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#26 ODKN

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:56 AM

WHatever. <_< I've never seen overly biased drops, and I doubt I will...
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#27 Cybermario

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

This remind me drake run, i was lucky to get my weapon, sin pants and gloves in 3 runs, BUT... there was an amazing drop of Monk gear (monk in one of the groups) i remember saying "i wont get this many monk gears when i come monk"
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#28 sephiroso

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:55 PM

This remind me drake run, i was lucky to get my weapon, sin pants and gloves in 3 runs, BUT... there was an amazing drop of Monk gear (monk in one of the groups) i remember saying "i wont get this many monk gears when i come monk"

Yea, cause its true. Soon as Monk and BM are in party, their drops will stop dropping. Doesn't make any sense. Still awaiting a GM/CM to acknowledge this so they can push it on to the devs to get it fixed.
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#29 Puppet

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:46 PM

Something is diffently wrong with loot tables. I ran atlest 20+ dungeon runs the last few days spaning 3 dungeons had gear for my class (assassin )drop a total of 3 times if that, Mean while Classes that arnt even in the group are have there gear drop like candy, This is so bad i wont even run dungeons no more as I have better chance of get great of stuff I killing out side of dungeons.


Gear dropped from dugneons really need to take into account the groups compisition, I mean if there no Rogue, Assassin or what ever in the group it should not be dropping...
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#30 sephiroso

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

Something is diffently wrong with loot tables. I ran atlest 20+ dungeon runs the last few days spaning 3 dungeons had gear for my class (assassin )drop a total of 3 times if that, Mean while Classes that arnt even in the group are have there gear drop like candy, This is so bad i wont even run dungeons no more as I have better chance of get great of stuff I killing out side of dungeons.


Gear dropped from dugneons really need to take into account the groups compisition, I mean if there no Rogue, Assassin or what ever in the group it should not be dropping...

You and others that are asking for it to drop for whats based inside the party isn't what should happen. It's just loot should be ACTUAL random loot with equal chances across the board no matter whats in party or whats not in party. Thats the way the loot should be.

But you are definitely right there is something wrong. The way it is now, loot is skewered to drop gear for classes(specifically tank classes) that are not in the party which just -_-s everyone else over which leads to frustrated individuals like yourself and myself personally.
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#31 Varunax

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:31 PM

Run Payon dungeon. Kill the horong boss and don't tell me it doesn't drop a monk knuckle. :/

Yeah, loot tables are f'ed up. Everyone knows, everything knows... no sense in arguing about it anymore.

Edited by Varunax, 29 May 2013 - 08:31 PM.

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#32 sephiroso

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

Run Payon dungeon. Kill the horong boss and don't tell me it doesn't drop a monk knuckle. :/

Yeah, loot tables are f'ed up. Everyone knows, everything knows... no sense in arguing about it anymore.

Not everyone knows because its not listed as a recognized bug in the Master Bug List to be discussed with the devs so we can get it changed. Until the devs recognize this as a legitimate bug i'm going to continue to try to raise awareness so this thread gets enough attention that they'll be forced to see it.

This is really one of the more debilitating bugs in the game right now, and while i don't forsee it actually getting fixed for quite sometime, it will NEVER get fixed unless the CMs push it forward to the devs.
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#33 ODKN

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:02 AM

Run Payon dungeon. Kill the horong boss and don't tell me it doesn't drop a monk knuckle. :/

Yeah, loot tables are f'ed up. Everyone knows, everything knows... no sense in arguing about it anymore.


THat only happens in Normal, and many bosses do stuff like that.
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#34 RevLoveJoy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:32 AM

You know there are 14 types of armor and 17 types of weapons.

On Armors:
Monk/BM/War/Knight covers 8 of them.
4 Haste Vigor, 4 Dodge Parry

The rest covers 6. All Haste Vigor.

On Weapons:
BM/War/Monk covers 6.
Knight covers 4 because of the Shield.
Rangers covers 2 because of the Quiver.
Sorc/Wizard/Priest/Assassin/Rouge covers 5.

Drop chance ratio
Tanky classes:DPS/Healer
8:6 on armor
10:7 on weapons

I'm not surprised why I always see a Monk/BM drop in every RHD run. I just got used to it even in SEA.
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#35 sephiroso

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:56 AM

You know there are 14 types of armor and 17 types of weapons.

On Armors:
Monk/BM/War/Knight covers 8 of them.
4 Haste Vigor, 4 Dodge Parry

The rest covers 6. All Haste Vigor.

On Weapons:
BM/War/Monk covers 6.
Knight covers 4 because of the Shield.
Rangers covers 2 because of the Quiver.
Sorc/Wizard/Priest/Assassin/Rouge covers 5.

Drop chance ratio
Tanky classes:DPS/Healer
8:6 on armor
10:7 on weapons

I'm not surprised why I always see a Monk/BM drop in every RHD run. I just got used to it even in SEA.

I get that, and if it wasn't for the fact that if you would have a party with a Monk/BM/Knight in party you would see very little Monk/Bm/Knight gear dropped as compared to if you had a party that didn't have a Monk/BM/Knight in it then i wouldn't have made this thread.

It's simply because of what i just stated why i know the loot tables are -_- up and they're not random. I get tanks have 2 sets of gear, but what i keep saying over and over is depending on your party composition with the tank classes will have a clear effect on what drops from the bosses. I can't say this enough times. Just do a little experiment which i've done numerous times myself. Do them in batches of 10. Take a party of Knight and have w/e dps and healer classes you want. Do 10 RHD record how many monk/bm gear drops. Now Take a party of BM and have w/e dps and healer classes you want. DO 10 RHD record how many Knight/monk gear drops. Now take a party of Monk and have w/e dps and healer classes you want. Do 10 RHD record how many BM/Knight gear drops. You will clearly see the effect that i am saying. Now FINALLY take a party of Knight/BM/Monk and w/e dps healer you want. Do 10 RHD and record how many Monk/Knight/BM gear drops. You will see the clear difference of the loot solely based on your classes you have in your party. If your party composition has a direct influence on gear drops it is not simply due to random/rng/equal drop rates. It's something -_- up in their algorithm.

I've done i would say about 20 runs with each different composition. It clearly shows if you don't have a BM/Monk in party, 40-60% of the gear will be for Monk or BM. Yet Have a BM/Monk in your party(along with myself as a knight) then loot for other classes will start dropping and the BM/Monk(and knight) gear will have taken a dive in drop rate.

Edited by sephiroso, 30 May 2013 - 06:57 AM.

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#36 Wolfdog10

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

Not everyone knows because its not listed as a recognized bug in the Master Bug List to be discussed with the devs so we can get it changed. Until the devs recognize this as a legitimate bug i'm going to continue to try to raise awareness so this thread gets enough attention that they'll be forced to see it.

This is really one of the more debilitating bugs in the game right now, and while i don't forsee it actually getting fixed for quite sometime, it will NEVER get fixed unless the CMs push it forward to the devs.

Thinking back to RO1, drops rates off monsters depended on the time of day and what day of the week was. I'm just throwing this out here as a theory, but what if this was what they intended? Think about this for a moment, if what classes were in your party affects what drops as a main factor to the drop rate. Then if this "bug" was fixed so that the drops only focused on what classes were in your party instead of which classes that were not in their party. Well people would gear so much faster, once people get all the gear they need, then most people would have nothing else to do after that. People would be dropping out of the game pretty quick.

So knowing how this company works, wanting to bleed us of all our money, then we can say maybe that this drop system was intend to drag out the grinding hours for gear. I'm sure anyone who played RO1 when it was hardcore would know that leveling was well beyond what most online games had in terms of hours being invested. This is like a modern day story of Tantalus.




That is just my theory anyways. I just want true RNG droprate.

Edited by Wolfdog10, 30 May 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#37 sephiroso

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

Thinking back to RO1, drops rates off monsters depended on the time of day and what day of the week was. I'm just throwing this out here as a theory, but what if this was what they intended? Think about this for a moment, if what classes were in your party affects what drops as a main factor to the drop rate. Then if this "bug" was fixed so that the drops only focused on what classes were in your party instead of which classes that were not in their party. Well people would gear so much faster, once people get all the gear they need, then most people would have nothing else to do after that. People would be dropping out of the game pretty quick.

So knowing how this company works, wanting to bleed us of all our money, then we can say maybe that this drop system was intend to drag out the grinding hours for gear. I'm sure anyone who played RO1 when it was hardcore would know that leveling was well beyond what most online games had in terms of hours being invested. This is like a modern day story of Tantalus.




That is just my theory anyways. I just want true RNG droprate.

You're not listening though. I'm not asking for them to make it so drops dropped based on classes that were INSIDE the party. I'm asking for them to make loot RANDOM. Thats the way it should be. It shouldn't be loot dropping for classes 40-60% of the time just because they're not in the party. Likewise it SHOULD NOT be loot dropping for classes 40-60% of the time just because they are in the party. All im asking is that it is fair and random. The way it is right now it is not random. You can influence what you get based on your party composition which is clear proof it is not random.

I would agree with you on your 2nd mini paragraph but the fact is, this only happens with BM/Knight/Monk classes, no other class regardless if they are in the party or not experience this insane drop rate of gear in dungeons. So long as you have a Knight(tank) BM(dps) and Monk(dps) you will see balanced(on average) loot drops across the board and it will truly be random. All im asking is they make this the case irregardless of whats in your party. The way the game should be.

Besides, if they want to claim its not a bug, i asked for them to do just that if it is indeed on purpose. The way it is now it seems it might be a bug but unless a CM like Njoror actually comes in here and say its not a bug its designed to be this way, i'm going to continue to believe it is and that they're just not aware of it which means they won't make the devs aware of it(which never promises it'll get fixed anyway but it at least starts the process)

Edited by sephiroso, 30 May 2013 - 10:30 AM.

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#38 ODKN

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:46 AM

You're not listening though. I'm not asking for them to make it so drops dropped based on classes that were INSIDE the party. I'm asking for them to make loot RANDOM. Thats the way it should be. It shouldn't be loot dropping for classes 40-60% of the time just because they're not in the party. Likewise it SHOULD NOT be loot dropping for classes 40-60% of the time just because they are in the party. All im asking is that it is fair and random. The way it is right now it is not random. You can influence what you get based on your party composition which is clear proof it is not random.

I would agree with you on your 2nd mini paragraph but the fact is, this only happens with BM/Knight/Monk classes, no other class regardless if they are in the party or not experience this insane drop rate of gear in dungeons. So long as you have a Knight(tank) BM(dps) and Monk(dps) you will see balanced(on average) loot drops across the board and it will truly be random. All im asking is they make this the case irregardless of whats in your party. The way the game should be.

Besides, if they want to claim its not a bug, i asked for them to do just that if it is indeed on purpose. The way it is now it seems it might be a bug but unless a CM like Njoror actually comes in here and say its not a bug its designed to be this way, i'm going to continue to believe it is and that they're just not aware of it which means they won't make the devs aware of it(which never promises it'll get fixed anyway but it at least starts the process)



Generally speaking, there will always be more loot that your party can't wear than what your party can wear. Thus the seemingly biased drop rates.
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#39 sephiroso

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:51 AM

^ Not speaking to you in this thread, but for anyone else who still thinks things are normal and fine. It is not normal for 40-60% of the loot drops to be biased towards only 3 classes so long as those 3 classes are not in the party. Get into a party with those 3 tank classes and you will see just how -NOT often loot drops for them in said party.(by 3 i mean knight/bm/monk)

Edited by sephiroso, 30 May 2013 - 10:51 AM.

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#40 Blackthunder

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

+1 for BM/Monk stuff alot drops.
But i would add Priest too , yes priest. Almost always drops in my Partys
Last time a Priest whined "ahaha never drop priest gear Q__Q" , i said dont worry, in my party always drops priest gear...party end, 3 Priest drops =p

+1 for Moar Wiz drops plx

Edited by Blackthunder, 31 May 2013 - 09:35 AM.

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#41 OxBLaurens

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:35 AM

This is an interesting topic. I too have noticed quite a few monk drops in earlier dungeons. However what I notice most atm is rogue drops. What I notice least is priest drops. I'm a BM myself, I've had as much as 3 items in 1 run of Sandarman, and also 5 runs of cgs in a row without any gear.

It is almost impossible that the party composition affects the drop rate.

Drop chance is usually programmed as follows:

There is a map with numbers connected to items, called the drop table. Common items will have multiple numbers associated with them to increase their drop chance. Rare items like cards might only have 1 number associated with them to reduce the chances of getting drops. For dungeon bosses all the gear items will presumably have an equal chance of dropping, it'd be a weird mistake if that isn't the case.

When a mob/boss dies, a number has to be generated and we'll look at the corresponding item in the drop table, this is the item that will drop. This number is generated 'randomly'. I add quotation marks because it is impossible for a computer to truely randomise a number. You can't ask a computer to do something 'randomly' several times in a row, it will always follow some predictable pattern.

A way around this has been found in the form of 'pseudo-random algorithms'. You can read up on those on wikipedia. These algorithms require an initial value to get started, this is called the 'seed'. By having a different seed each time, you can ensure a spread of values as close to randomness as possible.

The seed is usually chosen by looking at the system clock; In the case of RO2 I would imagine they use the server clock for all their random requirements.

This is how it should be done.
I don't see how the party composition can possibly affect this process. Party composition obviously doesn't affect the drop table, it also won't affect the pseudo-random algorithm.
The only way it could be involved is if they use the party composition for the generation of the seed. However:
1) This is pointless. The seed does not 'steer' the values returned by the algorithm, hence picking seeds based on parties won't have the effect you're looking for.
2) This requires a lot of unnecessary work. The system clock provides a fine seed. If you want to use party composition for your seed generation you will have to find a way to translate the party composition into a number, you'll have to make sure that these numbers are spread (e.g. a party of 5 warriors shouldn't give the same seed as 5 monks) which isn't trivial, etc etc. And as above, it doesn't accomplish anything.

I highly doubt they did this.

Alternatively, their might be different drop tables for different party compositions. E.g. there could be code that says: If party contains no BM/monk use this drop table, and then the droptable referenced contains mostly BM/Monk items. In this case it's not a bug, it's intentional. I don't think the devs are this cruel, though.

Most likely you are just having some bad luck. You'd need a sample size of thousand dungeon runs to get some statistically significant results.
As someone pointed out in the thread already, tank items are more likely to get dropped simply because there's 2 variations of each item.

TL;DR
It is almost impossible for party composition to affect drop chances.
Random chance is random.

Edited by OxBLaurens, 01 June 2013 - 01:37 AM.

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#42 Ruka87

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:28 AM

Done some runs @ Ghost Ship, like 15-20, and obviously got always BM\Monk\Knight gear: 3 Monk pieces in a run with a Monk tank, always get BM weapon from the second boss, got 3 times in a row the knight shield, only chest\hat dropped for priest and only weapon for Wizard\Sorc\Ranger.
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#43 sephiroso

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

~snip~

you and odkn have said the same thing over and over. i keep telling you both you can EASILY see party composition has a direct effect on what drops based on what tank classes you have in the party. not going to bother saying it another time in more detail.
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#44 OxBLaurens

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

you and odkn have said the same thing over and over. i keep telling you both you can EASILY see party composition has a direct effect on what drops based on what tank classes you have in the party. not going to bother saying it another time in more detail.


And I just told you that doesn't make any sense from a programming point of view. Also note people in the thread saying the opposite of your claims (many monk pieces with monk in party / many BM pieces with BM in party)

So lose the caps lock, it's not 'easily' seen at all.

Edited by OxBLaurens, 01 June 2013 - 11:34 AM.

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#45 sephiroso

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:28 PM

And I just told you that doesn't make any sense from a programming point of view. Also note people in the thread saying the opposite of your claims (many monk pieces with monk in party / many BM pieces with BM in party)

So lose the caps lock, it's not 'easily' seen at all.

by many people you mean you and odkn pretty much EVERYONE else is agreeing with me. and from a programming point of view if the game was programmed correctly you're right it doesnt make sense, but obviously the game wasn't programmed correctly and thus why this is posted under bug reports.
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#46 Puppet

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

this a REALLY BAD gear drop system for dungeons. 30+ runs and still no gear for my class yet System needs to be changed to take in to account what is in the group and ever one has chance of getting atlest 1 peice for the class drop per run. Till such happens I think i will be going back to swtor.

I have no intrest in run Dungeon if gear isnt even gona drop yet the system will drop gear for classes not even in the party.
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#47 sephiroso

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:45 PM

this a REALLY BAD gear drop system for dungeons. 30+ runs and still no gear for my class yet System needs to be changed to take in to account what is in the group and ever one has chance of getting atlest 1 peice for the class drop per run. Till such happens I think i will be going back to swtor.

I have no intrest in run Dungeon if gear isnt even gona drop yet the system will drop gear for classes not even in the party.

honestly doesn't and shouldn't take into account of what is in the group, it should just be truly random which is not the case which is why you and many others experience running a large amount of dungeons without seeing anything drop for your class even once.
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#48 Puppet

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:58 PM

No it a really bad system and needs to drop gear randomly according to what in the group, Much like othe MMO's Or it will turn people away. No one wants to run 20+ runs and see nothing for there class, yet gear of some class not even in the group constently drop. Gravity need to get with the times or fail again, just like in ro1 with there screw ups RO1 is giant inbalanced game at this point.

But I would much rather have the drop system from RO1 atlest I know if kill the same thing enough times I WILL get the gear I after. This system is completely frustrating
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