Flying Side Kick, not to mention in order to pick up FSK as a Stalker you have relinquished all your killing potential on that class.
Tarot Card will Dispel a linked Stalker and then you can get rid of FSK like that.

You can't magically make walls appear to prevent someone from backsliding, though. Maybe in your hands Backslide wouldn't be particularly dangerous on a SinX, though I would be quite concerned with a certain Thanatos + Megingjard SinX backsliding into us if she swapped to reduction gears a little better.

With no god items or MvP Cards a SinX can 1-shot all but the following Classes:
Professor
Stalker
SinX (when using reductions)
LK
Paladin

Not to mention they can get by with a 99/9x/4x build just fine if they are only focused on GvGing, and achieve in the realm of 23k HP without apples.

Giving them a free quick movement skill that has no cooldown and does not force a cooldown on other skills is giving them too much power. Backslide into a guild - Sonic Blow a High Wizard or Hide and knock off a few GTs - get sighted and backslide right back to safety. Might as well just give them a short range free teleport. Snap is a severely limited skill. It seems overpowered to mediocre players because for some reason the class designed to kill everyone 1v1 managed to get the better of them. Stop trying to 1v1 Champs, you are not supposed to be able to. Watch them in a GvG and tell me how much power Snap gives them. Now watch them when decent guilds are fighting and compare. Your lack of ability to ground control Champions is not a fault of the class design but of your own guild. A 2 second delay on Asura is long enough to kill that Champ.
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