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Problems with Rogue skills in Colosseum


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#1 Shadowsocks

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:09 PM

The first thing that bothered me is that you can never re-use Hiding after you've left your initial stealth, since you're stuck in combat until the round ends no matter what. IMO, this makes putting 3 points into smoke bomb required, since it's your only source of re-stealth and your only gap-closer (DI) can only be used during stealth.

Another huge issue is that Dark Illusion almost never goes through with the damage, and I have no idea why. If there's some trick to using DI, please tell me. It could be because I often move by holding down left and right click, thus making it so my character might not be facing them when I'm teleported behind them, but I think that the skill is just bugged, since I've tried countless combinations of things to try to make it consistently work. I'm trying to use Dagger Throw from stealth followed by DI, so that they both do double damage (since Dagger Throw doesn't break stealth until it lands), so that might be what's messing DI up as well.

My main problem with Smoke Bomb is that it doesn't get rid of projectiles flying at you when you activate it. It's fine for stealth to be broken by dots, even though most dots last a ridiculously long time, because you can avoid being dotted by killing someone fast enough or by choosing the right targets. I don't think it's okay, though, for a 2 minute cooldown stealth to be broken by a projectile that's fired at the same time as I activate Smoke Bomb. I don't know how strong Rogues are in Colosseum, but if you want to improve the quality of life of Smoke Bomb, I'd make it not only fizzle flying projectiles, but also consider making it remove snares. I'm not sure whether you can use Dark Illusion while snared, but if you can and it doesn't break the snare, instead landing you behind someone but remaining snared, you could also make DI remove them instead of SB. If you can't DI while snared, then I definitely think SB should remove snares.

I also wish that the Adrenaline Rush effect from Unstable Doping wouldn't go away when you die in Colo, but that's not too important and obviously rewards staying alive.

Lastly, it would be nice for Deadly Plan to not be on the global cooldown, and yet it even has a cast time. The standard for a reset skill like this in most MMOs I've played has been for it to be instant-cast and off the GCD, but since Deadly Plan also gives 5 combo points, it would be fine to either make it instant-cast, make it off the GCD, or make it not break stealth upon use.

Edited by Shadowsocks, 17 May 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#2 Scott

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

Dark Illusion needs to be able to be used outside of stealth with a 1m cooldown in my opinion.

So basically, a hidden Dark Illusion is 100% crit. Popping out makes it go on a 1m cooldown. If you smoke bomb or hide again, it then removes the cooldown, or you wait out the minute to use it outsideof hide with no crit chance.

It's about utility, and it's not very usable at the moment.
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#3 Velouce

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:25 PM

Well I don't mind maxing smoke bomb, and 120 seconds is acceptable considering it works. But it's true, it is too easy to waste it, not mainly because of projectiles, but because when you're round 3-5 you'll have big troubles with the mobs, you simply can't use smoke bomb, they still will attack you. And if you suceed, smoke bomb will be inefficient because mobs and players do all those random AoEs everywhere on the field and it's hard to sneak on someone.

Dark Illusion - I never use it w throwing dagger. Especially because you really really need good timing for killstealing, and this just wastes time = harder to coordinate. Dark Illusion deals high enough damage to suceed easily. Usually I spam my Deadly Blow shortcut afterwards - just in case Dark illusion doesn't trigger.

Lastly, my biggest issue atm - and it seems that not many have this problem - I simply can't use tab for targeting. To prevent certain answers: I am fully aware of the system function where you can unhook/hook pt-target, non-pt target and monsters. Still, in colo when someone is in front of me, I use tab and it either tabs everybody but the one in front of me, or it tells me that there are no targets to click (yes, again, non-pt target hooked).
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#4 fuzzy715

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:25 PM

hey I fully agree and bump this! That some balancing needs to be address with the colo and rogues, they are so under powered. Especially when there skills don't even work right... also its awesome getting crit for 6k at a time by other classes, stuned, trapped, and having player teleport away!? And I have asked in other threads just to be able to hide a bit more, but that is way to OP from other players... I have went toe-to-toe with other classes and while they get full range of abilities,(that work) while the rogue only some much, 1 time hide, 1 time dark illusion (if it works), gotta wait on cool downs with there big skills? and hope some skills work (smoke bomb), meanwhile can only spam so many other skills...I dunno IMO they need to balance it but, yea I agree what is being said here.. because it true !
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#5 breadcrmbs

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:53 AM

i never had problems with my rogue. it just needs time. that's all i can say :)
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#6 fuzzy715

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:10 AM

i never had problems with my rogue. it just needs time. that's all i can say :)

lucky you, spare a rabbit foot for the rest of us?
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#7 ZefirusKZ

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:27 AM

IMO. If you can't perform well on colosseum with your class, it doesn't necessarily mean, that this class is underpowered. (I play as a rogue and easily get to the last round. Haven't been a champion yet though, but because of the rubberbanding issues on my really old laptop, not the class being underpowered). I just ask to fix the crit damage of "Moonlight Dance". The last hit doesn't crit (the number flashes as crit, but the dmg is ordinary dmg, not 2x dmg)
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#8 Velouce

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

What makes me not suceed has nothing to do with the class. Beside the mentioned problems, it seems with every single Colo new stupid bugs appear that handicap me even more. Just the minute ago, I had 4 uncounting kills in round 2 and 8 (!!!) kills in round 3 who all did not count. Ended up w 0 kills. I saw me having the killing blow every single time. Just after that, using an npc I realized I had like a 4 or 5 second delay. So you wait the whole day for those 5 minutes of pure frustration, wasting food, repair cost and master red to lose thanks to bugs or a ridiculously high delay? No thanks.
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#9 Chimiko

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

I do agree that something has to be done with the rogues. We don't have enough durability nor gap closers to work well in the colo.
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#10 Shadowsocks

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

IMO. If you can't perform well on colosseum with your class, it doesn't necessarily mean, that this class is underpowered. (I play as a rogue and easily get to the last round. Haven't been a champion yet though, but because of the rubberbanding issues on my really old laptop, not the class being underpowered). I just ask to fix the crit damage of "Moonlight Dance". The last hit doesn't crit (the number flashes as crit, but the dmg is ordinary dmg, not 2x dmg)

To be clear, I also easily get to the last round, but have yet to win as a Rogue. I haven't played Colo on anyone but my Rogue, so maybe every class feels as weak against certain things as Rogues do. I still think that Assassins and Sorcerers are all-around far stronger in Colosseum than Rogues, but it could be that most of my complaints will become irrelevant once I get gear.
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#11 zdhayman

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:53 PM

What makes me not suceed has nothing to do with the class. Beside the mentioned problems, it seems with every single Colo new stupid bugs appear that handicap me even more. Just the minute ago, I had 4 uncounting kills in round 2 and 8 (!!!) kills in round 3 who all did not count. Ended up w 0 kills. I saw me having the killing blow every single time. Just after that, using an npc I realized I had like a 4 or 5 second delay. So you wait the whole day for those 5 minutes of pure frustration, wasting food, repair cost and master red to lose thanks to bugs or a ridiculously high delay? No thanks.


When this happens do you advance to the next round or are you eliminated? From what I've seen. If you did not get enough kills, whether they be mobs or players, to advance to the next round then everything you did that round simply doesn't count. This has happened to me a few times. It's always the round I get eliminated. My brother came up with the conclusion that if you did not have enough points to advance it doesn't tally your kills and you are eliminated from colo.
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#12 Velouce

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

That's right, you wont get your points for the round you're kicked, meaning you have to get at least to round 2 to get a single point. But that's not the problem, the thing is, I can't get a killing blow on people because of a new 4-5 second delay. You know, the most fun thing about this is, that nothing looks delayed on my screen until you see mine or the opponent's damage. This also was probably the reason why I could see me having the killing blow as often as I wanted, it still never count because what I see on my screen already happened seconds ago, different. When I participated in the 6 pm Colo, this occured again, I ended up w 0 kills in the first round. I had like 6 or 7 encounters and most of them it looked like I had a clean killing blow on them before someone else stole them, but not a single of them was counting. It's really frustrating to waste so much money for master reds, repairs and food, and also wait the whole day, just to experience this.
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#13 issactrigul

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

Dots SHOULD continue damaging you when you use smoke bomb. However, it SHOULDN'T uncloak you. Smoke bomb is on a ridiculous cooldown, and you can only use it 2-3 times per round depending on your timing.
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#14 Velouce

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:30 AM

I don't mind the cooldown. I maxed the skill because I can understand you need to sacrifice skill points for PvP (althought it's not that big sacrifice for a Rogue imho). It's just that I assume the skill is still bugged because monsters are still chasing you and removing hiding effect. I didn't have too big trouble with it against other players, I simply don't use it when I'm chased, I rather fight til I die (usually I beat any player so far, even with 1/2 of max HP left, that however if they don't use IM items like full recovery and such) and use Smoke Bomb after I respawn. But the real problem are those damn mobs, you can completely forget about smoke bomb after all those Freyans and co. come and chase you through the whole arena, no matter what. And for most of the time, they instantly attack after you spawn, making it impossible to use Smoke Bomb again. I doubt that this is intended, because Smoke Bomb is completely useless in PvE thanks to this issue (yes, you can reset threat but did anybody notice how unstable boss aggro is in this version? Sometimes it's enough to just deal more damage than others on a target, regardless of the threat).

Something that bothered me too was the enormous delay I have when I use Dark Illusion. Usually it takes up to 3 seconds from using to casting, which makes it almost impossible to coordinate a kill. Sadly this also occurs to many other skills, sometimes a planned - strong killing blow (like using deadly or moonlight drive to raise chance on getting the final hit) just wont trigger because of the horrible delay, and instead of saving you the kill, it ruins everything.
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#15 mysticalre

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:09 PM

@OP

Dark Illusion has a range. If you are outside of the range, you will kind of teleport to them, but the attack won`t go through. THis happens in Colo especially because people are constantly moving out of range.

Test this on a mob, and you will see it. If you target an extremely far away mob while hidden, and press DI, then you will walk towards them, and DI will fail. If you are close to the mob (i.e. WITHIN DI range), then DI will never fail.

The best advice I have is to get familiar with DI range, tabbing through characters and DIing low HP ones isn't enough :P
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