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6k+ hp rogues out there?


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#26 RyeAkai

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:11 AM

Sorry for my ignorance, but what's "SEA"?
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#27 KIyde

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:36 AM

Sorry for my ignorance, but what's "SEA"?


South East Asia Ragnarok Online 2 Server.
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#28 Adamage

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:20 AM

The people that came here professing to be "experts" and carried a lot of the misconceptions people have about the game without the data to back up the claims. Don't get me wrong, there are always misconceptions. But repeating stuff you hear doesn't make it fact.
Keep in mind, they originally built around a <5 min res timer.

Here is one that I love. " melee can't dps baphomet hardmode" nvm the fact that you can literally be 8.9 meters from baphomet and still hit him. If you keep your circle around him 2 people will never get bit by a fire breath.

The way you clear content is by thinking about what will help the raid the most. And in context of this thread, upping max hp helps you survive to do more damage.
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#29 Elysion

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:26 AM

melee dps is pretty limited in baph hard

Ranged dps can:

1. Tank the blue aoe away from the stack
2. Kite the bear
3. Safely kill the exploding adds
4. Pull whatever that third boss is i cant remember his name
5. Focus down the fire thing

Melee dps can try to not die.

There is really no reason to be a melee dps in this game unless the class appeals to you. Being a ranger or a wizard (wizards are awesome people who think they arent really dont understand how wizards work, they spend their time aoeing adds down so of course their threat on the main boss is going to be lower) really is better in just about every way.

Even GP kind of loses its luster in these hard mode raids because EVERY aoe is countered with a diluge or a sanc. I tend to pre-cast my GP when i know an aoe is coming up but honestly im not sure it does much because i always end up having a couple hots ticing away on me after a couple of seconds of the aoe impacting anyway, and i still drink a potion immediately after it hits.

I honestly wouldn't reccomend anyone being mdps in this game, its nothing but a lot of added frustration for no real bonus. If i were not invested in the class id be something else.

Edited by Elysion, 17 June 2013 - 02:28 AM.

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#30 mysticalre

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:18 AM

I hate to respond to this kind of discussion, but people are just spoiled by deluge/sanct

They expect to stand in deluge/sanct and autoheal like noobs, while spamming skills on the boss. These are the types of people who play this game

If you have good players in a raid (i.e. tanks who move out of AoEs, constantly provoke stuff, off-tanks with proper mob control, melees who are always in position to do dmg, people who pot and heal themselves, etc.), then melee dps is really good

If everyone does their role, like a guild in a real raid should, then melee DPS > ranged DPS.
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#31 Elysion

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:20 AM

there are many unavoidable aoes in this game, third boss in bapho h, 6th boss in pve come to mind. And many melee range aoes with no tell - to kill the wizard in pve 7 you basially have to have the tank take if somewhere away from the group andf rdps it down while spam healing, all thief can do is stand on the stack and dagger throw

and i dont quite see how you think that having to move around a lot is actually beneficial to mdps, it just results in an even lower damage output. Against GTB and maya mdps is great.

My usual raid group has two mdps, and we do fine, but there is no doubting that we are no benefit over rdps and more limited in what we are able to do.
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#32 mysticalre

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:19 PM

there are many unavoidable aoes in this game, third boss in bapho h, 6th boss in pve come to mind. And many melee range aoes with no tell - to kill the wizard in pve 7 you basially have to have the tank take if somewhere away from the group andf rdps it down while spam healing, all thief can do is stand on the stack and dagger throw

and i dont quite see how you think that having to move around a lot is actually beneficial to mdps, it just results in an even lower damage output. Against GTB and maya mdps is great.

My usual raid group has two mdps, and we do fine, but there is no doubting that we are no benefit over rdps and more limited in what we are able to do.


bapho-h 3rd boss:
- when he raises his hand in the air, he's going to do an aoe, just keep dpsing anyway, it's low dmg
- he has a large aoe that's unavoidable... does like 5k dmg to me? 1 master + standing on lor is fine, you just keep dpsing anyway

pertus (pve-h #6)
- when he jumps in the air, he does like 6k dmg to the party, you don't need to run into deluge, just precast GP and pot. you ALWAYS have enough time to pot before you get stunned

pve-h, lightning/ground DOTs:
- tank needs to move away, you lose about 2-3 seconds of DPS every 30s - 1 minute? still not bad

pve-h #7 wizard
- I can tank it fine, he does the lightning aoe (dunno name), but you can move away for 1s only to not take the full dmg, then go back to meleeing

The only situations where you truly are forced to lose dps as melee are Bapho PvE-H #1/#2, when he spawns the suiciders :/ Also in Bapho-H when he spawns the bombers, then yeah melee are kinda useless there, but even priest/sorcs can take care of the bombers so it`s not a big deal, you still just keep DPSing bapho

another example, pve-h #4, xeno spider
- he enrages when he's inside the blue circle for long enough, in which case the tanks have to provoke him back and forth BUT you don't even lose dps, you just move & double attack & deadly blow while moving, it's really not hard to keep attacking a moving boss


You also have to keep in mind there are tons of range killers & range-DPS disruptions, too lazy to give examples but here`s just a couple off the top of my head
- the blue circle for a lot of bosses is one, generally you run away from your party to not make them get caught
- vadon bros-H also have TONS of range disruptions & aoe that you basically have to run a lot. Melee dps just turn to the opposite side of the boss
- pertus`s blue bugs silence ranged classes but barely touch melee

..and lots more. I would say ranged has a clear advantage in colo and most likely WoE, but when it comes to raids, I really don't think it's true.

Edited by mysticalre, 17 June 2013 - 02:34 PM.

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#33 Elysion

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

Well being a melee dps is actually more laid back than a ranged dps, ive noticed that. I was responding to saying people have gotten 'spoiled' by deluge or something, its standard to set up a deluge/sanc rotation and just to always have one of these down each time those aformentioned aoes get applied. I dont see how you can say that thats a bad idea or has 'spoiled' people, thats the way you counter those.

The big blue circle is great for ranged in some situations. The one in bapho H on the first or second boss or something, is GOOD for ranged because the way you deal with it is to have everyone stand within 10m of the boss, and have one range stand by the door. It always targets the furthest player so you set a ranger or a wizard over there alone, they tank it each time, and it cuts the damage down.

Ranged is much more useful because they are able to do things like that, or kite things, or do pulls to seperate pve 7 or bapho 3 from his adds., or safely kill adds that are too dangerous for mdps to get near.

Other than a really neat way i learned to pull in ghost ship that guarentees a single boss comes and nobody has to bother running or trying to reset or anything, that depends on having stealth (or a ranged attack larger than 20m), mdps are basically just, dps. And its because they dont really gain anything extra for all that loss of versitility that i dont really see the point of them in this game.

I also suspect smoke bomb can be used to pull pve 7 but ive never tested it since we just have a tank+priest team to do

Edited by Elysion, 17 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.

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#34 Adamage

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:23 AM

People that think you cant melee dps are the ones that just blindly follow what others did before. Because its easier not to think, than to actually figure out the mechanics of bosses. Personally, I can dps bapho on my rogue 100% of the time(when you are supposed to dps bapho, i.e. not during the hoorong/mino phase). If people do what they are supposed to be doing, you can easily dps as a melee, you just have to actually pay attention to boss mechanics and you are golden. -_- most melee have an easier time with the increased defenses when dealing with the death aoes.

The best advice I can give to melee dps, is to realize that you don't have to stand inside the boss to dps, usually you can get at least 5 meters out and dps, and on some bosses up to 9 meters. This lets you avoid splash damage/PBAOE(point blank area of effect) damage. I think I may do a post if I feel motivated so people have a guideline for surviving raid encounters. We shall see.
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#35 Elysion

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

The first time i beat bapho H we had three mdps. I really dont see what the problem with mdps in bapho H are. You need some ranged because you need ranged to take out the flying exploding things, but sorcs can handle that.

Its actually nice to be melee for the bapho fight i think because, being closer to the boss, you can traverse more degrees in a faster time, allowing you to have easier controll of positioning to make sure noone is behind you.

Rogues in general since rogues are so surviveable. In clutch situations ive easily tanked and taken out a mino add all by myself due to GP.
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#36 Leinzan

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:51 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=JSrKi36ZZXA

The video is hastened in a 13% to fit the song, and its before the WoE patch.

Don't know others, but I really enjoy playing melee.


Edited by Leinzan, 15 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.

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