60 replies to this topic

[flysteps]

Personally I think the idea of support classes or tank classes is an outdated concept. When we think about how this factors into the holy trinity gameplay, it makes forming a party unnecessarily difficult. We have a Tank Class, the Knight. That is 1 of 10. We have a healer class, the Priest. That is 1 of 10. In a party of 5 we need both these classes represented. So that means 8 of 10 classes is needed in in 3 of 5 slots. So lets do the math if the classes are represented equally and there are 100 people...
A total of 10 parties can be formed because there are 10 knights and 10 priests.
There are 80 other people who can be assigned to 30 slots.
50 People are out of luck or try to make it work with parties that are not ideal for facing high survivability monsters.

This is a fundamental gameplay flaw of designating a tank or support class with no regard to the other arbitrary limits. If we think about how the game was designed, its designed around the Holy Trinity for dungeon gameplay. 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS, but the numbers don't add up. Considering the method used to determine who holds these positions, its which class is best suited for the role. Those classes that might be able to yet are not perfect usually build to a DPS build so they can access other areas of the game. The Holy Trinity gameplay also affects Tanks in late game on Raids where only 1 or 2 are needed. The raids are another matter all together on poor design principles, as in this game due to wanting to milk cows, the raids are made to be exploited. So teams are going to end up being ranged classes and a tank like other poorly designed raids.

The best method for dealing with support builds is allowing everyone to have access to tank or support roles. This way when it is necessary or unnecessary they can switch to the role without much fuss. A method like a dual job system would suit this task.

Let just put that I am agree with you.
Dual job system is nice, but getting rid of role class entirely is a no no..
For some people, it is what makes them keep playing. Dual job is nice since player will get more flexibility and will give more set for different combinations.

[KainHyrial]

Dem' skills. Just wow.

[RunOenomaus]

I've seen people 2 man high level dungeons with an Alter class and another class, I forgot which one. So it's pretty amazing. @_@

[Reifnir]

I've seen people 2 man high level dungeons with an Alter class and another class, I forgot which one. So it's pretty amazing. @_@

I'm sorry, but there's NOTHING "amazing" in what they do in "Duo Dungeons Challenge". (It's Crescentia + Soulmaker, btw)
First of all, those are not high level dungeons, just normal mode 5-man ones, and out of those the only problematic ones are Sandstorm and Sandarman Fortresses, which they didn't even attempt.

Next, looking closely at their HP (one is well over 5k, the other - 4.7k WITHOUT a priest buff) you can easily tell they are geared in at least Hard Mode gear + some epics, and at this level of equipment, a damage dealer + support pair is capable of killing even some Hard Mode bosses given good coordination. Don't have a vid here, but a Wizard + Priest combo in a mix of Bapho+Coliseum gear can kill Drake (Ghost Ship) on Hard Mode, for that matter, and normal modes (save for Sandstorm and Sandarman) can be cleared without too much trouble at this point.

[Sakarai]

Guild wars tried to get rid of the "holy trinity" and it didn't work out very well because it became even EASIER to clear content since everyone can perform each role to a degree. People naturally want to fill a certain role of some form I don't understand why someone would want to prevent that.

[RunOenomaus]

Guild wars tried to get rid of the "holy trinity" and it didn't work out very well because it became even EASIER to clear content since everyone can perform each role to a degree. People naturally want to fill a certain role of some form I don't understand why someone would want to prevent that.

That's why it's called a Role-Playing game, after all.

[Alleggretto]

I honestly like Trinity. I like having people doing specific roles, but that's just me.
GW2 has the most boring dungeons I ever played in.
Catacombs and the Manor is all I got to. The game was too "Hold hands". and got boring meaning as Sakarai said, each class can perform just about everything to an extent. Being a Guardian didn't feel so.guardian like. [Tank.] Nothing was planned it was just, everyone rush in. e_e;
EVERY class had a heal, it was basically a zerg fest the mob.
So...Trinity ftw lol.

[joanne]

I played Sorc alot and found myself as the healer in dungeons alot cause priests are hard to come by

[HyperK2]

I like how at least a couple of the spells/spell names are borrowed from the Slayers universe.
In particular;
Diem Wind:
And
Bram Gush:

Not sure many people would recognize this, but it's pretty neet.

Edited by HyperK2, 26 April 2013 - 05:02 AM.

[Reifnir]

I like how at least a couple of the spells/spell names are borrowed from the Slayers universe.
Not sure many people would recognize this, but it's pretty neet.

It's unlikely these spell names will be used by SEA/Warpportal versions, since it was a fan-made translation pack.
So no Dragon Slave for ya, unfortunately.

[Lucentos]

I honestly like Trinity. I like having people doing specific roles, but that's just me.
GW2 has the most boring dungeons I ever played in.
Catacombs and the Manor is all I got to. The game was too "Hold hands". and got boring meaning as Sakarai said, each class can perform just about everything to an extent. Being a Guardian didn't feel so.guardian like. [Tank.] Nothing was planned it was just, everyone rush in. e_e;
EVERY class had a heal, it was basically a zerg fest the mob.
So...Trinity ftw lol.

I guess that this is done to make PvP more intricate.