14 replies to this topic

[SolidJelly]

I did a bit of digging and came up with some info from the SEA server:

Link is here:
http://forums.playpa...e/page__st__150

Quote from MaxHydra:
"If you want to become FS, then meditatio is of course better since u will be focusing healing skill more. Beside, Meditatio work at best for late game FS Priest that can reach up to 125% hit rate or maybe more."

Quote from chng08:
"Also Meditatio works even better if you have decent critical rate. By the way, this skill not only work well on FS Priests, but even Hybrid Priests are benefited from this skill as well although they can only keep this skill at Lv.1. Let's say your hit rate is 125%, 30%(125-95) of hit rate multiplied by 3.4(340%), you'll get 102% additional Crit heal. Let's say heal without crit is 1000, then it will heal extra 1000 when crit, but since meditatio effect gives additional crit heal of 102%, Then total ammount healed will be 1000+1000+1020=3020. But it's still recommended for FS Priests to max this skill."

As you can see, end game FS Priests with gear that we currently don't have yet, will reach a high enough hit rate for this skill to become effective. With better gear later on, our critrate will naturally be higher as well, allowing us to pull off more crit heals. That's where Meditatio kicks in, it's recommended over Archangel for FS according to that thread.

[synesthetic]

Two issues.
1) You need Kafra Shop buffs to reach that kind of Hit Rate. Without them, you'd hover barely above 100%.
2) I recall reading the effectiveness of Meditatio caps out at 100% Hit Rate, which would be a 25% crit heal bonus with maxed Meditatio. I'd like to hear confirmation on this though.

[SolidJelly]

Two issues.
1) You need Kafra Shop buffs to reach that kind of Hit Rate. Without them, you'd hover barely above 100%.
2) I recall reading the effectiveness of Meditatio caps out at 100% Hit Rate, which would be a 25% crit heal bonus with maxed Meditatio. I'd like to hear confirmation on this though.

1) Even in full AoD gear?
2) Really? Never heard of this before, got a source?

[AngeChan]

AoD equips are hardly better than colo gears. Full colo priest has just barely 100% hit rate. AoD maybe up to 105% maximum, if that.

[SolidJelly]

AoD equips are hardly better than colo gears. Full colo priest has just barely 100% hit rate. AoD maybe up to 105% maximum, if that.

Let's assume 105%. The example they used was lv 1 Meditatio, which is 340%. If it was lv 5 Meditatio, it will be 500%.
(105% - 95%) hitrate = 10
10 * 500 = 50%

So assuming you have 105% hit rate, you get an extra 50% in your crit heals. This means if you normally heal 1000 HP, you heal 2500 HP with a crit (since crit = +100%)

That's not too bad. With Kafra potions, if you get to 125% hit rate as their example, if you do the math, it's an extra 150% in your crit heals. So if you normally heal 1000 HP, you heal 3500 HP with a crit.

Sure, some may argue that it only works when you crit. But if it does crit, it tops off a good chunk of HP, since many tanks get up to 7000+ HP later on in the game.

[synesthetic]

2) Really? Never heard of this before, got a source?

I've been looking for it, but I can't find it again. I know I read it once though, and even that person said that was supposedly how it works in kRO2, but wasn't speaking from personal experience.
In any case, I can't quote it, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

If anyone has a decently-geared 50 Priest with an Eyeshade on seaRO2 or something, they could test it out for maybe 15+ minutes, and then test again without the Eyeshade equipped. Even with Lv.1 Meditatio. List off matk, Hit Rate, Heal level, and crit heal range.
Eyeshade gives about 4.57% Hit Rate there. So if a Priest there can pull off maybe about 103% Hit Rate with the Eyeshade equipped, then if Meditatio is not capped at 100%, there should be a pretty clear 10% difference between the two data sets.

[Jargous]

The only problem is justifying the 500% bonus over a 380% bonus. For those that have archangel, this requires a lot of sacrificing from sanctuary and coluseo. Non-archangel builds would have a good shot at having it but it is still hard to justify.

1000 heal becomes 2380 at Lv 1 Meditatio. If you can justify an extra 120 on healing, perhaps, perhaps you can say so. Meditatio used to be going in increments of 100% per level, but as of now, it has a starting value at 380% if I'm correct.

[synesthetic]

340, 380, 420, 460, 500

[SolidJelly]

Yeah, now that I look back at it, 500-340 = 160 difference
Meaning:
lv 1 Meditatio crit heal = 2340 HP
lv 5 Meditatio crit heal = 2500 HP
I guess it's more for complete FS priests who want to main heal tanks under heavy fire. Obviously this would be for a non-Archangel build, there's simply not enough points to fit it into an Archangel build without sacrificing some important stuff. I wouldn't call it "inferior" to an Archangel build though, it's just different.
Archangel has 60 seconds downtime during which the skill has no effect
Meditatio's effect occurs everytime you crit with heal/HH
I suppose if there's a way to boost hit rate (eg. Union headgear), this would really start to make a difference. Also, as new raids and stronger equipment comes out with more hit rate, Meditatio will start to shine.

Edited by SolidJelly, 07 June 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[Jargous]

As of now, it would be inferior. Compare a lv 5 archangel to that of a lv 5 meditatio. At 2500 matk (for simple purposes we'll use a lv 4 heal) and 103% hit rate

Without archangel - 1000 heal
With archangel - 1250 heal

On a critical

Without archangel - 2400
With archangel - 2840

To find out the hit rate where a lv 5 meditatio would trump lv 5 archangel it would be with an average heal of 1000 will be...

1000(1 + 0.05x) = 1250 (1 + 0.034x)
50x = 250 + 42.5x
7.5x = 250
x = 33.3(repeating)

This would imply that you would need 128.33% to beat it out, which would strictly imply that there will either be gears to get up there (and possibly kafra shop items). Or 3rd job would put priests in a situation where getting archangel and sacrament will not be a viable option in the future. No matter the heal bonus, the hit value required would be exactly that.

[SolidJelly]

As of now, it would be inferior. Compare a lv 5 archangel to that of a lv 5 meditatio. At 2500 matk (for simple purposes we'll use a lv 4 heal) and 103% hit rate

Without archangel - 1000 heal
With archangel - 1250 heal

On a critical

Without archangel - 2400
With archangel - 2840

To find out the hit rate where a lv 5 meditatio would trump lv 5 archangel it would be with an average heal of 1000 will be...

1000(1 + 0.05x) = 1250 (1 + 0.034x)
50x = 250 + 42.5x
7.5x = 250
x = 33.3(repeating)

This would imply that you would need 128.33% to beat it out, which would strictly imply that there will either be gears to get up there (and possibly kafra shop items). Or 3rd job would put priests in a situation where getting archangel and sacrament will not be a viable option in the future. No matter the heal bonus, the hit value required would be exactly that.

Yes, the calculations are right, but you're forgetting one thing:

Archangel last 30 seconds only and then you need to wait 60 seconds after that, before the cooldown is over. During 60 seconds, the skill Archangel gives NOTHING.
That's what I don't like about Archangel, it's not consistent. Bosses aren't going to stop hitting hard because your Archangel is on its 60 second cooldown...

[Jargous]

Even if you take out archangel. At 1000 heal, a 105% hit rate grants at best 160 heal on a crit. Consider your crit rate now, probably 20% with all buffs (I'm at 25%). Unless you can somehow master and have nothing but crit heals along the way, you're not getting that much further. It's still a longshot to go max meditatio.

[AngeChan]

Max meditatio is quite useless until people get 10k++ hp. With raid buff only, I have 3100 matk and 32% crit. Using Archangel I get nearly 4k matk. My highest crit HH with Asp/AA nearly 8k, not including HoT portion. Even without, I can crit 6k+. Most tanks don't have more hp than that. Even lv 1 heal heals for over 2k crit with only 1 point in Meditatio and no Archangel. Even max meditatio will only make me crit for 2200 instead of 2000. I am hybrid, so I don't have points to max heal even. If I did, I can heal for 2.9k crit already, and meditatio will be even more pointless, with 3.2k instead of 2.9k

Most of the time I overheal already, rather have Archangel for when boss gets mini-enrage or such, and I can time my CDs with it.

Edited by AngeChan, 07 June 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Jargous]

Max meditatio is quite useless until people get 10k++ hp. With raid buff only, I have 3100 matk and 32% crit. Using Archangel I get nearly 4k matk. My highest crit HH with Asp/AA nearly 8k, not including HoT portion. Even without, I can crit 6k+. Most tanks don't have more hp than that. Even lv 1 heal heals for over 2k crit with only 1 point in Meditatio and no Archangel. Even max meditatio will only make me crit for 2200 instead of 2000. I am hybrid, so I don't have points to max heal even. If I did, I can heal for 2.9k crit already, and meditatio will be even more pointless, with 3.2k instead of 2.9k

Most of the time I overheal already, rather have Archangel for when boss gets mini-enrage or such, and I can time my CDs with it.

Sounds like you have close to full colo gear and high + colo weapon.

[SolidJelly]

Yeah, maybe gear past AoD will give enough hit rate to start noticing a difference between lv 1 and lv 5...unless you like downing Kafra pots