45 replies to this topic

[SorcerousPhantom]

What is the problem? They have on par single target DPS with Sorcerers and specialize at AoE damage (which makes their overall DPS much higher). I rather wish I had gone the Wizard path, but I'm not willing to go through the early game again to do it. Wizard has always been more a straight-forward DPS oriented class than Sage/Sorcerer.

They are also excellent companions to Sorcerers as Frost Nova actually gives Sorcs some decent AoE DPS (LoV). Frankly, I'm surprised they gave Frost Nova to Wizards instead of Sorcerers.

The problem isn't just the DPS or the skills, but also how boring the class gameplay can get, the aniamtions, etc.
I believe Sorcerors have a lot more versatillity even when it comes to offensive.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[Bestie]

Yea I don't think some ppl r actually READING your post

[Nombus]

What versatility? Sorcerers have one chain that they can utilize and a support spirit. Their versatility in DPS is much more limited. What makes them dynamic is that they are not simply a DPS class.

I see your annoyance with the streamlined skill tree, but Wizards were always very streamlined in RO. Remember the days of Stormgust... Stormgust... Stormgust? Yes, they had other skills, but the damage never comparable until renewal hit.

I'm not disagreeing with you exactly. I'm simply stating that the class is doing exactly what it always had. One of the major complaints about RO2 in general is how repetitive the combat system is with each class having one chain to work with. Wizard is not special in this respect.

Edited by Nombus, 17 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[SorcerousPhantom]

What versatility? Sorcerers have one chain that they can utilize and a support spirit. Their versatility in DPS is much more limited. What makes them dynamic is that they are not simply a DPS class.

I see your annoyance with the streamlined skill tree, but Wizards were always very streamlined in RO. Remember the days of Stormgust... Stormgust... Stormgust? Yes, they had other skills, but the damage never compared until renewal hit.

I remember that! That spell was devastating back then.

As for Sorcerors' current versatillity, I've seen what they are capable of with the mixure of Frost Diver and their many electric spells. Wizards have little use for Frost Diver, and even while they have Frost Nova, it's for holding enemies and little else, as they have little to no mastery in Electric attacks at all.
On that note, though, a Wizard with Frost Nova and a DPS Sorcerer can make a brilliant team.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[flysteps]

Please don't go with AoE lol. People can kill faster by going one by one including yourself doing that even if the AoE was maxed. The AoE specialization was utter joke, just because Wiz has more AoE than the others.. it just none other than fancy skills. Meteor storm is useless . Explosion is close to that. You only need Inferno and Frost Nova as bonus.

Burst DPS is Sorc job. That's why they should go hybrid. Single target DPS? If it wasn't only because other class was forced to play their role i.e. Priest Full Support, Wiz DPS is the worse among all class DPS builds.

There are only two things that Wiz great at.
First, Wiz always be the last man standing in party if there was team wipe out. If not, then that person is not doing it right.
Second, they always be the only one Wiz in party. And also they have lesser competition with token.

Because of these two, you will feel good as Wiz and saying how good Wiz is overall. Enjoy your loot and all. Keep farming. Came out later with the full equipped gears as top damager. Laugh while you can. Wait until other class chase up, yes, they do cry at this moment, until they find Warrior and Rogue as god later on.

Here is just an extra, results according to my theory. But of course it was tested without skill change idea propose there. I have tested it in SEARO a couple of weeks ago and confirmed by my guildmates that watching my play. Solo leveling to level39 in less than a day with all killing khara completed, 0% profession. Basically I get to cast instant Firebolt if I get full buffed. Something close to 0 CD Firebolt and Fireball with 99% uptime. That's after sacrificing DoTs and a couple of Wiz -_-ty Fire skills plus the bonus from returning event. The total damage went far higher from the Fire Wiz and twice faster. The IGN is the same as my forum name if any wondering. Only because I was undergeared and it starting to hard to move further plus Noel is coming on 30th so I stopped. It's only one day one shot experience.

[Bestie]

im srry whut? Meteor Storm joke in dungeons and stuff ? Whut? >< I have found it very good so far, but idk maybe im foolish hahah lol.....

[flysteps]

Well.. for now you will enjoy it. While the adds are still weak and silly, easily controlled. You will realize the nature of Meteor Storm later on. Plus it is nothing compared to Brandish Storm. Inferno is different, and it will be better later on.

[SnowPin]

IMO Wizards hit harder than Sorcs. at least from what I've seen myself on my wizard.

[SorcerousPhantom]

IMO Wizards hit harder than Sorcs. at least from what I've seen myself on my wizard.

Indeed; wizards have amongst the highest DPS out of all classes, and it makes up for how circumstancial its other skills can get, although barely! Not to mention the animations, yet again.

Please don't go with AoE lol. People can kill faster by going one by one including yourself doing that even if the AoE was maxed. The AoE specialization was utter joke, just because Wiz has more AoE than the others.. it just none other than fancy skills. Meteor storm is useless . Explosion is close to that. You only need Inferno and Frost Nova as bonus.

Burst DPS is Sorc job. That's why they should go hybrid. Single target DPS? If it wasn't only because other class was forced to play their role i.e. Priest Full Support, Wiz DPS is the worse among all class DPS builds.

Flame Explosion isn't AoE, and it's probably the worst spell Wizards have.

As for your point; I assume you've never tried using Meteor Storm yourself, and if you have, you probably haven't in a very effective manner.
Certainly, there's Brandish Storm or a DPS Priest's AoE, but not all parties ahve one of each class, and even if they do, it's by far more convinient for more AoE to take out the minions rather than just let one person focus on them. If you're talented at something, you just don't back out because others could be better (and on that note, I still believe Wizards are more speciallized for it).

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 18 May 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[RealityChanger]

Indeed; wizards have amongst the highest DPS out of all classes, and it makes up for how circumstancial its other skills can get, although barely! Not to mention the animations, yet again.


Flame Explosion isn't AoE, and it's probably the worst spell Wizards have.

As for your point; I assume you've never tried using Meteor Storm yourself, and if you have, you probably haven't in a very effective manner.
Certainly, there's Brandish Storm or a DPS Priest's AoE, but not all parties ahve one of each class, and even if they do, it's by far more convinient for more AoE to take out the minions rather than just let one person focus on them. If you're talented at something, you just don't back out because others could be better (and on that note, I still believe Wizards are more speciallized for it).

Meteor storm is overrated while Inferno alone can clear the adds without troubles. Why the need of 5 sec paralyzed during Meteor Storm while you can do other things in that 5 sec? 5 sec is long enough. It just at least 5 sec, given the adds will be wiped in one Meteor Storm which not likely the case if the adds are strong. It is only convenient during low and weak phase. It is not that convenient overall. Brandish Storm is just better than Meteor hands down, it is not "could be" better, it is better. Warrior can AoE better than Wiz, better damage, mobility, tanky, they beat Wiz in Wiz own turf. Did I mention, they can freely move?

[Nirrado]

I love how everyone is doing all these assumptions when there is no true way to test any of this out. Without a damage meter and damage breakdown over a long period of time, there is no true way to prove X is indeed better than Y. It's silly how this thread was meant to be about the Wizard animations and skill variety, and has turned into a Wizards suck and Warriors are better thread. Back on topic or GTFO please.

OnTopic:
I feel the character animations are fine personally, but the spell's themselves leave a bit to be desired. Fire Bolt is fine, but Fireball should not be Fire Bolt + 200% size lol. Also I think they could condense Meteor Storm into 1-3 hits instead of 10, this could shorten the animation, and make the Meteors larger for more wow factor(I guess lol). I was also really hoping the first time I used Flame Explosion that I would actually throw a bunch of Fireballs not just wave my arms around and numbers pop up. I like Inferno's animation, but would prefer it be ranged ;_;

[SorcerousPhantom]

Meteor storm is overrated while Inferno alone can clear the adds without troubles. Why the need of 5 sec paralyzed during Meteor Storm while you can do other things in that 5 sec? 5 sec is long enough. It just at least 5 sec, given the adds will be wiped in one Meteor Storm which not likely the case if the adds are strong. It is only convenient during low and weak phase. It is not that convenient overall. Brandish Storm is just better than Meteor hands down, it is not "could be" better, it is better. Warrior can AoE better than Wiz, better damage, mobility, tanky, they beat Wiz in Wiz own turf. Did I mention, they can freely move?

Like I have said, Wizards have many flaws that need fixing. Although your sharp concern with making your point through almost makes it sound like you're reassuring yourself, dear.

To debunk your point, however; Wizards' AoE might comes from both Inferno AND Meteor Storm.
It is also a fact that Meteor Storm is the second most damaging AoE skill in the game, behind only Arrow Vulcan, to which Rangers find little use due to their single-target focus. Sure, we have to stand still, but the damage we deal is not half bad, although I do agree a bit more mobillity or a faster animation'd make us more versatille.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 18 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[SorcerousPhantom]

I love how everyone is doing all these assumptions when there is no true way to test any of this out. Without a damage meter and damage breakdown over a long period of time, there is no true way to prove X is indeed better than Y. It's silly how this thread was meant to be about the Wizard animations and skill variety, and has turned into a Wizards suck and Warriors are better thread. Back on topic or GTFO please.

OnTopic:
I feel the character animations are fine personally, but the spell's themselves leave a bit to be desired. Fire Bolt is fine, but Fireball should not be Fire Bolt + 200% size lol. Also I think they could condense Meteor Storm into 1-3 hits instead of 10, this could shorten the animation, and make the Meteors larger for more wow factor(I guess lol). I was also really hoping the first time I used Flame Explosion that I would actually throw a bunch of Fireballs not just wave my arms around and numbers pop up. I like Inferno's animation, but would prefer it be ranged ;_;

I suppose most of the current animations are fitting as they are! Though I don't know, personally I find them to be a little too stale, especially when compared to Sorcerers, for that matter. You're right, though, the spell effects themselves are a little underwhelming. Especially Fire Flower and Inferno. You'd expect those to have a little bit more...Umph to them sometimes.


Some of the spell durations do need shortening, also. Particularily Meteor Storm, though if Flame Explosion was ever made faster, it'd make the spell useful at last.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 18 May 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Vaelastrasz]

Well I'd prefer no animation instead of 2-3 seconds animation for Flame Explosion (altough you can move during the animation), that wouldnt make the skill so worthless in case of longtime DPS loss compared to the haste rate...

[SorcerousPhantom]

Well I'd prefer no animation instead of 2-3 seconds animation for Flame Explosion (altough you can move during the animation), that wouldnt make the skill so worthless in case of longtime DPS loss compared to the haste rate...

Admittedly, yes, Flame Explosion's animation is what amkes it quite as useless. The ironic part is that it's not even all that interesting to see.

[elvenne]

The threat meter is not a dps meter and most people seem to be forgetting about it.

You switched to aoe the adds and that Johny-the-rogue kept tunnelling the boss? You go back to the boss and your threat sucks in comparison with his.

A damage meter would have recorded all your dps, including the adds and the situations where you have dots on several mobs at a time.
A threat meter shows your dps at a given moment of time on the selected target only.

P.S. inferno's fire flower on 10 mobs+ meteor storm still seem better to me, even though warriors can move while spinning. And again noone is able to measure this aoe damage because the threat meter is not suitable for it.

[RealityChanger]

The threat meter is not a dps meter and most people seem to be forgetting about it.

You switched to aoe the adds and that Johny-the-rogue kept tunnelling the boss? You go back to the boss and your threat sucks in comparison with his.

A damage meter would have recorded all your dps, including the adds and the situations where you have dots on several mobs at a time.
A threat meter shows your dps at a given moment of time on the selected target only.

P.S. inferno's fire flower on 10 mobs+ meteor storm still seem better to me, even though warriors can move while spinning. And again noone is able to measure this aoe damage because the threat meter is not suitable for it.

Finally someone who has a clear thought how the game actually works appeared.

All those little lacking in each Wizard's features adding up in a huge weakness, which other class has their own added features to cover up but Wizard still lacking behind when cover up with own benefits.

Things like Hybrid/DPS Priest, Hybrid Sorc, OffTank Knight can be wonders at end game. Raid dungeon? They can serve their original roles as well as extra roles in those.. Even Priest DoTs work better that Wiz's.. Seriously, I'm not talking about bug abuse or anything. There are many people out there who cannot even differentiate between DPS Priest and FS Priest nowadays.

And still, people keep talking about their DPS based on agro meter.

Like I have said, Wizards have many flaws that need fixing. Although your sharp concern with making your point through almost makes it sound like you're reassuring yourself, dear.

To debunk your point, however; Wizards' AoE might comes from both Inferno AND Meteor Storm.
It is also a fact that Meteor Storm is the second most damaging AoE skill in the game, behind only Arrow Vulcan, to which Rangers find little use due to their single-target focus. Sure, we have to stand still, but the damage we deal is not half bad, although I do agree a bit more mobillity or a faster animation'd make us more versatille.

2nd most damaging if not counted LoV + Frost Nova.. You basically gonna need to waste more skill points just to catch up with other classes at the same time lacking with other aspect that they don't.. Understand other class well and to what extend their skills can do.

[KurashiDragon]

What I don't like about the Wiz is that it's to simple. They only ever rely on the Fire tree. Yea the electric and ice tree are there but they're shafted in favor of the fire tree. Yea sorcs kinda do the same thing with the ice and lightning tree but that's only because they're fire tree changes to an earth tree. Not only that but Sorcs can do so much more than Wizards while still doing dps just as well as the wizard.
　

This is just my opinion but I'd absolutely love if if their Ice and Lightning tree changed like the Sorc tree. I've had a chat with my guild members at one point about this and they pretty much agreed with me that they'd love a change in the Wizard like that. If it were my choice. I'd chose Water and Wind. (Though the electric tree has been called the Wind tree.)

I understand that there are people that love the wizard just the way it is and far be it from me to take away something you love. I just think the wizards need to be changed to make them not so simple and stale.

[Vaelastrasz]

Well the current water and lightning tree for Wizzis are lets face it, just escape skills, there is no further damage skills when you hit wizard (except frostnova dmg? oh well).

It would be pretty nice if they could introduce some more damaging lightning/water skills, aswell as giving other side effects to the corresponding tree, fire -> burn in every way, water -> maybe freeze or slowdown, lightning -> stun or unable to move effect (like freeze).
It would make a Wizard way more versatile (altough there is always one specific build to get max dmg out) but therefore a wizard would need a complete revamp ^^

[SorcerousPhantom]

Well the current water and lightning tree for Wizzis are lets face it, just escape skills, there is no further damage skills when you hit wizard (except frostnova dmg? oh well).

It would be pretty nice if they could introduce some more damaging lightning/water skills, aswell as giving other side effects to the corresponding tree, fire -> burn in every way, water -> maybe freeze or slowdown, lightning -> stun or unable to move effect (like freeze).
It would make a Wizard way more versatile (altough there is always one specific build to get max dmg out) but therefore a wizard would need a complete revamp ^^

Pssst, Frost Nova deals no damageeeee.....

[Vaelastrasz]

Well no idea since I dont play a Wiz, born to be a Sorc