46 replies to this topic

[iCruz]

I like Ninja but ah I'm wondering what are its pros and cons.
Also what does savage have that Ninja doesn't?

Edited by iCruz, 18 October 2010 - 07:10 PM.

[iKnowMyABCs]

I like Ninja but ah I'm wondering what are its pros and cons.
Also what does savage have that Ninja doesn't?

Ninja: More PvP than PvE

Savage: More PvE than PvP

You might wanna find a different font and font color so people can actually read.

[ApeKing]

Ninja: More PvP than PvE

Savage: More PvE than PvP

You might wanna find a different font and font color so people can actually read.

Ninjas are as good if not BETTER than Harlequins at PvE now.

[iKnowMyABCs]

Ninjas are as good if not BETTER than Harlequins at PvE now.

You've got to be kidding. Just because ninjas got a boost on ambush that doesn't mean it beats FD.

Edited by iKnowMyABCs, 18 October 2010 - 07:13 PM.

[iCruz]

thanks for the fast reply. So um If savage is more PvE does that mean it has aoe skills and more evasion or something else?

[iKnowMyABCs]

thanks for the fast reply. So um If savage is more PvE does that mean it has aoe skills and more evasion or something else?

Good close range aoe skills.

[iCruz]

Does Ninja have aoe skills though? and what is Harlequins and FD?

[iKnowMyABCs]

Does Ninja have aoe skills though? and what is Harlequins and FD?

All the class have aoe skills but harlie has really good close range aoe skills. FD is final decision one of the skill for jester.

EDITED

Edited by iKnowMyABCs, 18 October 2010 - 08:00 PM.

[DirtyClaw]

final decision.......

[ApeKing]

You've got to be kidding. Just because ninjas got a boost on ambush that doesn't mean it beats FD.

Ambush is far better than FD. It's basically a Mini Aerial Kick with no drawbacks. Not only is it stronger, but it can hit ANYTHING. Violent Blow was given a very wide AOE and range as well.

I dont like to admit it because my main was a Harle and I am still bitter about it, but Ninjas are becoming god tier at PvE. They can kill bosses faster than anything save Clerics.

Edited by ApeKing, 18 October 2010 - 07:44 PM.

[Kimimaro]

Pre-patch:
Ninjas = PvP
Harles = PvE
Post-patch:
Ninjas = Ass
Harles = OP.

[ApeKing]

Pre-patch:
Ninjas = PvP
Harles = PvE
Post-patch:
Ninjas = Ass
Harles = OP.

I hope you are trolling to trying to be funny.

[Kimimaro]

I hope you are trolling to trying to be funny.

I'm not. Ninja is complete garbage compared to their counterpart now with the new patch and nerfs.
You guys have Crazy Soul (which is a broken passive atm) and still have a decent lock/combo in PvP.
It's also hard for us to ground "lock" since VB stuns now.
The damage decrease for PS makes it fricking useless.
They're also going to nerf Fly in the future which will virtually destroy Ninjas and their combo game.
I wish I was trolling, but I'm not.

[ApeKing]

I'm not. Ninja is complete garbage compared to their counterpart now with the new patch and nerfs.
You guys have Crazy Soul (which is a broken passive atm) and still have a decent lock/combo in PvP.
It's also hard for us to ground "lock" since VB stuns now.
The damage decrease for PS makes it fricking useless.
They're also going to nerf Fly in the future which will virtually destroy Ninjas and their combo game.
I wish I was trolling, but I'm not.

I wasn't aware you were speaking of PvP only towards ninjas.

Also Crazy Soul is getting nerfed >_>

[Kimimaro]

If you juxtapose Ninjas and Harles, you can clearly see that Ninjas lose more in the patch.

While Harles maintain their strength in PvE, they also gain advantage in PvP because of their new catching skill and Crazy Soul (yes it's going to get nerfed, still a boost nonetheless).
On the other hand, Ninjas gain a small boost in PvE due to larger AOEs and more hits/dmg but it also impedes their combos in PvP, reducing their PvP capability.
I believe Harles will exceed Ninjas far more than Barunson had intended even if this was all for balancing sake.
Aside from that, as an avid PvPer, this 'nerf' greatly disappoints me, because I much rather have Ninjas be subpar in PvE while being effective in PvP.
It would've been the best for the both of us, if they left burrow alone, but apparently that's asking for too much!

Edited by Kimimaro, 18 October 2010 - 10:20 PM.

[ApeKing]

Harles have been beaten to a pulp ever since the Aram patch. RS and FD no longer hit grounded people/enemies so locking is hard in PvP now. I agree that Crazy Soul is absurd atm, but I'm sure they will nerf it so hard it becomes useless. Ninjas will always be superior in PvP compared to Harlequins, and now they are catching up in the the PvE compartment. You just need to change tactics (albeit unwanted ones) in PvP. Harles dont have ANYTHING over Ninjas other than Claw Fishing and CS (which as we stated was going be nerfed). Ninjas still have a multitude of ways to attack and catch someone. Harlequins have like 2, three at most (shout SUCKS). And dont forget our Burrow was nerfed too!

While I agree negative changes (which have yet to happen, keep your fingers crossed) are negative towards Ninja's, Harlequins have had it worse than Ninjas since day one. At least you can still be competent on both sides.

[DirtyClaw]

FD > Ambush

Reason being: All harlequins can get level 5 FD, however not all ninjas can get level 5 ambush. It's based on preference, since the cooldown changes and level 5 ambush makes it nearly impossible to air combo in PvP. So unless you're going to skill reset everytime you PvE and PvP, then you're gonna have to be slightly crippled in either PvP or PvE.

[ApeKing]

^ have fun trying to hit anyone in PvP with FD that isn't standing up.

Edited by ApeKing, 18 October 2010 - 10:44 PM.

[Kimimaro]

^ have fun trying to hit anyone in PvP with FD that isn't standing up.

It's all about timing, wanting to hit fallen opponents is wanting an easy mode.
You can still catch people with FD, then combo, time the RP then repeat.
It's been like that for us Ninjas, we never had a reliable combo/lock like Harles did and chances are we never will.

[ApeKing]

It's all about timing, wanting to hit fallen opponents is wanting an easy mode.
You can still catch people with FD, then combo, time the RP then repeat.
It's been like that for us Ninjas, we never had a reliable combo/lock like Harles did and chances are we never will.

It was reliable but it was CHEAP. I hated locking people with FD/RS/US/RP. Made me feel dirty.

[Kimimaro]

Enough said.

[ApeKing]

Does that Gambit have the normal Crazy Soul? Because it looks like that's the only thing saving him from locks in this. I dont understand why you posted this when I already agreed with you.

Edit: What the hell this Shadow is terrible why would he attack him when hes burrowed. MORE THAN ONCE.

Edit2: The Gambit knows what he's doing. I never said it was impossible to PvP as a Harle/Gambit/W.E. It's just not easy, Trust me its not as easy as hes making it out to be. And if you take out Crazy Soul (I know he has it I saw him walk through more than one attack)Its gonna be even harder.

Edited by ApeKing, 18 October 2010 - 11:28 PM.

[Kimimaro]

Does that Gambit have the normal Crazy Soul? Because it looks like that's the only thing saving him from locks in this. I dont understand why you posted this when I already agreed with you.

Edit: What the hell this ninja is terrible why would he attack him when hes burrowed. MORE THAN ONCE.

The video is referred to the thread.
Just to give a good example of how a Ninja or a Shadow matches up against a Harle/Gambit/Savage now.

And why not spam for a chance of catching him once he pops out? I do that, it's not like MP is a problem at that lvl.
I don't think ANY of the ninjas on this server can do any better.

EDIT: I never said PvPing as a Harle was easy. In fact, PvPing as both class isn't but it's safe to say for now that it's slightly easier for Harles to a certain extent.

Also, as an experienced Ninja, after watching the match, I can say that was the ONLY thing that Ninja could've done, there's literally nothing else he could do. And it's a damn shame how futile his efforts were.

Edited by Kimimaro, 18 October 2010 - 11:38 PM.

[ApeKing]

The video is referred to the thread.
Just to give a good example of how a Ninja or a Shadow matches up against a Harle/Gambit/Savage now.

And why not spam for a chance of catching him once he pops out? I do that, it's not like MP is a problem at that lvl.
I don't think ANY of the ninjas on this server can do any better.

Because its obvious he's gonna wait until your animation ends, pop out, and FD you? He did it like 3 times you'd think he would wisen up to it after the 1st one. You also are simply pitting the two against each other. What about against other classes?

[Kimimaro]

Because its obvious he's gonna wait until your animation ends, pop out, and FD you? He did it like 3 times you'd think he would wisen up to it after the 1st one. You also are simply pitting the two against each other. What about against other classes?

There were times where he did actually catch him with mist or RP after burrowing.
It's a risk you have to take sometimes.

When it comes down to other classes, you can forget about Dragoons (regardless of their skill lvl) because they'll simply obliterate anyone and anything.
If a Dragoon is to lose to ANYONE than they should just quit the fricking game lol.
Harles should do a decent job against Myrms/Berserkers because of Crazy Soul; As for Ninjas, it'd definitely be a challenge, Bloody Roar to wear off sleep, SD will be a b#tch to avoid now that our burrows nerfed.
Both classes should do just fine against the Mage class.
For Archers, I can't really say, it's really who catches who first. If I catch em with a RP then I can try my best to lock (unless they don't spam AAS) even though the DPS is crap due to taking out VB out of the lock sequence. Same can be done for Harles, catch and continue to combo/lock, also CS really helps avoid their launches.