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October 21, Expectations, take 2.


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#201 Kadelia

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:35 AM

issue with aspd is its like, similar to pre-renewal for low agi and the effect of aspd is lowered per point of AGI as you invest further, and you get +5 aspd for not putting a shield on, making most people actually faster than pre-renewal, unless you waste points going full agi, then you are slower than before.

Anyway, nothing wrong with HIT. Gravity just wanted some degree of miss chance for people not investing in DEX, which happens now. Before you could get like 20 DEX and have 100% hit on everything by the time you were 8x-9x. Now archers actually have a better HIT rate than melee classes (gasp!)
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#202 GuardianTK

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:41 AM

Basic cost of logging in and playing is free, it should be expected that expanding content costs money. Anyone who argues otherwise either A) has never played a "free" game before 2) has about as much understanding of economics as a six-year-old 3) has a major sense of self-entitlement 4) is an idiot. Pick one.

Quoting this because people need to see this. xD
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#203 akosinico

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:09 AM

I so want a calculator that will show the actual aspd for renewal :)
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#204 holatuwol

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:39 AM

I so want a calculator that will show the actual aspd for renewal :)

There is one that's accurate for jRO and kRO renewal. They're still working out the formula used by iRO renewal, though. You can try bookmarking it and checking in from time to time to see if/when it guesses your own ASPD correctly.

http://ro.doddlercon...pdcalc/calc.php
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#205 akosinico

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:48 AM

@holatuwol
thanks :)
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#206 Kadelia

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:52 AM

that aspd calc is WAY off. It has my gypsy at like 8 lower aspd than she has with a bow.
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#207 KariChan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:21 AM

Basic cost of logging in and playing is free, it should be expected that expanding content costs money. Anyone who argues otherwise either A) has never played a "free" game before 2) has about as much understanding of economics as a six-year-old 3) has a major sense of self-entitlement 4) is an idiot. Pick one.


What?
I've never played a F2P that's -forced- me to pay to expand content. FFXI and whatnot of course has expansions and add-ons you do have to pay for though.
It should not be expected to be forced to stop playing once you hit a certain point, unless you spend money, otherwise it's hardly F2P.
Aeria, OGPlanet, OutSpark, gPotato, and many other popular F2P MMO publishers have never released a game [that I know of, or rather, that I've played.] that -required- me to pay money to proceed in content.
They live purely off Cash Shop and promotions for that Cash Shop.

Generally what you should expect from a F2P MMO, is to only have to pay money if you want little enhancements.
Exp/Drop Rate/Money increasing buff items, flashy/spiffy costumes and hairstyles/colors, etc.

Of course, either way, if iRO makes it this way, we have to either deal with it or quit.
Personally I plan to just deal with it, but that doesn't mean I think it's proper.
The reasoning is quite bad, and the method is just worse.

The only reasons given were to "prevent bots" and "make us money".
IMO, make Valkyrie a One-Time-Fee server instead. Paying that $1 to make an account will be much more effective on the bots. As for the bots that do pay to make accounts, you're making money, from what I've read that's all that matters, eh?

Oh, and one last note:
Most botters are botting to make Zeny, to sell to other players. Meaning, they have money to spend. Meaning, paying $1 every so often to make one of their bots a better bot isn't going to be an issue for them whatsoever, so the whole plan, again, is completely ineffective and a pointless nuisance to all legitimate players.
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#208 Pingchan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

In F2P MMOs I've seen a lot of bad crap in the item shops; over powered expensive items, paying for some skills on some classes, etc. But never something as necessary as a job change. Especially a job change that isn't just some expanded class, but third jobs, which you'll need if you want to compete in WoE in the future, or enjoy most, if not all, future content.
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#209 Kadelia

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:41 AM

that is incorrect, some of the mmo companies you listed do in fact. for example, in mabinogi you have to pay money to essentially do the rebirthing-type thing to advance your character further after the max normal lvl.

Also a lot of those games you have to pay just to get more than 1 character slot. Same with character hair styling. In RO you gain all of these features to their maximum limit without paying. You got to pay somewhere.

Anyways, what are you going to do if these "outrageous" attempts for a business to make money are enacted? Quit? So they make exactly $0 less off you than they already were? lol?
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#210 IronFist

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:44 AM

does ragnarok have a phonecall service for KP or even can i just send some cash through with my account details? some people stray away from using credit cards on the internet
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#211 IronFist

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:50 AM

I see alot of complants about bots, but how many people acutally report bots to the gms, i think if it was easier to send botting informantion throught to gms while ingame alot more people would help get rid of bots

as for the stones, i think its a way to get a real look at how many real players actually are playing ro. currently im sure most people will only 3rd class 1 or 2 chars in the first week allowing the gm team to get a look at how mnay people are actually playing the game
when you look at other mmo ro has a low population compared
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#212 Miyuki

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:53 AM

that is incorrect, some of the mmo companies you listed do in fact. for example, in mabinogi you have to pay money to essentially do the rebirthing-type thing to advance your character further after the max normal lvl.

Actually you stop gaining stats or was it you stop leveling once you hit a certain age on Mabi I think. You either rebirth, get your age (and level) reset but keep your stats and do it all over again or you stick with your character with limited stats.

...Or that was for something related to the skills... Either ways, for that game in particular, you're gonna fail pretty hard for the late game contents if you don't rebirth.

Edited by Miyuki, 21 October 2010 - 11:57 AM.

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#213 Kadelia

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:02 PM

Yeah, basically Miyuki just supported what I said with specific details. There you have it, a "free" game from nexon where you will fail hardcore later on without paying money. Aeria and gpotato games are just as guilty, I have played them too. They sell their gift cards at CVS/7-Eleven for a reason you know. ;P
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#214 PlatypusWill

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:02 PM

let me ask this then because i am lazy and dont want to read through everything... Will there still be a Free to Play server available after valk renews? and do we keep all items and zeny if we already had Valkyrie Characters? So far what i gathered was you only pay for points to get 3rd lvl job correct?

Edited by PlatypusWill, 21 October 2010 - 01:10 PM.

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#215 ikeren

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:04 PM

How important is it to rebirth your trans characters anyway?
Wait nvm.

Edited by ikeren, 21 October 2010 - 01:05 PM.

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#216 Iseal

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:11 PM

Actually, rebirth is free there now, has been for like a year. Just gotta hit a certain age.
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#217 Boxinguru

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:34 PM

I think that needing to purchase 3rd job is a good idea. It is so easy to make 100 free points anyway.
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#218 Ruilionheart

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:36 PM

The fact that the 3rd classes were going to be impemented was the reason me and a BUNCH of my friends came to play RO again after a long time and this:

Valkyrie 3rd job changes will be locked. You will need to use a Reset Stone (see above) to perform the 3rd job change. You will get a bunch of buffs at the end of the quest (like BM and BG and all stat food). This change is to incentivize serious players, and to limit bot access to the higher levels. There are many ways of acquiring 100pts, Super Rewards IE the offers and surveys we have; and Playspan gives 100pts for signing up. The game is F2P and massive amounts of contents are available for Free, but a 1 time purchase to get access keeps bots lower, and gives us the revenue to keep things improving.


...is exactly why we're leaving IF it stays that way.
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#219 Dantemss

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:39 PM

It's a one-time 1 dollar payment per character. I don't know why people are making such a huge deal of this. Gravity has to make some money, you know...

Plus it does not prevent, but certainly limits the number of third class bots. If this works well enough, people can just report third class bots and then bots will be limited to first and second class.

Seriously if you refuse to pay even 1 dollar for this amount of content, go ahead and leave.

Edited by Dantemss, 21 October 2010 - 01:42 PM.

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#220 Ruilionheart

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:47 PM

Sure, and how exactly do you charge 1$?

Also, i'm from Europe.
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#221 Berek

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:49 PM

You get 100 points for registering in Playspan... they're going to put the Stone at the price of 1$. You just use it with those 100 points.
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#222 KariChan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:52 PM

I like how you guys brought up Nexon when it wasn't even one of the ones I listed. They're one of the worst F2P companies out there.
Either way, like someone else mentioned, the Rebirth system on Mabinogi has a free option now, results of people complaining because it was pointless to play unless you had a method to rebirth.

It's a one-time 1 dollar payment per character. I don't know why people are making such a huge deal of this. Gravity has to make some money, you know...

Plus it does not prevent, but certainly limits the number of third class bots. If this works well enough, people can just report third class bots and then bots will be limited to first and second class.

Seriously if you refuse to pay even 1 dollar for this amount of content, go ahead and leave.


"Gravity has to make some money"?
Because they don't already have a few premium servers, with a fair amount of people paying them monthly, along with both premium and free servers having a Kafra Shop that people blow loads of money on.

It's not about the price tag, so much as the reasoning being pointless.
It does almost nothing to the botters, and instead inconveniences a ton of people for no reason at all.
However charging a $1 fee to make an account would actually make Gravity some money, and at the same time make it inconvenient for botters to continue. They wouldn't stop, no, unless we get something like captchas, they never will. But it definitely makes small-time multi-account botters a lot less common, and could make the GMs jobs a bit easier.
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#223 Ruilionheart

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:57 PM

Hum, i see. If that's how it is, then why not? :)

Anyway... my doubt is: Do you have to buy a stone every time you make a different 3rd job?
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#224 Pepperoncini

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:59 PM

issue with aspd is its like, similar to pre-renewal for low agi and the effect of aspd is lowered per point of AGI as you invest further, and you get +5 aspd for not putting a shield on, making most people actually faster than pre-renewal, unless you waste points going full agi, then you are slower than before.

Anyway, nothing wrong with HIT. Gravity just wanted some degree of miss chance for people not investing in DEX, which happens now. Before you could get like 20 DEX and have 100% hit on everything by the time you were 8x-9x. Now archers actually have a better HIT rate than melee classes (gasp!)


I think they were moving in the right direction by adding in a degree of miss chance for lower DEX characters, but as it is right now, I think you miss a little too often. Even at lvl 99 with 50 or more dex, half of the mobs from 80-100 are going to flee you a lot. That, coupled in with the STR nerf makes leveling in the 80-100 range much more difficult for some classes. Knights, rogues, and even monks to a certain degree feel very underpowered in that level bracket because of the need for excessive Dex to hit most monsters.

With the STR nerf and need for high Dex, it seems goofy to not build melee characters with 9X AGI, 7X DEX, and whatever you can spare into str,vit and int if you need it.
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#225 KariChan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:59 PM

Hum, i see. If that's how it is, then why not? :)

Anyway... my doubt is: Do you have to buy a stone every time you make a different 3rd job?


From the information they've given us, yeah.
You need the item to change jobs, and I'm assuming it's consumed. And I'm a bit confused on which ones are tradable and not, but even if it wasn't consumed, the non-tradable versions would be useless for a lot of people considering Valkyrie is full of people who have multiple characters on different accounts for multi-clienting.
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