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Warrior & Knight (attack power/DPS)


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#76 SonicTMP

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

uhh did you miss what Xaeus calculations did? Shield Cannon IS useful. If only bash and AS are effected by haste then it becomes less so but SC would get that haste benefit too. Sadly knights don't get animation bonus for haste. It be pretty obvious witha lvl 3 guardian and I just tested it while typing this. Wandrin would probably be the best to have a say in this since he's the one who was doing animation frame time. Though either way, Xaeus already mathed that SC is useful unless haste does not effect that lone skill.

And you do need to take into account Rage Stike. It hits a tiny bit harder but it's also has 20s Cd vs Cannon's 30sCD. They can use it far more often. We'd need animation time on it (and a dps warrior input) but assuming it's 1 hit it's most likly DPA faster than cannon. The little edge like that will help.

Is it enough? I don't know. We don't have one pushing for warrior DPS talkings atm.


As for "RAW" AP. Unbuffed Warriors have more you can't deny this. Go into a database and look at armor. The same peice is equal for knights/warriors. It's only with weapons is there a differance in AP. After you start adding in AP buffs knight will have more constant AP. A warrior with berserk up will be ahead for 30 seonds out of every minute though.
In reverse warriors eventually get more defence rating than we do when tank spec down the road. Scaling is going to cause fun things like that for everyone.

As for the burden of proof coment. Go look at skills yourself. A sin has a 30% ap boost constant while the ranger has a 9% AP boost rotation buff. At some point in gear the assassins is likely to out AP the ranger. Does it mean they will beat them in dps? I don't have that info so i don't know for sure but if you want to just look at it on the surface, like most of the people in that thread rather than actually testing anything, then it's your problem not mine.

Edited by SonicTMP, 14 May 2013 - 06:25 PM.

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#77 Zainox

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

I am really new and only just starting. So I'm not sure if this even works or not. But compared to a Warrior wielding one weapon which is the 2H sword, the Knight has a 2 equips which is the 1H sword and shield. If you are enchanting, wouldn't you get more bonus from enchanting 2 items (A sword and a shield for Knight)
over 1 (2H sword for Warrior) which would also cater into 'endgame' strength? This could be extra Int used for Battle Manual, Extra Int you would have on top of the warrior giving you some more crit chance.

Plus, I feel this is the right spot to get it properly judged, so I will post the skill build I plan to go for here.
http://www.ro2skills.../class/kni.html

It's very similar to @SonicTMP , but with a few differences.
With mine, I decided to go against shield fortress, just for the main reason it says I can't make any moves or attack? I assume this is used as a panic button to waste some time while you get healed or spam pots (if you can use pots in this state?) I would rather have a defence bonus that still lets me dish out some damage in the meantime.

I also went full Aura Shield because I went against Shield Fortress and Aura Armor and I still wanted to make use of some of the Dam reduction buffs Knight's give.

I put my extra points into Shield Bash, just so I deal that little bit of extra damage while trying to knock down my enemies.

What do you think?


I also have a question about Shield Bash. It has the effect to knock down, what exactly does that do? Is it kind of like a stun and they are unable to attack for 3 seconds?
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#78 Reppu

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

Not having Shield Fortress makes you a worthless slot, flat out. Never, ever, EVER Sacrifice Shield Fortress as a Knight, even a DPS Knight. It is the ONLY reason you'd be taken over a Rogue, Ranger, Assassin, or Sorcerer.

The 50% Damage Reduction for yourself is amazing. it's the fact it also provides 25% to your entire team, is why Shield Fortress should NEVER be sacrificed.

uhh did you miss what Xaeus calculations did? Shield Cannon IS useful. If only bash and AS are effected by haste then it becomes less so but SC would get that haste benefit too. Sadly knights don't get animation bonus for haste. It be pretty obvious witha lvl 3 guardian and I just tested it while typing this. Wandrin would probably be the best to have a say in this since he's the one who was doing animation frame time. Though either way, Xaeus already mathed that SC is useful unless haste does not effect that lone skill.

And you do need to take into account Rage Stike. It hits a tiny bit harder but it's also has 20s Cd vs Cannon's 30sCD. They can use it far more often. We'd need animation time on it (and a dps warrior input) but assuming it's 1 hit it's most likly DPA faster than cannon. The little edge like that will help.

Is it enough? I don't know. We don't have one pushing for warrior DPS talkings atm.


As for "RAW" AP. Unbuffed Warriors have more you can't deny this. Go into a database and look at armor. The same peice is equal for knights/warriors. It's only with weapons is there a differance in AP. After you start adding in AP buffs knight will have more constant AP. A warrior with berserk up will be ahead for 30 seonds out of every minute though.
In reverse warriors eventually get more defence rating than we do when tank spec down the road. Scaling is going to cause fun things like that for everyone.

As for the burden of proof coment. Go look at skills yourself. A sin has a 30% ap boost constant while the ranger has a 9% AP boost rotation buff. At some point in gear the assassins is likely to out AP the ranger. Does it mean they will beat them in dps? I don't have that info so i don't know for sure but if you want to just look at it on the surface, like most of the people in that thread rather than actually testing anything, then it's your problem not mine.


Unbuffed AP is irrelevant. Concentration is a 'perma' quality buff. Even if you can't 'technically' start a fight with it, it's a permanent 20% AP.

That said, uh, you're kind of cherry-picking examples for some reason or another. Skills do matter, yes, but only when they invoke skill synergy. Rogue, Sorcerer, and Ranger all have this, which is why they're top-tier DPS. And it's why Assassin isn't as good as Rogue; it has no skill synergy that produce explosive effects.

This is probably why you also think Burst Damage effects are good; R/R/S are unique in that their 'lesser' skills have synergy with their burst skills, and actually benefit further when being utilized properly.

Warrior, Assassin, Knight, Monk, Wizard, and so on? Do not have this same combo effect. And this is why they're all 'inferior' DPS. And it's why I use the label 'Consistent Burst DPS', but mostly for Sorcerer. They're burst DPS... that consistently bursts.

Edited by Reppu, 14 May 2013 - 07:19 PM.

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#79 Zainox

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:18 PM

Not having Shield Fortress makes you a worthless slot, flat out. Never, ever, EVER Sacrifice Shield Fortress as a Knight, even a DPS Knight. It is the ONLY reason you'd be taken over a Rogue, Ranger, Assassin, or Sorcerer.

The 50% Damage Reduction for yourself is amazing. it's the fact it also provides 25% to your entire team, is why Shield Fortress should NEVER be sacrificed.



It does indeed seem great for teams, but for solo won't you just be prolonging your death? Can you attack or do ANYTHING in this state? From the description I assume you pretty much turn into a statue for 10s becoming a punching bag.
If you don't plan to tank much, is it still really that needed? Most people in this topic seem to go with it, so it does seem to be favored. But for a DPS I struggle to see why, especially with solo.. :/
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#80 SonicTMP

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

@reppu

Unbuffed is important. You need a base to work off of. without the base who woudl we even figure out half this stuff anyway? Also don't forget that any time not attacking a monster is aura not gained and concs ticking away. Movement fights can mess you up now and then depending on mechanics. Warriors and don't need to spend their main resource to keep berserk up like we do. Its easier for them to waste the buff but they have more control over using it.

You accuse me of cherry-picking but you won't let this burst argument go. You are not using the term correctly. You are not accouting for the length of the fight and how to average out dps.

Also you're on a topic disuccsing the potiental of knight/warrior dps but want to lump them in the 'inferior'' dps" group. Classy.

@ Zaniox

Solo you won't have much point for shield fortress. Tell me though, are you going to stop playing at 50 once you finish all solo content? No other tank has an party defence skill like knights do. In case of boss aoe shield fortress can drastically help and save others from death depending mechanics.

As tank you shoudl ahve aenough threat that the stand still won't hurt you and its less damage overall during that time.
As dps it will be on shorter cool down, plus if the team doesn't havea tank knigth then you provide valuable support. The more you provide in the more valuable you are.
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#81 Reppu

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

If you're not attacking a monster within a 45 second time frame, that's player error. Just saying.

And, yes. They are inferior DPS to Rogues, Sorcerers, and Rangers. We're not even going to begin to pretend to argue that. But they bring utility. Well, Knights do. Inferiority does not need to mean ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS (That's DPS Priests~), just they are not as good at Pure DPS.

But the added utility of Shield Fortress cannot be denied, and their added survivability (Surviving things that would one shot and force a 30-50 minute rez). Am I advocating taking a DPS Knight over a DPS Rogue/Ranger/Sorcerer? Well, not a Sorcerer. The other two? Perhaps.

Regardless, you're still 'wrong' on how Burst skills work. Burst skills are not always, but sometimes are, DPS gains. To assume they ALWAYS are, is foolish. That is all.

Let's just agree to disagree and move on. You like Shield Cannon, I say it sucks.
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#82 DELiTO

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

We are missing something guys. A Knight should out tank AND out damage a warrior at the same time.. Or maybe the warrior class is yet to be updated.

Edited by DELiTO, 14 May 2013 - 09:25 PM.

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#83 SonicTMP

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:11 PM

We have the DPA math done on cannon. Xaeus has shown, thru math, that it is an increase to overall dps to use shield cannon.

Every time it's used it's more dps, using it multiple times over the course of the fight will increase overall dps. Prove this wrong. Tell me averages don't work by explaing how total damage done divide by time takes = DPS. It's a basic concept thats beena round for some time and this being a wow clone uses the exact same idea.

If you don't want to take the skill then don't. You won't do as much dps as a knight with it.

also i beat a ranger on a couple boss fights in RHD today. Wonder how that happened... <-bait

Edited by SonicTMP, 14 May 2013 - 09:25 PM.

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#84 Zainox

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:12 PM

@SonicTMP and @Reppu

I see where you guys are getting at now. I usually play selfishly in MMO's, but I see now if I want to party I will need party skills. I suppose I should grab this skill atleast for the team buff alone. Plus, chances are I want be the main tank in the party, so it would be a great help to them with bosses and such.

Also, can I have an opinion on this?

I am really new and only just starting. So I'm not sure if this even works or not. But compared to a Warrior wielding one weapon which is the 2H sword, the Knight has a 2 equips which is the 1H sword and shield. If you are enchanting, wouldn't you get more bonus from enchanting 2 items (A sword and a shield for Knight)
over 1 (2H sword for Warrior) which would also cater into 'endgame' strength? This could be extra Int used for Battle Manual, Extra Int you would have on top of the warrior giving you some more crit chance.


This is the main reason I am picking Knight over Warrior, in hopes that extra enchantments helps me that little bit more, I just need reassurance I can do this and it will be worth it? Or does shield and sword count as one item in this game?

Edited by Zainox, 14 May 2013 - 09:13 PM.

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#85 SonicTMP

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:18 PM

I beleive (not sure about this) that enchant is a % increase to AP/Defence of an item. So a 2h will get more from enchanting than the kngiht 1h sword.
As it stands 1h+sheild stats (str/agi/vit/hit/etc) = 2h stats. The only differance is the shield doesn't have AP. So yes you can enchant it. Yes it requires the weapon enchant stones, but it will raise the defence of the sheild.

The wheltstones work differently as i think they are justa flat % increase to your AP. Other classes that have 2 weapon slots would be able to double up like knights can.
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#86 Reppu

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

... Except Xaeus post also point out that the DPS gain, if it's there (he left margin for error), is minor at best.

Aura Strike + Bash + 1/3rd Bash = 106.48% weapon damage.
Shield Cannon = 119.68% weapon damage.

Also this wasn't properly updated for having 5/5 Head Crush as the AS/B/B user, which the SC user would not have due to point constraints (Unless you're a total berk).

That said, we're looking at a 13%ish DPS loss. Maybe. This is actually smaller when you note AS/B/B has a higher chance of proccing more Aura Masteries. A small chance more, but it shifts the direction just a wee bit more.

All in all? The difference is very small.You'd be trading, at the end of the day, Sub 10% DPS for a package of utility. If that 10% DPS is worth more than that, by all means. It really isn't, though.
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#87 Scourgebane

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:23 AM

I'm also fairly new to the game but I have a LvL 50 Tank Warrior.

With defender on I currently have 1483 Attack Power. When I Tank I usually have no issues keeping the aggro, even from party members that definitely outgear me(I only have half the RHD stuff).

I do have Rage Strike and I notice that my threat build up is very similar if I use Rage Strike over AS on single Targets, however, Rage Strike hit's up to 3 Targets. For mobing up trash I like to store up extra 50 rage for the next pack to just unleash a rage strike, resulting in a very high alpha and thus allowing for some insane multi target aggro. Having up to 7k Aggro on 3 targets with the single press of a button does have it's benefits from time to time.

Another thing I would like to point out that I yet have to see noticed in this thread, Great Swords have significantly more attack than Long Swords. Also, Great Swords have around 40% more stats than a Long Sword, which pretty much nullifies the bonus of wielding a Shield because that's the exact same offensive bonuses.

I don't know how that factors into all this, mean looking at the end gear stats from the Vendors the Great Sword has 595 raw attack and 127 STR, while the Long Sword has 473 raw attack and only 69 STR(with the Shield they are very even with 128 STR). The Great Sword has 2 gem slots, which is the same as Long Sword + Shield with each having one slot.

While I do agree that at endgame Defender will make Warriors worse at "dps" while it is on compared to a Knight, I do think the difference is not that severe because with higher end gear the raw attack bonus difference between the Great Sword and the Long Sword get bigger and bigger.

But I think that once you turn off Defender the Warrior should "win" because of that higher raw attack bonus.

I might be completely wrong here but that's what I get out of it so far.

edit. Also, are Warriors not stacking STR more than Knights because of Parry? Atleast until you reach a certain hard cap point ... Meaning the Tanking Warrior might have more gemed STR in his gear than a Knight.

Edited by Scourgebane, 15 May 2013 - 08:00 AM.

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#88 Xaeus

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:32 AM

*snip*
3.5% weapon damage per second for level 1, 5% per second for level 5.
Using my napkin math from above gives us these two comparisons.
Choice A: is SC and only level 1 HC, then it should be approximately 119.68%+7% weapon damage
Choice B: which is AS and level 5 HC, which should be approximately 106.48%+10% weapon damage

You cannot add those terms together in this form as the weapon damage from the bleed does not have a chance to crit.

The difference between Head Crush 1 and 5 is painfully small, it is always going to be a gain over lower levels of it, but the margin is tiny.

Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear. The choice is still sort of nebulous. Until we know for sure we can get the AS/Bash/Bash rotation above the point in haste we need for it to be better, SC at level 5 will be more dps.
*snip*

I did do the approximate math on HC5 versus HC1 rotation under the contested circumstances. The DoT ticks do not appear to be affected by haste (if they are it will make a difference in output, but not in a comparison), and this was assuming the interval for the skills takes place within the assumed 1.7-2 seconds we believe Shield Cannon takes to cast. Essentially, Level 1 HC is 3.5% weapon damage per second and Level 5 HC is 5% weapon damage per second, this makes our approximation such that you can simply add 3.5% weapon damage for however long your interval is. Just remember this is theory and that the DoT only ticks every 2 seconds, so if you're fighting something and it dies before the 10 second mark it will skew the expected weapon damage per second of HC. Though, over a long enough interval (5-6 minutes) it should be very close to the predicted 3.5-5%.

Regarding the AS/B/B or SC choice, I can't really endorse either angle yet, but, I would point out one thing I've been spending a small bit of time on and see if it makes sense to anyone else...

Aura Strike skill hits for substantially harder than the individual ticks of shield cannon (45% vs 29.33%), so what happens if we can assume the below:

(Recall the 1.36 multiplier used above to establish a pseudo-average over the course of an encounter, numbers without a *1.36 are unable to crit for the scenario.)

AS Hit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
45% + 25% + 8.33% = 78.33%


AS Crit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
(45%*1.36) + 25% + 8.33% = 94.53%


AS Hit, Bash Crit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
45% + (25%*1.36)+ 8.33%= 81.83%


AS Hit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Crit
45% + 25%+ (8.33%*1.36)= 81.32%

SC Hit, Hit, Hit
29.33% + 29.33% + 29.33% = 88%

SC Crit, Hit, Hit
39.88% + 29.33% + 29.33% = 98.54.3%

This could indicate that if AS would always crit, then it would over take an SC by a small (6.5%) margin even if the B/B portion were completely unable to crit. However, due to the balanced nature of the SC's damage if even one of the ticks are able to crit, it will overtake an ASCrit/B/B.

The only immediate implication I can really think of regarding this behavior is the reinforcement of my recommendation to dump AM procs into AS and only use Auras to cast shield cannon. I have a visual of my reasoning, but I'm finding a lack of words for it at the moment, I'll try to illustrate or graph it out and submit it here for feedback later on.

Unfortunately, I found this thread while thoroughly exhausted so I apologize if it is incoherent, but I wanted to put my two cents in on the HC1 vs HC5 discussion...

I, personally, would not invest more than the initial point in to head crush. The damage increase per point spent for the DoT is really lackluster. If I were to build a Knight focused on dps, I would do something like this. Having Aura Shield at that level would allow you to save auras by preventing the need to cancel Concentration due to incoming damage and if you did need to cancel it, the cd would be substantially more potent. At the simplest level the difference in damage from HC5 to HC1 is approximately 1.5% over the course of a fight. I would rather have the survival cooldown that could save my auras for offensive skills instead of refreshing a cancelled concentration.
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#89 Earl

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

If we apply our current knowledge to Warrior's RS it seems even more useless. Warriors build up Aura faster than Knights (1.25 vs 1 Aura per Bash). RS is more expensive than SC (5 Auras vs 3 Auras). So a Knight misses out on 1.3 Auras while a warrior misses out on 3.7, which is more than a full AS worth of Aura.

So as a Warrior the options are (starting with 50 Rage):
RS = 90%
AS + Bash + 1/3 AS = 85%

And IMO we need to stop looking at these 1.7 seconds, no real fight lasts 1.7 seconds. We need to look at least at the duration of 1 skill rotation which is defined by the SC/RS CD (30s/20s).

@Reppu: You wrote:
It's proven that by the time Shield Cannon has finished animating, you have already completed an Aura Strike, a Bash, and are part-way into another Bash.

Could you explain why and how it's been proven?

Also what does DPA mean?

Edit: I just checked whether Knight's def is really taht much better. For Hell's Valkyrie 'set' I get:
213+239+293+266+319(+632)=1330(1962)
()=Shield
So that's 47.5% more def!
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Edited by 4976130504090508927, 15 May 2013 - 12:31 PM.

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#90 SonicTMP

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:15 PM

@Reppu: You wrote:
It's proven that by the time Shield Cannon has finished animating, you have already completed an Aura Strike, a Bash, and are part-way into another Bash.

Could you explain why and how it's been proven?

Also what does DPA mean?


I can field that, It's Damage per animation. The activation time the skill requires from start to finish to inflict it's full damage. That's part of the dicussion on SC since it's a 3 hit attack the DPA can be comparied to the faster AS in regards to it's DPS.

Math is fun huh?

@Reppu

It's still a gain. Yes it's minor but it's still worth it in trying to max dps. If you want to pull points from it to hybrid then go for it. My impression is you're more likely to be tanking if you have aura armor and we've gone over the 2 gear set requirments. Tedious but fully doable.
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#91 Reppu

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:13 PM

We'd need total DPS of every single class, to decide if Sub-10% DPS Gains are worth the utility. This discussion is, ultimately, dead in the water with out that information.

Number Guy: Also, nobody cares about trash mobs. You're AoE spamming those down more often than not, so calculating fights based only off of RS and SC due to trash fights is... dumb.

Edited by Reppu, 15 May 2013 - 06:15 PM.

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#92 Earl

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

@SonicTMP: Thanks for the info!

@Reppu: Come again? I said we should look at least at a duration of RS/SC CD (20s and 30s respectively). The RS calculation above was only to compare it to Xaeus' SC calculation. (Edit: I think I see the misunderstanding now! :) Of course I meant to fill the CD up with Bash/AS!)

Also would you care to answer my actual question? IIRC you were the first one to bring up the SC = AS + 1 1/3 Bash. So how do you come to these numbers? Did you measure it? Is there Vigor involved? Vigor would only be useful for Bash, right? It's the only skill with a CD (1s). The question is what its animation delay is, if it's 0.9s e.g. Vigor won't get you far.


Two other think to take note of:
- On page one Wandrin implied the AS' animation delay is 1.11 seconds.
- On page two Wandrin said SC takes 1.75s for the damage to finish but suggested that the actual animation delay is longer (if I understood him correctly - English isn't my native language).
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Edited by 4976130504090508927, 16 May 2013 - 06:50 AM.

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#93 Wandrin

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:18 AM

Two other think to take note of:
- On page one Wandrin implied the AS' animation delay is 1.11 seconds.
- On page two Wandrin said SC takes 1.75s for the damage to finish but suggested that the actual animation delay is longer (if I understood him correctly - English isn't my native language).
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Not quite. AS is actually quite fast the damage occurs in less than .5 seconds, the difference is the global delay of 1 sec and an additional ~.1 seconds where your skills appear to be usable but there is a delay in firing. As far as i can tell right now that delay is universal but my sample size is still fairly small ( ~300 skills observed so far, the delay also appears with when using bash indicating universal). Shield cannon takes between 53/54 frames(@30 FPS would need to increase to 45FPS or greater to get the precise timing somewhere between 1.76 and 1.8 seconds) to execute the final damage strike but i can't do any further testing with the skill as i don't include it in my talent build.
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#94 Earl

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:02 AM

Thanks for clarifying! Some follow-up questions:
  • Do all skills have a global CD of 1s?
  • Can this global CD be reduced by Vigor?
  • My 2nd assertion from my previous post is true, right? Or can I use Bash immediately after the last hit at ~1.75?
  • What is your measuring setup? What tools do you use and how do you use them?
Thanks in advance!
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#95 Reppu

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:52 AM

I can answer some of those questions, but you should have read the entire thread initially, which apparently you have now done, so I won't bother with the previous questions. Actually, I'll answer one question. You're capable of discovering the first three, and should empower yourself to do so.

4. Fraps. Obtain records, using multiple examples to ensure the average is found. Comb the recording frame by frame. Obtain animation times.


As for your other three questions, that's easily obtained information. That, and I currently refuse to log in to double-check for myself until the drop-rate fiasco is rectified.

Edited by Reppu, 16 May 2013 - 07:54 AM.

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#96 Timmmt

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

So it's the general consensus that Warriors have higher attack than Knights...

This is for those people thinking of becoming hybrids or tanks, as these Warriors tend to opt for Defender to be on par with Knights in Defence (and spend more skill points just for that).

Here is the attack power of their respective PvP weapons as an example:

Warrior: 829 ATK
Warrior: 746 ATK (+Defender)
Knight: 659 ATK

Okay, cool. Even with Defender Warriors have higher attack. But wait -- we're missing the attack from STR, so let's give both a decent 600 total STR (1200 ATK) from their equipment.

Warrior: 2029 ATK
Warrior: 1826 ATK (+Defender)
Knight: 1859 ATK

Now... the Knight has caught up. What if we added more STR? 600 total STR is still not endgame level-


With this I'd like to point out that 10% attack penalty of Defender will scale up pretty high, eventually putting Warriors below Knights in attack power.


Now it may seem common sense to some of you and might have been brought up before, but for those that haven't thought of it, this should be worth considering...


The difference in AP between warrior and knight isn't nearly as big as you think, even endgame. The difference in AP between warrior and knight weapons continue to get larger, although not by much. Also, you haven't taken into account refinement, which increases attack by 3% per refine. Naturally, weapons with greater attack power will benefit more.

Using AOD hard weapon, the great sword @ +10 is 1188 AP (base 914 AP), while the knight sword @ +10 is 945 (base 727 AP).

It's probably a 50 AP difference endgame in favor of the knight vs. a defender warrior.

Still, if you take into account that warriors generate aura/rage faster, and consider cooldown in skills, I have doubts that a knight can out dps a warrior, all equally geared. Since I'm too lazy/dumb to do a thorough skill comparison, I simply suggest having a warrior and knight kill the same boss and see which one downs it first. :)

Edited by Timmmt, 26 May 2013 - 12:42 PM.

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#97 Earl

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

I can answer some of those questions, but you should have read the entire thread initially, which apparently you have now done, so I won't bother with the previous questions.

If by 'previous questions' you mean the one concerning the AS + 1 1/3 Bash: I still don't get it. Could you refer me to the relevant post or just enlighten me?

As for your other three questions, that's easily obtained information. That, and I currently refuse to log in to double-check for myself until the drop-rate fiasco is rectified.

How is this easily obtainable for me?
  • For 1 I have to test every skill (I don't even have every class and of course not at a level where I can have every skill).
  • For 2 I'd need equipment with enough Vigor to make a measurable difference, which I don't have atm (I did mention I just started and I'm not a power gamer).
  • For 3 I need to skill a skill on my Knight which perhaps I don't even want. To decide whether I want it I need the information.
Also this is not how research works. Research works by sharing ones results so others don't have to find out again and can concentrate on new endeavors.
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#98 AlexaWhite

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:56 PM

I'm just little DPS-knight.
And i'm thinking - we just best melee dps
Posted Image
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#99 Chocs

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:39 AM

That's a nice screenshot.. definitely shows a swordsman's DPS potential. But the rogue isn't using the Adrenaline Rush effect and I could hardly call a monk a proper DPS melee -

[...]
Also, you haven't taken into account refinement, which increases attack by 3% per refine. Naturally, weapons with greater attack power will benefit more.
[...]

Thanks for enlightening us... I'm not familiar with how much upgrades increase attack (and defence) so your contribution is appreciated!
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#100 ShinJidaiNoKami

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

KNIGHTS


Knight cant dps.I know a friend who tried.He told me this.Numbers just 2 low.
Now let me explain other cons:

Grand Cross: 22% dmg. meaning 10% less dmg than a Warrior's brandish Storm.
Misses the Bowling Bash which is a Warrior ability that generates (2auras/double amount of rage)
Now the most important:
Concentration:Increases attack power by 20% but also damage taken by 10%.All who raid know how hard -_- boss aoe hits.So many times people survive with ~500hp now if u add +10%dmg to that boss attack.Knight will kill floor all day long.

You picked knight.Either go pve tank or colo designed dps(forever alone).There are no other options for you.

WARRIORS

By far the strongest end game tank.Most defense and most aggro generation when compared to any other tank.

Now about dps.Unless you are in a guild with friends( ppl who met on the internet 5 days ago don't count as such :D) i would suggest staying off that spec.
In order to pull top dps as warrior you need really really good equipment and i mean it.You need blue cards you need full runes and items with many rune sockets.
Now since raids are 10man so far the 4 dps spots are the following: 2rangers +rogue or assasin for buff and ideally a wizard for the +10% int buff and strong aoe.Meaning in most of the cases you are going be left out.
Other than that its a very nice class to play.I am just telling you you are going to have a hard time if you pick it up.

Also having played warrior and seen someone playing knight IRL i believe i have some knowledge on this topic.

Please dont reply with comments like but i went to rhd/raid and did more dps than this class.
If that guy was dpsing naked(meaning undergeared) or has totally no idea how to play his class DOES NOT MEAN YOU DO LOT OF DPS. :D

Edited by ShinJidaiNoKami, 26 May 2013 - 01:58 AM.

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