13 replies to this topic

[Reinalia]

is it really not worth going for?

[weaseI]

1. 6 skills point.
2. Like 10% more damage only compare to aura strike+bash due to long animation. Check the other thread. It also have potential to outdamage shield canon due to crit and aura mastery.

Idk tho if the animation can be cut from stacking haste gear. So i dont really see any merit...up for you to decide.

[sephiroso]

1. 6 skills point.
2. Like 10% more damage only compare to aura strike+bash due to long animation. Check the other thread. It also have potential to outdamage shield canon due to crit and aura mastery.

Idk tho if the animation can be cut from stacking haste gear. So i dont really see any merit...up for you to decide.

the-_- you getting your information from? first off as tank knight(if you're dps knight then kill yourself) you have more than enough skill points to go around getting everything you need and 5/5 shield cannon.

second off, 10% more dmg over auras trike and bash? i just don't even know where to begin, i get what you're saying. but that logic is so its makes me cringe. there is NO dmg skill tank get that does more dmg than shield cannon. if you get 2 crits with shield cannon, it does waaaay more dmg than you'll ever see even if both bash and aura strike were to both crit. and i see 2x crits happen somewhat often.

in the end, it comes down to you not really having anywhere better to spend your points, and if you think shield cannon sucks then idonteven.

[weaseI]

u mad bro? I dont have to give details the equation if you can read the warrior vs knight thread for yourself. It even have crit chance calculation.

And yes, that mere 10% is not worth it when you can spend them on other skills for more versatility on pve

[sephiroso]

u mad bro? I dont have to give details the equation if you can read the warrior vs knight thread for yourself. It even have crit chance calculation.

And yes, that mere 10% is not worth it when you can spend them on other skills for more versatility on pve

there are no other skills you need to have in pve is my point. what good is lower cooldown on shield charge? i guess lower cooldown on shield bash is nice for more stun but most stuff you fight(i.e. bosses) are unstunnable. and trash mobs ...they die quick anyway. So again as a tank knight perspective, there isn't where else thats better to spend the points.

also why would i read a warrior vs knight thread? this is about shield cannon. not warrior vs knight.

also for your comment on not knowing if haste speeds up animation time, it does. though it doesnt really matter cause a knight using haste gear needs to stop playing.(not talking about in colo or soloing dailies)

Edited by sephiroso, 27 May 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Varunax]

Haha. I don't know why Knights are skipping out Shield Cannon. You should have more than enough skill points at 50 to get Shield Cannon for burst damage and every other skill you want to get.

Also, it doesn't do just 10% more damage than Bash... Level 5 Shield Cannon is 88% with a 30 sec cool down.

ATK Power * Skill Level = DMG

So if you have 1500 Attack Power it would amount to:

1500 * .88 = 1320 damage.

1320 damage with Shield Cannon and 2640 crits.

If you use Lv.5 Bash

1500 * .25 = 375 DMG (750 crits)

It would take 4 bashes to equal 1 Shield Cannon in terms of damage.

[sephiroso]

Haha. I don't know why Knights are skipping out Shield Cannon. You should have more than enough skill points at 50 to get Shield Cannon for burst damage and every other skill you want to get.

Also, it doesn't do just 10% more damage than Bash... Level 5 Shield Cannon is 88% with a 30 sec cool down.

ATK Power * Skill Level = DMG

So if you have 1500 Attack Power it would amount to:

1500 * .88 = 1320 damage.

1320 damage with Shield Cannon and 2640 crits.

If you use Lv.5 Bash

1500 * .25 = 375 DMG (750 crits)

It would take 4 bashes to equal 1 Shield Cannon in terms of damage.

he was counting bash + 3 aura'd aurastrike. when he said 10% more. Which is completely stupid thing to say but /shrug.

I am with you 100% though, i think its stupid to not get shield cannon as a knight, we seriously have more than enough points to get it and every other skill just like you said. there is no better place to put the points. and it does insanely nice burst dmg which is amazing for colosseum, and just overall nice skill to have for dps'ing in general.

[weaseI]

Double post

Edited by weaseI, 28 May 2013 - 12:36 AM.

[weaseI]

I did do the approximate math on HC5 versus HC1 rotation under the contested circumstances. The DoT ticks do not appear to be affected by haste (if they are it will make a difference in output, but not in a comparison), and this was assuming the interval for the skills takes place within the assumed 1.7-2 seconds we believe Shield Cannon takes to cast. Essentially, Level 1 HC is 3.5% weapon damage per second and Level 5 HC is 5% weapon damage per second, this makes our approximation such that you can simply add 3.5% weapon damage for however long your interval is. Just remember this is theory and that the DoT only ticks every 2 seconds, so if you're fighting something and it dies before the 10 second mark it will skew the expected weapon damage per second of HC. Though, over a long enough interval (5-6 minutes) it should be very close to the predicted 3.5-5%.

Regarding the AS/B/B or SC choice, I can't really endorse either angle yet, but, I would point out one thing I've been spending a small bit of time on and see if it makes sense to anyone else...

Aura Strike skill hits for substantially harder than the individual ticks of shield cannon (45% vs 29.33%), so what happens if we can assume the below:

(Recall the 1.36 multiplier used above to establish a pseudo-average over the course of an encounter, numbers without a *1.36 are unable to crit for the scenario.)

AS Hit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
45% + 25% + 8.33% = 78.33%

AS Crit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
(45%*1.36) + 25% + 8.33% = 94.53%

AS Hit, Bash Crit, 1/3rd Bash Hit
45% + (25%*1.36)+ 8.33%= 81.83%

AS Hit, Bash Hit, 1/3rd Bash Crit
45% + 25%+ (8.33%*1.36)= 81.32%

SC Hit, Hit, Hit
29.33% + 29.33% + 29.33% = 88%

SC Crit, Hit, Hit
39.88% + 29.33% + 29.33% = 98.54.3%

This could indicate that if AS would always crit, then it would over take an SC by a small (6.5%) margin even if the B/B portion were completely unable to crit. However, due to the balanced nature of the SC's damage if even one of the ticks are able to crit, it will overtake an ASCrit/B/B.

The only immediate implication I can really think of regarding this behavior is the reinforcement of my recommendation to dump AM procs into AS and only use Auras to cast shield cannon. I have a visual of my reasoning, but I'm finding a lack of words for it at the moment, I'll try to illustrate or graph it out and submit it here for feedback later on.

Unfortunately, I found this thread while thoroughly exhausted so I apologize if it is incoherent, but I wanted to put my two cents in on the HC1 vs HC5 discussion...

I, personally, would not invest more than the initial point in to head crush. The damage increase per point spent for the DoT is really lackluster. If I were to build a Knight focused on dps, Ih would do something like this. Having Aura Shield at that level would allow you to save auras by preventing the need to cancel Concentration due to incoming damage and if you did need to cancel it, the cd would be substantially more potent. At the simplest level the difference in damage from HC5 to HC1 is approximately 1.5% over the course of a fight. I would rather have the survival cooldown that could save my auras for offensive skills instead of refreshing a cancelled concentration.

The reason why SC was discussed in that thread because of the long animation. The combination of skills stated in above post doesnt make SC so incredible.

[Varunax]

Well.. try to run at someone and Aura Strike them 3 times while they're kiting you. You'll have trouble managing to get like 1 bash in let alone an Aura Strike or you'll just end up being stunned, rooted, slowed, etc. SC is for burst damage so as long as you even start the animation on somebody, they're gonna get hit even if they run 20m away.

As for overall damage, just smashing Bash / AS does it in the long run... but why argue about DPS on a knight anyway? Not investing points into SC is up to the person, but honestly, there is so much speculation and lack of understanding on how skills work that people are just spouting it as facts now.

I had to re-skill 2 times because there were so many guides on why skill X is not good and guess what? After hitting 50, getting some decent high level gear from RHD and PvP.. I learned that those guides had no idea what in the world they were talking about. Then again, what guide on any MMO is ever right when the game just came out?

TL;DR

Even if you didn't invest into Shield Cannon, what are you going to put your points into? Shield Boomerang? Shield Boomerang mastery? Shield/Bash/Charge? All those attacks are for PvP and Aura Heal just sucks with Battle Orders being optional since Warriors can sub for it.

[Jargous]

A maxed Shield Charge sets the tone for many people who believe a tank is easy.

[sephiroso]

A maxed Shield Charge sets the tone for many people who believe a tank is easy.

dont get what you mean by this. if you're talking about pvp, well we get it, shield charge is pvp but if you're pvping and you're nto maxing shield cannon then you're retarded. if you're saying max shield charge for pve tanking....then no. just no.

Edited by sephiroso, 28 May 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[Jargous]

You don't need to max shield cannon to excel in pvp (it is great to have). It's a KS battle, learn how to time your skills. There are many ways to retain aggro, but you seem to aim for a cookie cutter build that can magically do everything. Know your limit, play within it.

[sephiroso]

You don't need to max shield cannon to excel in pvp (it is great to have). It's a KS battle, learn how to time your skills. There are many ways to retain aggro, but you seem to aim for a cookie cutter build that can magically do everything. Know your limit, play within it.

again there is simply 0 need for a maxed shield charge, cookie cutter builds are generally cookie cutter because they are simply the best there is to get. if you want to go against the generally accepted best build and choose to max shield charge for pve tanking then go right ahead but don't act like its for any other reason than you just wanting to be different.

also i stay with my earlier statement, if you're actively pvping and you don't get max shield cannon, you're retarded.