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Rogue skills - reconsidered (Last Update: 05.10.2013)


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#26 Cthulhuzealot

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

Moonlight is meant to be used as a combination with a maxed Crescent Moon (5 secs duration) I use 5 points Crescent and Moonlight as soon as I have the combo bar filled and the FREE max combo. Knockdown then Moonlight  worked every time :D.


Edited by Cthulhuzealot, 07 July 2013 - 08:06 AM.

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#27 Oreot

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:54 AM

I prefer Rogue Buff. It gets more useful the more members of your party. 10 People in your Raid? You've given an additional 16% Critical chance. With average Luck. There will be an additional 1 in 6.25 chance one of your party members having a critical hit. 

 

As for Combo Points, I've used Double Attack so many times, I just have a feeling I know when it's going to come up. "Combo proc should be coming up soon -readies finger for GP/MD-" Most of the time my feeling is correct, but there's been about 2-3 times where I haven't had it proc in 15-30 hits. 


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#28 ZT0100

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

Moonlight is meant to be used as a combination with a maxed Crescent Moon (5 secs duration) I use 5 points Crescent and Moonlight as soon as I have the combo bar filled and the FREE max combo. Knockdown then Moonlight  worked every time :D.

 

Why not use DB instead of MD? CM might proc and you can get in another charged DB for a total of 120% with 2 hits.I have used 3 charged DBs before in a row. :P Plus, if DB crits, it's much stronger than MD. MD has so many hits that criticals won't deal as much damage as a single crited DB, unless the last hit is a crit. The way I see it, MD has a better average damage than a DB-DA-DB combo because it has more chance of critting, but the latter has the potential to deal a stronger, wholesome damage from crit, if you get what I mean. I believe MD is best used as a finisher because it's reliable, unlike DB that can miss with its single hit.

 

I prefer Rogue Buff. It gets more useful the more members of your party. 10 People in your Raid? You've given an additional 16% Critical chance. With average Luck. There will be an additional 1 in 6.25 chance one of your party members having a critical hit. 

 

As for Combo Points, I've used Double Attack so many times, I just have a feeling I know when it's going to come up. "Combo proc should be coming up soon -readies finger for GP/MD-" Most of the time my feeling is correct, but there's been about 2-3 times where I haven't had it proc in 15-30 hits. 

 

MoG is not worth maxing. In the long run, you're helping the party out a little bit but hurting your own DPS. 1.6% extra from maxing MoG mean 1.6 crit out of 100 hits for 1 person, or 16 crits out of 1000 hits for 10 people. It's so insignificant that it's negligible. In any way you're looking at it, it's merely a 1.6% extra for all. 16% sounds huge, but we're talking about a group of 10 people here! The truth is, it's 16% out of 1000% for a crit.


Edited by ZT0100, 07 July 2013 - 09:40 AM.

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#29 archedemon

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

^ There's often an Assassin around the corner, especially in Raids who's maxed their MoG. Better to put points into MoD, PW, DI.. or almost anywhere else, because of this I'd have to say it's more beneficial to increase your own damage. Good for solo's as well, and good for your attempts at Colosseum. Lol Not only that but UD's Crit buff isn't always a constant so that extra 2% isn't doing much for a rogue, as compared to an Assassin's constant 7% increase from self buffs, MoG + SC, and their +30% att power from Shadow Form. MoG is great for the party, no doubt about it, but Assassin's usually take it up, and have more of a consistent reason to.


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#30 ZT0100

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:40 AM

^^^^ I don't even play an assassin, but I wouldn't even max it if I did. I would put them points into Shadow Armor or even Shadow Assault. 1.6% is just so small. ~2 hits per 100 hits are crits.. WOW!(sarcasm lol.) It might be just me, but I think it's one of the worst buffs in the game. I just wish people wouldn't bother people with level 1 MoG. :p_err:


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#31 Oreot

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:55 AM

Been playing Assassin.. maxed Shadow Armor without regret. Just too freaking useful. Then I was thinking of maxing Poisoning Weapon and any left overs to Assault...but no more in crit buff at all.


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#32 Velouce

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Updated informations on Mark of Death and Genocide Mark. Huge thanks to mysticalre again!


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#33 Leinzan

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

Moonlight Walk no longer works so I suppose you should take it off from the list... it was awesome while it lasted tho


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#34 Oreot

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:57 PM

Did some testing. My warrior was hitting scarecrows 100 damage attacks and crits max. When I used Mark of Death on the scarecrows I never seen the damage raise above either of these values. I only seen the same values. So MoD doesn't work for parties. 

 

I will now be respeccing as 30 seconds of 110% damage is underwhelming. Especially at times when you're a rogue and you need to be running or kiting.

 

Also using Double Attack only I killed scarecrows in the same amount of time as it took to cast Mark of Death and kill them.


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#35 Velouce

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:46 AM

All I can do is write tickets and make threads in the proposals and suggestions forums, but WP wont change anything about those skills as long as I'm doing this on my own. They overlook the facts and think I'm just another whining player. How MD and MoD are functionless has a big impact on our class, those things aren't ment to "work" like they do in our version. WP blindly copyed SEA without ever questioning their incompetence and how they nerfed skills without ever considering taking their time to realize what they did.


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#36 Leinzan

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:43 AM

oh, a little "good" detail about MoD is that it can activate at about 5m if not a bit more, hence you can throw it at the enemy before it reaches you or you reach it... that means its out of the DA range to begin with and thus you dont waste DPS time...

 

a nice tip for good timing.


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#37 FloppyDiskDrive

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:23 AM

Moonlight Walk no longer works so I suppose you should take it off from the list... it was awesome while it lasted tho

 

There's no point on getting Moonlight Dance and focus my skill point on another skill?..


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#38 ZT0100

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:07 PM

All I can do is write tickets and make threads in the proposals and suggestions forums, but WP wont change anything about those skills as long as I'm doing this on my own. They overlook the facts and think I'm just another whining player. How MD and MoD are functionless has a big impact on our class, those things aren't ment to "work" like they do in our version. WP blindly copyed SEA without ever questioning their incompetence and how they nerfed skills without ever considering taking their time to realize what they did.

 

How is MD functionless? I think it's fine the way it is. Very useful in certain situations...

 

The only functionless skill I am aware of is Cross Impact. It's weaker than DA, but has a cool-down.


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#39 Leinzan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:33 PM

MD on my eyes:

+ Certain to try to strike a target without the need to go after it.

+ Almost a certain kill on the 2.5k HP under special circumstances.

+ Delivers the whole combo even if frozen, snared or knocked down.

+ Can be considered more a sort DoT than an insta damange skill.

+ Good damange

+ Under the correct circumstances can proc a x4 combo valid for 10~15k damange

- Can be stopped if you are killed or stunned midway through

- The animation is way too long for normal situations where there is nothing that stops you from doing a DB and 2 DAs

- The requirements to do a x4 MD are so extreme it only works for PvE bosses, and delivering a 10~15k combo is hardly notisable on boss battles anyway.

- The final damange is nice, however the first 8 strikes are half the damange of each of a DA hit, hence, too punny and unreliable and easy to get KSed from.

- When on connect, on the first second you will deliver the first 4 strikes, then it'll pause for a fraction of another second before delivering another 4 strikes, then pauses again and gives the final, between each pause there is a normal attack if the oponent was still on reach.

- It roots you on the spot, which isn't important if moving around isn't your priority to begin with.

- Always a risk to get trapped in AoE because of it

- Even if the first 8 strikes connect correctly, if the finisher misses, you only delivered a 50% out of the 110% you should have connected


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#40 xxalucard

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

MD on my eyes:


- Can be stopped if you are killed or stunned midway through

 

- The requirements to do a x4 MD are so extreme it only works for PvE bosses, and delivering a 10~15k combo is hardly notisable on boss battles anyway.

 

- The final damange is nice, however the first 8 strikes are half the damange of each of a DA hit, hence, too punny and unreliable and easy to get KSed from.

 


- Always a risk to get trapped in AoE because of it

 

- Even if the first 8 strikes connect correctly, if the finisher misses, you only delivered a 50% out of the 110% you should have connected

 

 

 

1)    I don't think so-- I've been stunned and even killed in the middle of it... but I still see the damage explode all at once on a target.  Once you start it, the target can't escape getting hit (unless they have an invulnerability skill).

 

2)  I've done it several times in colosseum.  Wizards have claimed the same thing about flame explosion...and I've used that many times in the colosseum as well.  Of course I don't do it all the time, but it still happens on occasion where you smoke bomb and have the mastery proc-- and it's exactly what you need to secure a kill.

 

3)  MD should only be used when a target is about to run away (and you're frozen, snared, etc).  It's not a primary KS'ing tool-- it's a "final attempt to finish someone as they get away".

 

4)  You should be using MD at the right time (like right after a recent AoE when you know another isn't coming).  It should be assumed someone knows a boss fight well enough to not be surprised by their AoE's.  I believe most (if not all) bosses operate on a fixed timer or hp % as to when the AoE's occur.

 

5)  The same could be said about deadly blow or any skill in the game that can miss.  In PvE, MD should only be used (except in special circumstances) with the Smoke Bomb combo-- where the risk/reward is worth it.  You have the potential to land more hits with Moonlight Dance, while if you do Smoke Bomb + Deadly Blow (and you miss) you will waste 100% of the 2x damage bonus, while with MD you will almost always deal at least a decent amount of damage.


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#41 Leinzan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

well, okay I wont go into specifics but O____o;;;

 

2)  I've done it several times in colosseum.  Wizards have claimed the same thing about flame explosion...and I've used that many times in the colosseum as well.  Of course I don't do it all the time, but it still happens on occasion where you smoke bomb and have the mastery proc-- and it's exactly what you need to secure a kill.

thats only the x2

 

For the rest, you have a valid argument. Since I've used it like that too. But saddly that skill have betrayed me more times than helped me... it did wonders while the "moving with auto-run-key" bug still worked, that was fun XD


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#42 ZT0100

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:09 PM

How does one do x4 with MD and SB? Critical with MD is all over the place, even with Adrenaline Rush.. :p_err:


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#43 xxalucard

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

well, okay I wont go into specifics but O____o;;;

thats only the x2

 

For the rest, you have a valid argument. Since I've used it like that too. But saddly that skill have betrayed me more times than helped me... it did wonders while the "moving with auto-run-key" bug still worked, that was fun XD

 

Sorry I misunderstood the x4.  Do you mean getting criticals on top of the x2?


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#44 Leinzan

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:40 AM

yup, its the critical one, which has the highest chance when the critical bonus procs from UD, if I dont bad remember in colo you get about a 30% base crit so it'll be a 50%, is pretty rare luck, but can also happen when you get the STR boost, a mere luck combo, but it looks so shinny when it happens, right?

 

of course you can add more stuffs for it to happen, like an AGI boost and AGI buff potion, and the food (which is lame but its something), however that just makes a rare ocurrance pass to a spensive ocurrance


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#45 mysticalre

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:00 PM

remove my contribution from your thread. I want no part of this


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#46 Velouce

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:29 PM

Updated the first post.

 

Informations include the changes on MD and MoD, as well as their impact on other skills. Also added a section that might be helpful when deciding how to spend your skillpoints.


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#47 Kalley92

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:31 AM

Velouce, do you mind sharing your build? Thx


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#48 Velouce

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:17 AM

There you go: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

I've recently removed the point from Rolling Cutter to max GP. Level5 GP is easier for farming certain DNA and I have a point in Shadow Fang on my assasin anyways.


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#49 Kalley92

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

There you go: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

I've recently removed the point from Rolling Cutter to max GP. Level5 GP is easier for farming certain DNA and I have a point in Shadow Fang on my assasin anyways.

 

 

Thanks!!  :p_hi:


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