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#126 Kazra

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

y u so op rim

http://4stor.com/yKvZI


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#127 Rimmy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

Dat not op it hax


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#128 Kazra

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:29 AM

wowa wat a hax0r nerf plx

 

did this game become any less p2w?


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#129 StormHaven

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

typical Jona


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#130 neberhax

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

 

To put it bluntly, what passes as a "pro invoker" today typically isn't really comparable to what was considered a "pro invoker" a few years ago.

 

You would expect it to take more to be considered a good pvper as years pass.

Weird tendencies right here :P


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#131 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:43 AM

Yeah Jona.

 

Typical typical

 

Jona.

 

Spoiler


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#132 Rimmy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

wowa wat a hax0r nerf plx

 

did this game become any less p2w?

Sort of. If you have element damage you can www pretty easily against anyone. It's more or less about who catches who first, now.

 

You would expect it to take more to be considered a good pvper as years pass.

Weird tendencies right here :P

Elements. Single worst change for PvP in this game since its inception, IMO.


Edited by Rimmy, 08 July 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#133 neberhax

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

Elements. Single worst change for PvP in this game since its inception, IMO.

 

Since there is probably a group of pvp'ers who have enough pvp expierience to understand the "ethical" do's and dont's of pvp...

Isn't there some kind of uhm... unwritten rule not to use element attack (or at least not excessive) in matches between these players?

 

Im not gonna say there should be some skill restrictions, cus no-rule pvp is definitely your thing, but If you guys are struggling with the element att problem, i bet a small group of active pvpers can have it set for their matches. That should stop some 1 combo problems.

 

Any player with heart for pvp would probably want to see more excitement in pvp returned.


Edited by neberhax, 08 July 2013 - 12:32 PM.

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#134 Rimmy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:07 PM

Since there is probably a group of pvp'ers who have enough pvp expierience to understand the "ethical" do's and dont's of pvp...

Isn't there some kind of uhm... unwritten rule not to use element attack (or at least not excessive) in matches between these players?

 

Im not gonna say there should be some skill restrictions, cus no-rule pvp is definitely your thing, but If you guys are struggling with the element att problem, i bet a small group of active pvpers can have it set for their matches. That should stop some 1 combo problems.

 

Any player with heart for pvp would probably want to see more excitement in pvp returned.

 

Oh, we have some generally-agreed-upon community skill restrictions. No heals in regular PvP matches, for instance. And in most cases nowadays, invokers will agree not to use Lightning Magnet in regular PvP matches. Although we definitely have fewer restrictions than most of the other servers I've ever visited.

 

And honestly, as much as I want to agree with you about limiting element attack, I feel it's kind of unfair to expect players to severely gimp themselves that way since most of the time when someone has massive element attack, it's socketed on their best gear, and asking them to remove some of it is like asking them to play with a handicap. If I'm PvPing someone, I want to be PvPing them at their best, which means either naked PvP or best-gear PvP.

 

I personally feel that some of the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment is removed if you start asking players to handicap themselves by taking away all the fruits of their labor. Most of the players who have that high element attack have worked very hard to achieve it, and what's the point of all of that work if you're only going to use it occasionally?

 

What I don't get is why so many players spend hours upon hours stacking their characters as much as possible, but only use those characters for BSQ or EW. I don't understand the point of putting that much time, effort, gold/IM/souls/etc. into a character and then just standing around in PoW all day. Why not PvP more frequently in regular 1v1 or team matches? Sigh.

 

I know this might not be the case for everyone, but I don't really mind losing to someone with better gear too much. Makes it that much more satisfying when I manage to pull off a win in spite of the gear imbalance. I just see it as an extra challenge. Honestly, I don't think I've ever met a player I felt I couldn't beat eventually if I practiced long and hard enough. I get trounced pretty bad sometimes (most recently, usually in matches involving elements), but who cares. I'd rather be PvPing and losing than not getting the chance to PvP at all. With the PvP lobby as dead as it is most times in our server, I'm thankful for whatever matches I can get.

 

I'll admit that elements has taken the gear imbalance to a whole new level, though. I like a challenge, but when it comes to 1-combo kills with elements, it kinda feels like a waste of time because it simply becomes a game of who can his/her opponent first. It can be exciting on some level, but it's short-lived and you don't really get the opportunity to practice combos and strategies very much.


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#135 Apocryphos

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

I faced a couple of priests with the heal restrictions removed though I used yggdrasil leaves, the matched turned out to be alot more interesting catching became harder for the priest instead of 1 catch 1 kill we were able to come out and try to catch each other more than once. my abilty to almost 1 combo them gave them a reason to heal.


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#136 ohsnap

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. The whole point of restricting/reducing some combos in pvp is to make it FAIR for the other player who don't have that kind of advantage in their classes. Invokers literally require no skill if they play the way you mentioned; smacking them with an x atk lols. All the other classes have their own ridiculous skills and combos too; Grenadier's sniper, warriors insane amount of lockdown(also capable of locks)/aerial moves and damage, etc. I do agree with you that other servers have their own styles but that doesn't remove the fact that the "fairness" factor shouldn't be added. I'm guessing you're one of the players that actually performs those kinds of "combos" as well just from looking at what you typed

 

"It's fun and a bonus if you can end it with a move to taunt your opponent like smacking them with an x atk or something"

 

Of course you would find it fun if you're the one doing it. I'm pretty sure that if you're caught in the same combo trap as well then you would also find it unfair and annoying as hell. 

Ppl say one class requires no skills but its really one class requires more skill than the other. If you have a invoker mirror match with the same balances and one beats the other does that make them equally skilled? The addition of elements no matter how broken gave everyone a fighting chance its just that ppl start using it unethically. That goes to say that "pvp ethics" in games like bsq were never implied cause ppl would then have no reason to stack their characters like making lvl 50s and dominating on one side or healing in pvp. 

Like I mention I standardize skill as BEING the person putting your opponent in that "combo trap" position if you can't dodge or you can't catch your opponent who's problem is it? 

 

Also judging from what you're posting you're not talking about "ethical" pvp matches if a warrior is locking you. Not to mention you snipers have practically an almost insane x atk that can cause flinching as well. 

 

@ Rim sure they have the 8k+ x atk I'm talking about how ever since the introduction of chain combos. SInce the other servers already had these changes before us we never really knew how effective chain combos were until ppl from other servers migrated. Back then ppl use to complain how their x atk slowed down ever since chain combos came in little did they know how OP it made invokers giving the, a flinchable x atk and a z atk that gives super armor. Invokers weren't that much of a problem even with magnet because they didn't have great and an unpunishable source of dps besides their awakening till the introduction of chain combos with elements. 


Edited by ohsnap, 10 July 2013 - 06:57 AM.

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#137 StormHaven

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:53 AM

There's nothing a Dragoon/Paladin can do that won't be counted as lock, the entire skill tree of that class are locking skills, also the majority of the time people making those perma characters only do it because A. It's cheaper, B. The class their playing has the most advantage at that level. Perma PvP characters are made to abuse the PvP at w/e level.


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#138 ohsnap

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:07 AM

There's nothing a Dragoon/Paladin can do that won't be counted as lock, the entire skill tree of that class are locking skills, also the majority of the time people making those perma characters only do it because A. It's cheaper, B. The class their playing has the most advantage at that level. Perma PvP characters are made to abuse the PvP at w/e level.

Combos aren't suppose to be escapable otherwise the combo counter wouldn't count those moves in one combo. It's just that warriors have access to locking moves that make combos easier to pull off. If you ask a person new to fight you and they are getting hit by one warrior combo they'll call it a lock. Heck if you're an pf using wolf rush->aas->shootdown->aas they actually call lock. There's a difference between locking and comboing. Since you already know that your class has a disadvantage over the other wouldn't it be up to you to be the person avoiding all these atks or catching your opponent so you can combo them. That's why I put so much emphasis in the fact that skill lies in catching and avoid in this game not having flashy combos. If you have a class disadvantage and you beat your opponent in gear balanced game that's a "good" or at least skilled pvper. Combos aren't hard, catching is...


Edited by ohsnap, 10 July 2013 - 07:10 AM.

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#139 StormHaven

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:15 AM

Combos aren't suppose to be escapable otherwise the combo counter wouldn't count those moves in one combo. It's just that warriors have access to locking moves that make combos easier to pull off. If you ask a person new to fight you and they are getting hit by one warrior combo they'll call it a lock. Heck if you're an pf using wolf rush->aas->shootdown->aas they actually call lock. There's a difference between locking and comboing. Since you already know that your class has a disadvantage over the other wouldn't it be up to you to be the person avoiding all these atks or catching your opponent so you can combo them. That's why I put so much emphasis in the fact that skill lies in catching and avoid in this game not having flashy combos. If you have a class disadvantage and you beat your opponent in gear balanced game that's a "good" or at least skilled pvper. Combos aren't hard, catching is...

 

normal X spam (not chain combos) is counted as a combo by the combo counter so yea... If combos aren't supposed to be inescapable then Archers have no combos at all even AAS spam can be broken by Cutdown from warriors/thieves,and meteor from mages.

 

edit: In my own opinion a combo is a chain of skills that leave your opponent a chance fight back/get out of  consistently(such as rolling away,ARing out, using a skill to push or cc you back) . A lock will consistently leave your opponent unable to fight back/move  at all meaning.

 

edit 2: If I were to across the map at the beginning of a match Wolf(the longest range truth launch in the game)->AAS spam until they're dead and do that over and over, does that mean I'm the best PvPer because i can always catch and kill my opponent giving them no chance to fight back?


Edited by StormHaven, 10 July 2013 - 07:24 AM.

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#140 ohsnap

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

normal X spam (not chain combos) is counted as a combo by the combo counter so yea... If combos aren't supposed to be inescapable then Archers have no combos at all even AAS spam can be broken by Cutdown from warriors/thieves,and meteor from mages.

 

edit: In my own opinion a combo is a chain of skills that leave your opponent a chance fight back/get out of  consistently(such as rolling away,ARing out, using a skill to push or cc you back) . A lock will consistently leave your opponent unable to fight back/move  at all meaning.

I'm talking about when you're actually in a consistent combo. Say you escape and they hit you again it starts a new combo in the combo counter. One whole combo should not be escapable otherwise the counter would reset. Take fighting games like street fighter for example. There are no locks there but chaining a bunch of moves with the combo counter still counting after the first hit is landed makes the next chain of moves unavoidable unless the combo is dropped. It's because ppl always get the notion that a combo is only something that classes like warriors have because they have lock moves. But if you get 3 hits with x atk and its says 3 on the combo counter thats still a combo no matter how u look at it. And while that combo counter is counting and you get hit thus breaking your combo thats the end of a combo. I'm saying at the occurrence of your combo if you want it to be even considered a combo it shouldn't just be 1 stray hit and the person escapes unless you would  consider 1 hit  to be a combo by all means pvp someone by just hitting them with one move then kindly walk back and do it again. If you can win a match like that that's even more skilled of you than I thought. 

 

edit: it's pretty much defined that aas spamming them to death is locking? Unless you define a combo to be using one inescapeable skill to get a kill then yea. Also if you are able to consistently catch your opponent and catch them with wolf rush throughout a whole match and follow with aas I would actually applaud you. 


Edited by ohsnap, 10 July 2013 - 07:48 AM.

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#141 Nhat

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:38 AM

ooh this seems fun to talk about I'll make a list of the top pvper in my opinion

Destroyer- Sheol and Cyndres

Sentinel- Thuy and Hifumi

Savage- Toyzter and  LionHeart

Ninja- Yurai and kimimaro

Dragoon- odyssea, xandiel and funky 

Overlord- miyakozuka and istabboys

sorcerer- lionheart and akyrie

Invoker- rim, shuzelin and ImDiene 


Edited by Nhat, 10 July 2013 - 07:44 AM.

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#142 StormHaven

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

I don't think you're getting it, Any class can combo certain classes combos will always/consistently be counted as locks, hench less skill is needed to play them


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#143 ohsnap

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

I don't think you're getting it, Any class can combo certain classes combos will always/consistently be counted as locks, hench less skill is needed to play them

Whether a combo is more consistent than the other getting 2-3 different moves even if its not like pallies being able to get 8 moves in one combo chain is still a combo. However ppl are concentrating too much on their combo arsenal or one class being able to combo better than the other so I'm not gonna bother with this combo dispute anymore since it's controversial regardless. 

But point is this whole game the skills aren't about the different moves you can chain but being able to land them and avoid them ofc one class takes more skill than the other because one class has better combos than the other but say you have a combo that can kill the opponent the real skill comes down to being able to land that one hit and being able to avoid getting hit by it. The topic ask for good pvpers that's what I feel a good pvper someone who catches and avoids their opponents well. 


Edited by ohsnap, 10 July 2013 - 08:17 AM.

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#144 noxis

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

what if you forego all the what ifs in terms of skill combos etc. and just count who can win (if they choose to).  who stands above then?


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#145 Rabbicarpo2011

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:02 AM

what if you forego all the what ifs in terms of skill combos etc. and just count who can win (if they choose to).  who stands above then?

you mean including gear?


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#146 necoconeco

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:11 PM

Oh my god I'm blushing....please.....do go on :3

 

ah, memories................... :archer:

 

one for the road  :chomok04:  :chomok03:  :chomok02:  :chomok01:  :Emo_12:  :Emo_13:  :Emo_14:  


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#147 noxis

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:28 PM

edit: it's pretty much defined that aas spamming them to death is locking? Unless you define a combo to be using one inescapeable skill to get a kill then yea. Also if you are able to consistently catch your opponent and catch them with wolf rush throughout a whole match and follow with aas I would actually applaud you. 

 

That actually depends a lot on connectivity strength of both players to the server.


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