168 replies to this topic

[Bronx]

Sup all! Really nice discussion here, I enjoyed the read. I'm currently spec'd as a PvP knight with offensive skills maxed out for maximum KS.. I mean burst potential. So far it's been alot of fun. I leveled to 50 with a pure tank build, but found my damage in PvP to be pitiful to say the least. Imagine hitting someone with a wet noodle for damage. I managed to win Colosseum on my pure tank build, but it just didn't feel like it suited my play style very well, so I re-spec'd to the build I have now. I plan to utilize this build to farm blood points towards my gear set. I know I'm sacrificing my PvE capabilities with this build, but I don't mind one bit. I find PvE to be merely a means to an end, not my primary source of joy and entertainment. I have the resources to respec at will, so there would be no point in leaving my build the way it was.

My build right now is a Battle Tactics/Concentration build that focuses on damage potential over survivability. It might not be the ideal DPS for a RHD or whatever, but it can and will get the job done, even if it is a bit slower than pure DPS classes. Basically what I was aiming for was the happy median between a pure tank knight, and a pure DPS warrior, and I think I've almost got it with a little more tweaking. It reminds me of my blacksmith back on RO1, which I mained for 8 years, a heavy armored melee that played like a Jack of all trades, master of none type. I feel that this build better suits my play style and personality. It's not a very common build, and that's the way I like it. I don't want to be generic knight #99,999.

As far as Colosseum goes, melees please listen to me. Stop fighting each other, for the love of god, just stop! I know it's fun to duel your fellow melees, but I feel that in the first few rounds, it's more strategic to focus on Sorcerers and Rangers as much as possible. These two classes will give you the most trouble in the later rounds, so knocking them out early, by hunting them down and killing them whenever you see them will make winning that much easier come final round. They have the ranged advantage, but you have stuns, knockdowns, gap closers, and slows to nullify this advantage. Gang up on them, and they will fall like autumn leaves. The more they die, the more points they lose, and the more likely they will be eliminated. Sorcerers and Rangers will only dominate Colosseum if you let them. Don't let them derp their way to victory! Melees for life! /end rant

[SolidJelly]

KNIGHTS

Knight cant dps.I know a friend who tried.He told me this.Numbers just 2 low.

lol try telling that to the 2 DPS Knight advocates around here with their heads buried in the ground, they won't ever listen and will argue with you to the death. People think Battle Tactics + Concentration = OMGSUPERHUGEDPS or something. Maybe if they play other DPS classes they can actually see what real DPS numbers look like.

One of them was actually spreading rubbish around these boards, like "become a DPS Knight but take Shield Fortress because you can get picked for parties over other DPS that way, you're special because you have Shield Fortress, etc. etc.". Hopefully nobody followed that terrible advice, they'd have to waste money for a respec. Thank god he doesn't seem to play anymore.

[Bronx]

We don't do it to out-do pure DPS class, at least I don't. I do it cause I find it more fun than the other option, and I like being different, even if it means being less useful in parties. It's a sacrifice I was wiling to make when I came up with the idea. Currently, the best attainable gear right now is the PvP Colosseum set, and I'm having much more success farming points as an offensive build, than I did when I had the defensive spec, simply because I now have more damage potential to get kills. As far as parties and raids go, I leave that to the birds, killing monsters isn't very fun to me. But then again, there's the breed of player that thinks that everyone should only play 1 specific way. Games get stale that way.

[ShinJidaiNoKami]

PvP Knight is probably one of strongest pvp classes but that's a whole different thing.
Also let me clarify what "NOT GETTING PICKED UP BY PARTIES" means.

It means that all you gonna do in this game is RHD and COLO ( and solo farm mobs) for the rest of your game career. Maybe you'll be lucky and find some pug sometime, but no one will take you to raid over one of the other classes.

Edited by ShinJidaiNoKami, 26 May 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[weaseI]

Still leveling but my plan for party and colo
1. 0 point on crappy shield cannon. AS+bash almost deal the same damage with some chance bash to trigger aura mastery. No one in party will ever bother if you dont have SC.
2. Not maxing GC. It's just for aoe threat.
3. You'll have enough point for concentrate+battle manual with sacrificing 2% from bash or AS. Imo shield charge is much more valuble.
4. ???
5. Now you are still MT and still have fun in pvp.

Not sure what skills define dps knight but imo aura sword, shield boom and shield charge is not worth more than 1 point needed.

[ShinJidaiNoKami]

Yes, some people just don't understand. I give up. Do what you like.

[SonicTMP]

You can take your naysaying and shove it.



I may not be the best dps but I do a damn good job of keeping up. This is in full RHD gear with some colo acc (and the ranger had a few epics already). Maybe if you weren't bad at the class you could be decent dps too.

Instead we get a couple of doomsday seers spreading out right LIES.
Feel free to keep making whatever excuses you can about how knights can't dps. Because you'll always be wrong.

Edited by SonicTMP, 27 May 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[LuBuFengXian]

WARRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH YOU STRONGK MADE OUT OF MUSCLES

You got a solid group for this then?

[Tamashiimizu]

Yeah, no problem in going dps in raids. Just be sure to be in a guild that will accept you, like SonicTMP.

Otherwise, you'll have hard days trying to enter a public group.

[ODKN]

You can take your naysaying and shove it.



I may not be the best dps but I do a damn good job of keeping up. This is in full RHD gear with some colo acc (and the ranger had a few epics already). Maybe if you weren't bad at the class you could be decent dps too.

Instead we get a couple of doomsday seers spreading out right LIES.
Feel free to keep making whatever excuses you can about how knights can't dps. Because you'll always be wrong.

You tell them, Sparhawk.

[sephiroso]

You can take your naysaying and shove it.



I may not be the best dps but I do a damn good job of keeping up. This is in full RHD gear with some colo acc (and the ranger had a few epics already). Maybe if you weren't bad at the class you could be decent dps too.

Instead we get a couple of doomsday seers spreading out right LIES.
Feel free to keep making whatever excuses you can about how knights can't dps. Because you'll always be wrong.

just because you play with baddies doesn't mean knight does good dps.

[ODKN]

just because you play with baddies doesn't mean knight does good dps.

It does good DPS when mixed with the naturally high defence of a knight, and the ability to Shield Fortress in times of danger. Course, all people care about nowadays are the availability of raid tokens, whether than if a class is actually useful.

Edited by ODKN, 29 May 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[sephiroso]

It does good DPS when mixed with the naturally high defence of a knight, and the ability to Shield Fortress in times of danger. Course, all people care about nowadays are the availability of raid tokens, whether than if a class is actually useful.

sorry but no. no it doesn't. Anyone thinking dps knight is anywhere near comparable with actual dps classes-which are Ranger, Rogue, Sorc, Assassin. Dps warriors kinda are shafted, but still do more than knights i'd say.(barring wizard but they are teh sux) need to get a reality check.

[SonicTMP]

The only argument you have is that I was playing with bad players. It's pathetic argument at best.

Assassin got his colo weapon and shot up in todays raids. This little outing was interesting. Hey look, I'm beating one of the rangers. 15k away from the one above me. Condicering numbers I can't see how that isn't good. Of coures the denial is strong with some. The tears (yours) will flow once I get my colo weapon.

[sephiroso]

The only argument you have is that I was playing with bad players. It's pathetic argument at best.

Assassin got his colo weapon and shot up in todays raids. This little outing was interesting. Hey look, I'm beating one of the rangers. 15k away from the one above me. Condicering numbers I can't see how that isn't good. Of coures the denial is strong with some. The tears (yours) will flow once I get my colo weapon.

the fact that you're above a ranger is proof of my words enough as it is that you're playing with baddies. No pure dps class can even TOUCH ranger besides rogue in dps. Like i said, just because you play with baddies doesn't mean Knight does good dps. Both your rangers are trash. Complete and utter trash. Wizards do dps themselves. Yet the wizard is doing more dps than both the rangers. AND the wizard is closing in on the Assassin. Thats pure indication your dps don't know what the-_- they're doing with their classes.

Also, you're linking THREAT METER. which is not a clear indication of dps because it can easily be influenced by many things. Like you using magnum break or spamming potions. Furthermore you're only providing us with screenshots. You can easily have altered the results by having used provoke which gives you the number 1 persons threat so you can have 0 threat and top has 100k and you provoke all of a sudden you have 100k and fight continues you're still above other dps cause you just got boosted by that 1 provoke.

Seriously there's no disputing it. Knight dps can't touch actual dps classes. You are playing with baddies. Nothing more to talk about here.

Edited by sephiroso, 29 May 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[SonicTMP]

Actually its proof you have no idea wtf you are talking about. You can't do anything but spew trash with no facts. Just bigotry and discrimination from years ago during EQ and early wow when classes were poorly designed. Reality is all the classes in RO2, when built correctly can do great dps. While there are classes that do it better, the gap isn't so wide that something like a dps knight is as bad as you say.

Clinging to your "bad players" excuse is pathetic. You have no clue what those players are like, you just assume. You are wrong in doing so.

And I will be the first to admit the threat meter isn't the most accurate method to show dps, but its pretty much the best we got at the moment. I can promise that I'm not doing something so cheap as taunting or pot spamming. But if you want to scrape the barrel for more bad arguments then go right ahead.

When you get a real dps meter that shows what every class can do fully geared in the best the game has to offer, show what the differacnes are and how much it is, THEN you can talk. Meanwhile keep hating. Cause I'm doing exactlly what you say can't be done.

Edited by SonicTMP, 29 May 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[ODKN]

sorry but no. no it doesn't. Anyone thinking dps knight is anywhere near comparable with actual dps classes-which are Ranger, Rogue, Sorc, Assassin. Dps warriors kinda are shafted, but still do more than knights i'd say.(barring wizard but they are teh sux) need to get a reality check.

A dead DPS does not DPS. ANd I am very sure a Rogue will die b efore a DPS knight.

[Jargous]

If you're looking for pure DPS, then a Knight cannot compare especially when equally geared (aura armor confuses the numbers). If you're looking for DPS with utility, then Knights are beyond just about any class.

[sephiroso]

Actually its proof you have no idea wtf you are talking about. You can't do anything but spew trash with no facts. Just bigotry and discrimination from years ago during EQ and early wow when classes were poorly designed. Reality is all the classes in RO2, when built correctly can do great dps. While there are classes that do it better, the gap isn't so wide that something like a dps knight is as bad as you say.

Clinging to your "bad players" excuse is pathetic. You have no clue what those players are like, you just assume. You are wrong in doing so.

And I will be the first to admit the threat meter isn't the most accurate method to show dps, but its pretty much the best we got at the moment. I can promise that I'm not doing something so cheap as taunting or pot spamming. But if you want to scrape the barrel for more bad arguments then go right ahead.

When you get a real dps meter that shows what every class can do fully geared in the best the game has to offer, show what the differacnes are and how much it is, THEN you can talk. Meanwhile keep hating. Cause I'm doing exactlly what you say can't be done.

Dude you're the one talking out of your ass. It's a registered fact that the way dps rankings go in this game is Rangers=Rogues > Sorcs > (from here its a lil iffy) Assassin > Wizard > non pure dps peoples(warrior even if built pure dps gets tossed into here, same for knights).

That is an established fact. Ask anyone that isn't retarded and they'll tell you the exact same thing. Seriously just wait till i get get my rogue to 50 after i finish lvling my other alts to 30, let me get a couple rhd pieces and i'll find you in game, we'll do an rhd together or hell even a bapho raid and i'll show you you will not even be near me on the threat. Only possible way is if you cheat with provoke, or aura armor.

Keep in mind, i speak as a tank knight. My knight is 50. I know what kind of dps a dps knight can do, and it is NOWHERE near what can be done with a properly played Ranger or Rogue. But if you still refuse to see reason, just wait till i get one of my dps to 50 i'll pm you and we'll settle this in game without further need to continue to go back and forth in forums when both of us are set in our sides.

A dead DPS does not DPS. ANd I am very sure a Rogue will die b efore a DPS knight.

no odkn seriously what brought you to such a conclusion. please do enlighten me. if a rogue dies, its either his fault or healers slacking. obviously a dps's first goal is to not die. rogues are tailored to this because of smoke bomb and gangster's paradise. i would hazard a guess that a dps knight would actually be the one to die before a rogue. Because dps knight uses concentration which increases the dmg they take by 10%. they also don't have a self heal(not counting aura heal cause lvl 20 potions heal more then that -_-ty skill)

So please do tell how or why a rogue would die before a dps knight in the scenario of dps dying(which shouldn't even be the case unless you're in the learning phase of a fight)

[Jargous]

Situations where a Rogue would die before a DPS Knight.

Hard mode Arena bosses and double AoE (Gearbaz especially)
High damage AoEs from final raid bosses

[sephiroso]

Situations where a Rogue would die before a DPS Knight.

Hard mode Arena bosses and double AoE (Gearbaz especially)
High damage AoEs from final raid bosses

Nope, anyone with experience in those dungeons will know when aoe is coming and if they're not full hp they will gangsters paradise preemptively and can always use dirty plan for another immediate gangsters paradise if necessary in the case of double aoes.

Running anything hard mode in this game with intelligent people(not talking genius level, just people who aren't stupid) will have no issues with dps dying. Its why you saw people clearing hard modes within the first week of launch. They knew what they were doing, they didn't even have full epics and probably not even full RHD gear, just went in, took care of business, thats it.

[Jargous]

Some arena bosses come with surprises. I can probably guarantee you that just about any rogue will hesitate fighting Imverse in Hard Arena unless there is assurance of double highness heals. Driller is another wonderful example in hard mode. Not all the time can a rogue boast great survival, sometimes you are caught in a situation where it's either you live or die and those two situations are prime examples that can easily take a rogue's life.

[sephiroso]

Some arena bosses come with surprises. I can probably guarantee you that just about any rogue will hesitate fighting Imverse in Hard Arena unless there is assurance of double highness heals. Driller is another wonderful example in hard mode. Not all the time can a rogue boast great survival, sometimes you are caught in a situation where it's either you live or die and those two situations are prime examples that can easily take a rogue's life.

you act like a dps knight in those situations will 100% survive, they're just as liable to die as a rogue since all they can do is increase their def rate for 10 secs, they dont have access to instant self heals like a rogue and a rogue can double self heal themselves in those rare occasions. stop listing scenarios that aren't of the norm. cause those cases don't happen often if you're playing with people that know their .

Edited by sephiroso, 30 May 2013 - 07:58 AM.

[LuBuFengXian]

I have seen the future...THE FUTURE WHERE BATTLE TACTICS RIP OFF YOUR HEADS AND **** DOWN YOUR THROATS WITH TONS OF DAMAGE

[sephiroso]

*bows before our future new master and overlord LuBuFengXian*