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#101 to0n

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:28 PM

Video games.

 

Where did you go? :(


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#102 Kazra

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:33 PM

Where did you go? :(

 

:p_love:


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#103 Yurai

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:44 PM

Where did you go? :(

omg u da bestt


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#104 VolunteerMod02

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

Timewarp?


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#105 ohsnap

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

I have no doubt some players in here must be really good at what they do. My only problem is that pvp here is so much based on a few skills and one solid combo that it has become impossible to determine the best pvpers from just the good ones. 

 

Anyhow, I regretted starting the argument before, and I really don't wanna start it over.

 

Knowing different combos and mixing it up isn't as skillfull imo. I feel that skill comes down to those that can catch and maximize damage or ones that can dodge and read and figure out what's coming next. Also the decisions they make in groups or even 1v1 matches. The reason why NA uses a few moves is because they are the most effective why spend a whole pvp match making it all flashy. It's fun and a bonus if you can end it with a move to taunt your opponent like smacking them with an x atk or something. The way I see it is every server has a different style and no one is more effecttive than the other. IE. the jap players moving over to the NA server and showing us how aggressive or effective invokers have become ever since the elga updates. 


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#106 Rimmy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:17 AM


IE. the jap players moving over to the NA server and showing us how aggressive or effective invokers have become ever since the elga updates. /Quote

 

 

Because nothing takes more skill than holding "X" to deal 8-10K+ damage per second.


Edited by Rimmy, 08 July 2013 - 04:22 AM.

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#107 SharpX

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:31 AM

Knowing different combos and mixing it up isn't as skillfull imo. I feel that skill comes down to those that can catch and maximize damage or ones that can dodge and read and figure out what's coming next. Also the decisions they make in groups or even 1v1 matches. The reason why NA uses a few moves is because they are the most effective why spend a whole pvp match making it all flashy. It's fun and a bonus if you can end it with a move to taunt your opponent like smacking them with an x atk or something. The way I see it is every server has a different style and no one is more effecttive than the other. IE. the jap players moving over to the NA server and showing us how aggressive or effective invokers have become ever since the elga updates. 

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. The whole point of restricting/reducing some combos in pvp is to make it FAIR for the other player who don't have that kind of advantage in their classes. Invokers literally require no skill if they play the way you mentioned; smacking them with an x atk lols. All the other classes have their own ridiculous skills and combos too; Grenadier's sniper, warriors insane amount of lockdown(also capable of locks)/aerial moves and damage, etc. I do agree with you that other servers have their own styles but that doesn't remove the fact that the "fairness" factor shouldn't be added. I'm guessing you're one of the players that actually performs those kinds of "combos" as well just from looking at what you typed

 

"It's fun and a bonus if you can end it with a move to taunt your opponent like smacking them with an x atk or something"

 

Of course you would find it fun if you're the one doing it. I'm pretty sure that if you're caught in the same combo trap as well then you would also find it unfair and annoying as hell. 


Edited by SharpX, 08 July 2013 - 05:34 AM.

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#108 neberhax

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

Guess its all about priority. The options are simple.

 

Either pick the most efficient way and show off with your win/loss rate,

or go for an own playstyle and become well-known for what you can do.

 

I have made my choice ^^


Edited by neberhax, 08 July 2013 - 05:34 AM.

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#109 mag727

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

irregardless of the players method of dealing damage/combo (since everyone has their own version or variant) there should be other factors to consider.  

 

Predicting attacks, dodging, catching, crowd control, etc.


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#110 mag727

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:33 AM

why not just be an invoker and do the same thing then and see if its actually as easy as you think it is.  


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#111 StormHaven

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:56 AM

why not just be an invoker and do the same thing then and see if its actually as easy as you think it is.  

 

Invokers are actually incredibly easy to play and master...


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#112 mag727

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:03 AM

so you're a master invoker then? 


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#113 mag727

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

because to me, sentinels are quite easy too.  stack some mspd and aspd for quick shootdown hit and runs,launch traps randomly etc. 


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#114 StormHaven

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:17 AM

Sentinels are easy to pick up and learn, but to be consistently good at them? no.


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#115 Coolsam

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

so you're a master invoker then? 

 

Invokers aren't difficult to play. You have the glorious advantage of Barbarian and Witch's Curse which require 0 aim, Emergency Exit to escape, blink as an escape, instant and overt-time healing, and you are the downright most lethal class to have elements with. Not to mention 60+ with the often complained about magnet and Heaven's Wrath being a high damage and lethal stun to pulverize opponents. Only downside is you gotta work to bulk yourself up at times. And I mean bulk yourself up as in 500-750+ HLT and massive defense and also you need some high attack speed for extremely lethal X-combo'ing as well as Z/X-Combos to act as escapes at times.

 

You could pick up on the basics watching a typical endgame invoker. Not really Rim I love it when he mixes things up w/ that lightning dash thing.

 

because to me, sentinels are quite easy too.  stack some mspd and aspd for quick shootdown hit and runs,launch traps randomly etc. 

 

You've obviously been judging Sentinel skill in the BattleSquares where majortiy of them do hit-and-run traps, spam shootdowns, run around, and Anti-Air Shot spam w/ elements.

 

Try in a different pvp setting when they go full on death-aggro on you and watch your hp go from 100%-2% w/ just their ground-based combos and have it not even be considered any lock. And I'm talking about cases like Nillachan and Stormhaven. Also try surviving that aggressive play when you're silenced.


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#116 mag727

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

this post was made to incorporate other peoples view points, that i understand.  however, complaining about a class who you say is the most overpowered, well, that downright depends on the player playing it.  and if your combo doesn't work as well as you like or if the enemy doesn't use certain skills however you think he or she should that is your own biased opinion and even then that's fine, but to automatically think that if a player doesn't play a certain way against you or in a pvp situation then that player is bad at it then that's just sad.  what matters in the end are results,  i know invokers who could destroy anyone regardless of class even against other invokers with or without elements.  it depends on the player, and that is the most convincing argument here, not "class" (i know horrible invokers as well).  

 

however,  what i don't understand is the crying that's being done about certain classes, first ninjas and pallys, now invokers/priests etc.  do you guys ever stop or do you just like to cry about every single class ( or specific player) who demolishes you in pvp situations?  from my understanding you and storm are both mediocre in pvp at best but you both do the most talking.  


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#117 neberhax

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:17 AM

"what matters in the end are results."

 

Which is why ppl won't remember you as a pvper.


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#118 noxis

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

lol. who are you neber


Edited by noxis, 08 July 2013 - 08:23 AM.

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#119 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

  from my understanding you and storm are both mediocre in pvp at best but you both do the most talking.  

 

I like you. Hi, I'm Nilla. Let's be friends ok


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#120 SharpX

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:36 AM

this post was made to incorporate other peoples view points, that i understand.  however, complaining about a class who you say is the most overpowered, well, that downright depends on the player playing it.  and if your combo doesn't work as well as you like or if the enemy doesn't use certain skills however you think he or she should that is your own biased opinion and even then that's fine, but to automatically think that if a player doesn't play a certain way against you or in a pvp situation then that player is bad at it then that's just sad.  what matters in the end are results,  i know invokers who could destroy anyone regardless of class even against other invokers with or without elements.  it depends on the player, and that is the most convincing argument here, not "class" (i know horrible invokers as well).  

 

however,  what i don't understand is the crying that's being done about certain classes, first ninjas and pallys, now invokers/priests etc.  do you guys ever stop or do you just like to cry about every single class ( or specific player) who demolishes you in pvp situations?  from my understanding you and storm are both mediocre in pvp at best but you both do the most talking.  

 

It's not saying that the player is bad, it's just that skill isn't involved at all in certain classes when played a certain way that annoys the hell out of everybody (name one person who doesn't mind getting beat by an invoker with constant freeze>xspam while other classes have to constantly use other skills in order to kill). Invokers can play fine without the constant lock of freeze>xspam>frog etc, but most players choose not to which is why people complain bout the rigged class advantage... Most classes have their own ridiculous lock yet most players don't use em, the reason why? Because the classes' potential without the locks is still ridiculous. Also, by saying "what only matters is the end result" in this game is a cheap thought; x spam the whole time in order to win? Please even pallies and Sentinels have to "work" even if they're rigged as hell.

 

And honestly, nowadays, there's no such thing as a PRO invoker. Obviously my view is extremely biased but it's reasonable


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#121 noxis

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:04 AM

hm... invokers are so easy to kill its hilarious. in a bsq situation just lock them (air lock, ground lock, freeze, combo lock) i think if you find them hard to kill or hard to play against you guys are doing something wrong. magnet cant hold anyone smart enough to get counter it (blink, mspd, dash jump timing, stumble, pally lock, sleep, barb, penguin, fire emblem, time freeze, snipe with aspd, the list goes on). timing on using your skill is dependent on the player. if you aren't fast enough or smart enough to counter barb or frog that follows through after magnet then that's on you, just like when you get pally air locked and use air recovery too early only to be followed by another spin and wheel then that's your mistake.  

 

most people forget that a lot of experienced invokers practice timing in their combos for their locks so of course they know their combos better than any of you who have classes that have low cool downs and can button mash. this is not street fighter.   unlike a pally lock that can seriously just mash three buttons together and get infinite lock, invokers have to time everything properly (their locks are also based on % chance not definite like pally locks or fire emblem etc.)  

 

i think this is why mag is saying that most of you guys are just raging on them without any definite experience in playing them. 

 

how many of you can honestly say that you can beat any of the top invokers (vex, anrietta, whoever else deserves to be on here) if you kept your elements and they didnt? mind you, with a +20 z staff x spam without elements reduces to 50-80 dmg per hit and i dont even think vex uses element rings 90% of the time just cards.  

 

.... i didn't think so.  as it is right now invokers are only on the top because of the recent evade nerf and element damage, however once element damage is fixed what will you guys complain about next? why not just have everyone have the same skills?


Edited by noxis, 08 July 2013 - 09:44 AM.

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#122 StormHaven

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:21 AM

Invokers have gotten directly and indirectly majorly buffed pushing them from a class that required a lot of skill to play, to a class that doesn't.  Reversing some of the changes pushes them back into a player-skill based class.

 

Edit: This why there are no "pro" status ones left.  Classes like Overlords,Savages, Sorcerers will remain either Balanced or UP, classes like Sentinel,Ninja,Destroyer will always be balanced to overpowered, and  Invokers,Summoners,Dragoons will be considered near autowin classes because of their skill current skill sets/meta.  Fighters are still super buggy but they sit in balanced to overpowered.

 

edit: if it takes permanent locking to kill a class is that class easy to kill then? Any player and class is hilariously easy to kill if you perma lock them.


Edited by StormHaven, 08 July 2013 - 09:44 AM.

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#123 Coolsam

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

hm... invokers are so easy to kill its hilarious. in a bsq situation just lock them (air lock, ground lock, freeze, combo lock) i think if you find them hard to kill or hard to play against you guys are doing something wrong. magnet cant hold anyone smart enough to get counter it (blink, mspd, dash jump timing, stumble, pally lock, sleep, barb, penguin, fire emblem, time freeze, snipe with aspd, the list goes on). timing on using your skill is dependent on the player. if you aren't fast enough or smart enough to counter barb or frog that follows through after magnet then that's on you, just like when you get pally air locked and use air recovery too early only to be followed by another spin and wheel then that's your mistake.  

 

most people forget that a lot of experienced invokers practice timing in their combos for their locks so of course they know their combos better than any of you who have classes that have low cool downs and can button mash. this is not street fighter.   unlike a pally lock that can seriously just mash three buttons together and get infinite lock, invokers have to time everything properly (their locks are also based on % chance not definite like pally locks or fire emblem etc.)  

 

i think this is why mag is saying that most of you guys are just raging on them without any definite experience in playing them. 

 

how many of you can honestly say that you can beat any of the top invokers (vex, anrietta, poc, whoever else deserves to be on here) if you kept your elements and they didnt? mind you, with a +20 z staff x spam without elements reduces to 50-80 dmg per hit and i dont even think vex uses element rings 90% of the time just cards.  

 

.... i didn't think so.  as it is right now invokers are only on the top because of the recent evade nerf and element damage, however once element damage is fixed what will you guys complain about next? why not just have everyone have the same skills?

 

I've played Priests. a +9 Ice Staff outdamages a +20 magma vs the same near max-defense Perma-capped 50 Paladin (And the priest is perma-capped 50 as well).

 

Not to mention Barbarian and Frog ignored evade before any nerf to evade. Also Barbarian hits without any warning and many priest skills can still succeed in casting even when damaged. Also I am not complaining about Invokers in any pvp sense. If an invoker infinite-locks me as soon as they catch I'll do the same.

 

Also did you really just mention poc of all invokers?? Nevermind that. Once Element resistance is fixed the only real issue in a Battlesquare sense only is the use of heals to stall out for them. But a element damage fix cripples their damage as it is.
 


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#124 noxis

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:50 AM

no idea what you're talking about sammy


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#125 Rimmy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:52 AM

While it's true there are a few "skilled" invokers in the server, the vast majority are just element-x-spammers who are taking advantage of the way element damage sidesteps the damage-restriction nerfs on Double Shot and Diffusion Cannon. It's overpowered, plain and simple. Not saying I blame them, just saying that any invoker who thinks he/she is "pro" solely based on the fact that they can kill people in a few seconds using Barbarian and x-spam is delusional.

 

I've played as a monk/priest/invoker almost exclusively and almost non-stop since the original open beta on the THQ*ICE server. Not saying that "makes me better" than anyone else, but I think it certainly gives my perspective a bit more weight than most. I've seen and experienced the evolution of this class first-hand since its early days, and I've seen its highs and lows. This isn't the first time the class has been targeted for being "OP," and more than likely it won't be the last.

 

At any rate, once the developers get around to addressing the issues with element damage, I suspect you'll see a big dip in the invoker population.

 

When Spark Rock was practically a locking skill by itself and Magnet was introduced, there was a considerable jump in the number of invokers in the server b/c all of a sudden the previously underpowered class (this was long before the Barbarian and Witch's Curse buffs) was a force to be reckoned with. But then the developers nerfed Spark Rock so it didn't lock anymore, drastically decreased the range and frequency of Magnet pulls, and placed limiters on x-spam damage in PvP, and many players abandoned the class again.

 

The class got a bit of a boost with the Barbarian/Witch's Curse buffs, but most casual players couldn't be bothered to figure out the timing and skill-tree-shenanigans necessary to pull off "infinite" locks and take full advantage of the buffs, so while the population increased a bit it was limited to those who were willing to take the time to learn and explore the finer points. Now, however, thanks to element damage, just about anyone with half a brain and a decent computer/connection wants to play an invoker (especially in BSQ) b/c the damage potential of the class simply cannot be matched when it is outfitted correctly. Element damage effectively removed the need to learn how to keep a combo going as an invoker in most situations (most enemies won't outlast your initial x-spam barrage the first time you catch them if you're geared properly), so now just about anyone can play the class and make it look easy/pro.

 

To put it bluntly, what passes as a "pro invoker" today typically isn't really comparable to what was considered a "pro invoker" a few years ago. They're two completely different beasts, it's like comparing apples and oranges. There was a time when the class was truly more about being a "support" class -- assisting teammates in group PvP and pulling off clutch heals or interrupts to keep them alive, or using Quagmire/Witch's Curse to divide and conquer opponents in a strategic fashion -- but nowadays pretty much every invoker (yours truly included) is geared almost exclusively for offense, simply because that's the smartest way to play (at least, until the class gets nerfed again).


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