14 replies to this topic

[Xafir]

HI I am trying to make a battle tactics warrior tank build and am having trouble deciding what to go with. Below are 2 builds that I am thinking of:

http://www.ro2base.c...7.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

http://www.ro2base.c...7.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

I am wondering considering I have a dedicated healer how useful is tension relax in colo or raids? Also since rage strike has a 2 second animation and a male warrior can do 2 aura strikes in that time for the same amount of damage and this does not have a 20 second cooldown is rage strike actually worth the points? Lastly for a tank is the decrease in dodge rating worth the 20% extra attack you get from berserk?

[sephiroso]

First off, if your main job is tanking whether its main or off tanking. Scrap Berserk from your mind.(well maybe can keep if you're off tanking, but definitely not if you're main tanking.)

As for tension relax, that completely depends on your healers. I know i run with good players, so i won't have to worry about needing maxed tension relax to stay alive. Sure things happen, bad strong of crits happen, but on a whole, maxing tension relax if you know you're running with good heals is a waste of points.

As for Rage strike. So you're saying you can Bash 3x, use Aura strike, and Bash 3x and use Aura strike again in the time it takes you to use 1 Rage strike?

Actually gave a look at the builds. You are gimping yourself if you do not max Bash and Aura Strike. For how often you use both of those skills they are a must max skill. Also, bear in mind, you don't have to actually max Parrying. You can easily reach Parry cap without max Parry with good enough gear. While this is the case, i find it odd that you have Parrying at lvl 1 for both builds. It's literally like the staple of why warrior tanks are so nice. Specially since you're asking these questions, your gear can't be that great. Which means you should probably have more points in parry. Unless you're trying to future proof your build...but even then lvl 1 Parry...*shrug*

Honestly not sure if Battle tactics is worth it to a tank warrior. Knights have skill points to play around with so its fine for knights, Warriors however have to not only get Aura Armor, but also 5/5 Defender, which just sucks even more points from overall build.

Edited by sephiroso, 29 May 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Xafir]

My thought on rage strike was that it costs 50 rage and for 60 rage you could use 2 aura strikes in the same amount of time and this would not cost an extra 5 points and have a 20 second cooldown. Rage strike does hit muitiple targets however and since you say berserk is not ideal for a tank perhaps I can drop it to put more points into aura strike and bash.

As for parrying the max parry rate is 70% which can be attained without even using the buff, but I guess at lower gear levels it is advised that I get it and just respec later when I hit the 70% cap without it?

[sephiroso]

My thought on rage strike was that it costs 50 rage and for 60 rage you could use 2 aura strikes in the same amount of time and this would not cost an extra 5 points and have a 20 second cooldown. Rage strike does hit muitiple targets however and since you say berserk is not ideal for a tank perhaps I can drop it to put more points into aura strike and bash.

As for parrying the max parry rate is 70% which can be attained without even using the buff, but I guess at lower gear levels it is advised that I get it and just respec later when I hit the 70% cap without it?

actually wait, im sorry i was thinking with the mindset of a knight and that aura strike needs 3 aura to do its max dmg. reading the rage controlling, it says 100 rage = 1 aura effect. so does that mean 300 rage = 3 aura effect which is what you'd need to get the max dmg from aura strike? how fast can you get 300 rage (can you even get 300 rage?)

basically it comes down to, Rage strike = 50 rage. But For a 3 aura'd Aura strike, how much rage is that equal to?

[Xafir]

30 rage is needed for a max aura strike 10 rage = 1 aura.

[sephiroso]

ahh i see, in that case its probably the same case in the knight discussion whether shield cannon is worth getting because someone here on the forums believe its not worth it cause of the animation lock, but its the best you can hope for for burst dmg(which is mainly only needed in colo). so honestly it's probably the same for warrior and rage strike, where rage strike is definitely amazing to have even tho 2 aura strikes might do more.

actually just looked at the skills numbers more closely. rage strike 50 rage = 90% dmg. Aura strike = 30 Rage for max aura strike = 45% dmg, so you need 2 Aura Strikes just to EQUAL 1 Rage strike. So it would actually take you 3 Aura Strikes to surpass 1 Rage strike. and even just trying to equal Rage strike you're looking at 50 rage for Rage strike vs 60 rage for Aura strike.

I'd say its pretty clear Rage strike wins out for itself in dmg even with the slight animation lock it has. Not to mention you said Rage strike hits more than 1 target so even more in favor for Rage Strike

Edited by sephiroso, 29 May 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[DELiTO]

In my opinion, the second build is a very nice build for main-tanking AND off-tanking. Maybe you could put 5 points on Aura Strike and leave 2 on Bash.

Rage Strike is a great skill and it's a must-have. It builds your aggro more than the other skills, specially when it crits. It's an AoE skill that can hit up to 3 enemies, that means as long as you are not dealing with 3+ mobs you won't have to cast Brandish Storm(and it's unbelievably long animation time) to keep the mobs away from the rest of the team.

Correct me if I am wrong, Berserker is a damage buff, therefore it helps building aggro as well. If this is right, you should max it in order to stay at the top of the Threat meter. DPS classes can easily catch up to us if we play around, we all know that.

Managing your Rage with Bashes and Bowling Bashes so you have room for Aura Strikes and Rage Strike can be quite complicated. The skill rotation is messed up but it's really something that you get used to as you play.

Edited by DELiTO, 29 May 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Xafir]

That is the build that I was leaning toward the most so it is good to hear that you think it is good for main/off tanking DELiTO. Out of curiosity though why do you suggest more aura strike over higher bash since since they give the same % increase and you will likely be spamming bash more often then aura strike.

[sephiroso]

In my opinion, the second build is a very nice build for main-tanking AND off-tanking. Maybe you could put 5 points on Aura Strike and leave 2 on Bash.

Rage Strike is a great skill and it's a must-have. It builds your aggro more than the other skills, specially when it crits. It's an AoE skill that can hit up to 3 enemies, that means as long as you are not dealing with 3+ mobs you won't have to cast Brandish Storm(and it's unbelievably long animation time) to keep the mobs away from the rest of the team.

Correct me if I am wrong, Berserker is a damage buff, therefore it helps building aggro as well. If this is right, you should max it in order to stay at the top of the Threat meter. DPS classes can easily catch up to us if we play around, we all know that.

Managing your Rage with Bashes and Bowling Bashes so you have room for Aura Strikes and Rage Strike can be quite complicated. The skill rotation is messed up but it's really something that you get used to as you play.

you don't need berserk for more aggro for tanking, thats what aura armor is for. berserk is for dps or pvp warriors. berserk lets you do more dmg but at the cost of a BIG hit in dodge which tanks dont want.

[DELiTO]

That is the build that I was leaning toward the most so it is good to hear that you think it is good for main/off tanking DELiTO. Out of curiosity though why do you suggest more aura strike over higher bash since since they give the same % increase and you will likely be spamming bash more often then aura strike.

I didn't do the math, I just like big numbers. I think more % damage for a skill that deals more damage is more advisable? I am not sure though, we Bash twice as much as Aura Strike, I am not certain of anything there because I suck at math. And by the way it's not the same % , Aura Strike obviously does more damage, I wish I had the Damage Dealt formula so I could calculate the damage done in both cases.

@sephiroso

It is true that Berserk has 10% dodge decrease, however, more damage means more aggro. I am not lv. 50 yet, I don't know if I can out-aggro the DPS classes in raids without Berserker. As I said before in my post, I might be wrong about how this skill work in practice, for example, in a 10 people raid.

Edited by DELiTO, 29 May 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[sephiroso]

I didn't do the math, I just like big numbers. I think more % damage for a skill that deals more damage is more advisable? I am not sure though, we Bash twice as much as Aura Strike, I am not certain of anything there because I suck at math. And by the way it's not the same % , Aura Strike obviously does more damage, I wish I had the Damage Dealt formula so I could calculate the damage done in both cases.

@sephiroso

It is true that Berserk has 10% dodge decrease, however, more damage means more aggro. I am not lv. 50 yet, I don't know if I can out-aggro the DPS classes in raids without Berserker. As I said before in my post, I might be wrong about how this skill work in practice, for example, in a 10 people raid.

yea, trust me aura armor is all you need for threat generation, don't need any dmg boosts for more aggro.

As for Aura Strike Bash. Leveling up purposes, Bash does more dmg, The reason Aura Strike does more dmg Delito is because Aura Strike has a 2nd component that it gets its dmg from, in that it does 7% more dmg per aura effect, this stays constant from lvl 1 to lvl 5. So thats why leveling bash is better than leveling aura strike.

[DELiTO]

yea, trust me aura armor is all you need for threat generation, don't need any dmg boosts for more aggro.

As for Aura Strike Bash. Leveling up purposes, Bash does more dmg, The reason Aura Strike does more dmg Delito is because Aura Strike has a 2nd component that it gets its dmg from, in that it does 7% more dmg per aura effect, this stays constant from lvl 1 to lvl 5. So thats why leveling bash is better than leveling aura strike.

I understand. Why not 5 Bash and 2 Aura Strike then?

[sephiroso]

I understand. Why not 5 Bash and 2 Aura Strike then?

personally i'd rather max bash/aura strike than have battle tactics as a warrior. but thats just me.

[Xafir]

I am now debating between the 2nd build from the original post and the following build:

http://www.ro2base.c...310543.22310543

The way I see it berserk is a 10% increase and helps if you keep it up constantly (20% every 30 seconds with a 60second cooldown) and it would offset the loss of 2% dmg from bash and 4% loss from aura strike. The downside to berserk is the dodge decrease and the fact that in the berserk build parrying is only at 1 which would not allow me to hit the parry cap till I had full colo gear.

[sephiroso]

I am now debating between the 2nd build from the original post and the following build:

http://www.ro2base.c...310543.22310543

The way I see it berserk is a 10% increase and helps if you keep it up constantly (20% every 30 seconds with a 60second cooldown) and it would offset the loss of 2% dmg from bash and 4% loss from aura strike. The downside to berserk is the dodge decrease and the fact that in the berserk build parrying is only at 1 which would not allow me to hit the parry cap till I had full colo gear.

really if you plan on tanking at all then dont even think about getting berserk. only if your aim is for hybrid, sometimes tank sometimes dps, but you're not going to be using berserk when you're MTing or OTing.